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ethereality
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It appears you are misnomering remarkable human endeavors as “miracles”. Meeting new people and learning their languages is not miraculous.
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Why doesn't the Holy Spirit enable Christians to 'speak in tongues' at gatherings?
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
This is ridiculous. Time spent at the Holy Father’s General Audience is not “wasted”; the people there are anxious to see the Holy Father and whether they understand what he is saying or not, they are mostly happy to just be there in the vicinity of him. They also can (and do) pray or something else (like read Magnificat magazine or a pocket missal) while they are “waiting”. Many of them have already been waiting several hours for him to just come out, because they had to arrive early in order to get everybody through the security.most of the time wasted insofar as everyone waited for someone to speak in a language they understood.
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mbmulkern
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I can translate the Nipo His no
I don’t speak Portuguese and I have never studied it but I have a feeling this is what it says:
Nippo Jisho
A vocabulary of the language of Japan (Nipo jisho) and a dictionary of Japanese Portuguese the first to translate Japanese to an occidental language.
It was compiled by Portuguese Jesuit missionaries and published in Nagasaki Japan in 1603. It explains 3200 words in Japanese translated for the Portuguese. It contains a verse translated to Spanish from 1630 and another to French from 1869.
I don’t speak Portuguese and I have never studied it but I have a feeling this is what it says:
Nippo Jisho
A vocabulary of the language of Japan (Nipo jisho) and a dictionary of Japanese Portuguese the first to translate Japanese to an occidental language.
It was compiled by Portuguese Jesuit missionaries and published in Nagasaki Japan in 1603. It explains 3200 words in Japanese translated for the Portuguese. It contains a verse translated to Spanish from 1630 and another to French from 1869.
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adgloriam
Guest
John15:5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.misnomering remarkable human endeavors as “miracles”
John15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
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Mintaka
Guest
The information came from the testimonies collected for his canonization process. An Indian man whose Christian name was Emanuel Fernandez testified, that at a time when Xavier was having great difficulty learning the language, he was called upon to speak at a merchant’s meeting in the port town of Virandeptanani. Xavier spoke, and Fernandez was astonished to hear him speak the local language so well. Afterward, however, the other merchants who spoke different languages were all convinced that they had also heard him speak in their native Asian tongues.
A man named Thomas Vaz, also an Indian, testified that he had heard that the same thing happened when Xavier fell into an ecstasy while saying Mass at the port of Tevanapatani Coromandelli: people who spoke all different languages heard him speaking in their own native tongues.
There are some stories that this happened in China, Japan, and various Indies islands as well, but these stories are not as well-documented. The occurrences were sporadic, and he still had to learn languages for himself with a lot of hard work.
Modern biographers don’t usually talk about this, because Xavier didn’t mention any of this in his letters and reports home. But he doesn’t seem to have mentioned most of the miracles associated with his mission work, and everybody who knew him said that he was doing miracles all the time. Maybe he just didn’t think it was relevant, since it wasn’t anything he had under his control.
(And it took a long time for modern biographers to admit that St. Vincent de Paul really did get kidnapped and enslaved by pirates, and they did have documents in his own hand about that. St. John Bosco wrote about the miraculous dog Il Grigio in his autobiography, but modern biographies usually leave that out, too, much less the other miracles associated with his work. Modern biographers like to keep things boring.)
A man named Thomas Vaz, also an Indian, testified that he had heard that the same thing happened when Xavier fell into an ecstasy while saying Mass at the port of Tevanapatani Coromandelli: people who spoke all different languages heard him speaking in their own native tongues.
There are some stories that this happened in China, Japan, and various Indies islands as well, but these stories are not as well-documented. The occurrences were sporadic, and he still had to learn languages for himself with a lot of hard work.
Modern biographers don’t usually talk about this, because Xavier didn’t mention any of this in his letters and reports home. But he doesn’t seem to have mentioned most of the miracles associated with his mission work, and everybody who knew him said that he was doing miracles all the time. Maybe he just didn’t think it was relevant, since it wasn’t anything he had under his control.
(And it took a long time for modern biographers to admit that St. Vincent de Paul really did get kidnapped and enslaved by pirates, and they did have documents in his own hand about that. St. John Bosco wrote about the miraculous dog Il Grigio in his autobiography, but modern biographies usually leave that out, too, much less the other miracles associated with his work. Modern biographers like to keep things boring.)
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ethereality
Guest
Yeah, that doesn’t make sense to me, either. He’s the bishop of Rome, and he’s supposed to guide the bishops if there’s a disagreement. I don’t see reason to wait hours to see him, etc. Sure, he’s a great guy, but so is my own bishop. I like seeing him when he comes by, but I don’t see reason to spend money to see him, or wait hours to do so.
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adgloriam
Guest
You don’t actually “see” much do you???I don’t see reason
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Mintaka
Guest
You don’t have to pay anything to go to a general audience. You have to get tickets ahead of time, but the tickets are free; the only reason they have them is so they’ll know how many people are coming, and to keep within the fire codes when they are holding audiences indoors.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The Catholics who would go to a Papal audience for the most part revere the Pope. Many if not most of them do not live in Rome or even anywhere close to it. It is a once-in-a-lifetime experience to see and be in the presence of the Holy Father who, like I said, they revere as the Vicar of Christ on Earth. They are extremely excited about this, just as they would be about seeing their favorite celebrity from the sports or entertainment world. That is why they are down there going through the metal detectors before dawn and sitting out for hours in St. Peter’s Square (when I went, it was raining, so people were sitting out for 2-3 hours in the rain) to get a good seat.
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ethereality
Guest
Interesting. Where did you learn this? Please cite sources. I wonder how we can be sure it isn’t pious legend developing over centuries; miraculous legends about the Buddha have also developed. Recently I borrowed a book from a Japanese children’s library saying how the Buddha was so great that even beasts respected and honored him, telling how a (wild) monkey went and got a bowl, put rice in it, and brought it to him, and similarly collected fruit off a tree for him, offering it with homage.
Seems to me that the story originated in someone’s pet being trained to do a nice trick when he came to some village, and it grew over years of retelling to the point where it became a wild animal doing such things and with added human characteristics. Seems likewise here that perhaps St. Xavier said a few phrases, or memorized some statements in advance in multiple languages, and then in retelling the story others misunderstand the story to be one statement heard simultaneously in multiple different languages, etc.
Seems to me that the story originated in someone’s pet being trained to do a nice trick when he came to some village, and it grew over years of retelling to the point where it became a wild animal doing such things and with added human characteristics. Seems likewise here that perhaps St. Xavier said a few phrases, or memorized some statements in advance in multiple languages, and then in retelling the story others misunderstand the story to be one statement heard simultaneously in multiple different languages, etc.
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ethereality
Guest
I was referring to tourists who spend money to pilgrimage at Rome. For example, Catholic Answers frequently hosts cruises for their wealthy listeners …
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ethereality
Guest
I come here to ask questions and learn new things, not to simply express agreement. Of course people say true things now and then, but I’m more interested in what I don’t understand than what I already agree with.
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ethereality
Guest
Thank you for elaborating, but as I said, that makes no sense to me. It would be better instead to explain what motivates such reverence. I wouldn’t even do that to see musicians I like, who have substantially improved my quality of life, unlike Pope Francis, who just seem to say obviously true things — “be nice to people” — and generate American political controversy.
Nor would I do that to see the politicians who actually govern my life, as I can call and email their offices instead.
Nor would I do that to see the politicians who actually govern my life, as I can call and email their offices instead.
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