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Roseeurekacross
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For some light comedy relief, you guys do, his name is trump and he was just offered a gold dunny
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brian_custer
Guest
OK, what exactly is a primate?
i’ve never heard of that title in the US catholic church
i wont go down the road of what a “primate” is in a zoo
i am not being disrespectful
i guess you could title an altar server “Admiral Lord of the Ocean Sea”
i’ve never heard of that title in the US catholic church
i wont go down the road of what a “primate” is in a zoo
i am not being disrespectful
i guess you could title an altar server “Admiral Lord of the Ocean Sea”
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twf
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There isn’t a primate in the US Church. That was the OP’s question: why not?
The Primate is the bishop of the see that ranks first in honour in a particular country. It’s often the oldest see in the region. The Archbishop of Quebec is Primate of Canada because Quebec was the first see established in what is now Canada (actually it was the first established north of Mexico for that matter).
The Archbishop of Santo Domingo is the Primate of the Americas because his was the first see established in the New World.
It doesn’t carry any special jurisdiction over the region, but it gives that bishop a special honour as “first among equals”.
The Primate is the bishop of the see that ranks first in honour in a particular country. It’s often the oldest see in the region. The Archbishop of Quebec is Primate of Canada because Quebec was the first see established in what is now Canada (actually it was the first established north of Mexico for that matter).
The Archbishop of Santo Domingo is the Primate of the Americas because his was the first see established in the New World.
It doesn’t carry any special jurisdiction over the region, but it gives that bishop a special honour as “first among equals”.
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phil19034
Guest
There are a few reasons:
TYPICALLY, the primate is located in the Capital, first Archdiocese, or most important city.
When the United States was created, the entire United States was part of the Diocese of Baltimore (which was created as an Apostolic Prefecture in 1784 and promoted to a Diocese in 1789. Then, in 1808 Baltimore was broken up in the Dioceses of Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Bardstown, KY (moved to Louisville, KY in 1841); while promoting what was left of Baltimore to the first Archdiocese.
So Baltimore was the first Archdiocese and the Archdiocese of Baltimore was home to Washington, DC. Plus, it still the largest diocese in the United States.
But Baltimore wasn’t the most important American city. Philadelphia was always bigger than Baltimore, and it didn’t take long for New York to become a big city too.
Until 1847, the Archbishop of Baltimore was the defacto primate of the United States because he was the only Archbishop.
But in 1847, St. Louis was promoted to an Archdiocese
In 1850 the following Sees were promoted to Archdioceses:
So, after the First Plenary Council of Baltimore (1852), there were 7 Archbishops (one being New York - which was already a much more important & larger city)
The American Bishops were asking many things from Rome, which caused the Archbishop of Baltimore to receive a warning from Rome, cautioning about making it seem that America was becoming an “national Church”
And all of this was happening while the United States was still considered Mission territory.
Anyway, the Americans asked to make Baltimore the primate city, and it was not approved (nor rejected) by Rome. The Pope simply “tabled” it. Perhaps, because of the growing Americanism heresy. Then, later, Cardinal Gibbon (Archbishop of Baltimore) would become the leader of Americanism, which the Pope would speak out about.
So my GUESS is that America was never granted a primate because (1) America was mission territory, then (2) later it was feared that their Americanism could spread to other nations if America was granted a primate. Finally, (3) when the National Conference was up and running (America had the first Bishop’s conference world wide), the American Bishops liked voting for a President vs. having the Pope select their leader.
TYPICALLY, the primate is located in the Capital, first Archdiocese, or most important city.
When the United States was created, the entire United States was part of the Diocese of Baltimore (which was created as an Apostolic Prefecture in 1784 and promoted to a Diocese in 1789. Then, in 1808 Baltimore was broken up in the Dioceses of Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Bardstown, KY (moved to Louisville, KY in 1841); while promoting what was left of Baltimore to the first Archdiocese.
So Baltimore was the first Archdiocese and the Archdiocese of Baltimore was home to Washington, DC. Plus, it still the largest diocese in the United States.
But Baltimore wasn’t the most important American city. Philadelphia was always bigger than Baltimore, and it didn’t take long for New York to become a big city too.
Until 1847, the Archbishop of Baltimore was the defacto primate of the United States because he was the only Archbishop.
But in 1847, St. Louis was promoted to an Archdiocese
In 1850 the following Sees were promoted to Archdioceses:
- New York
- Cincinnati
- New Orleans
- Oregon City, OR (eventually closed and moved to Portland)
So, after the First Plenary Council of Baltimore (1852), there were 7 Archbishops (one being New York - which was already a much more important & larger city)
The American Bishops were asking many things from Rome, which caused the Archbishop of Baltimore to receive a warning from Rome, cautioning about making it seem that America was becoming an “national Church”
And all of this was happening while the United States was still considered Mission territory.
Anyway, the Americans asked to make Baltimore the primate city, and it was not approved (nor rejected) by Rome. The Pope simply “tabled” it. Perhaps, because of the growing Americanism heresy. Then, later, Cardinal Gibbon (Archbishop of Baltimore) would become the leader of Americanism, which the Pope would speak out about.
So my GUESS is that America was never granted a primate because (1) America was mission territory, then (2) later it was feared that their Americanism could spread to other nations if America was granted a primate. Finally, (3) when the National Conference was up and running (America had the first Bishop’s conference world wide), the American Bishops liked voting for a President vs. having the Pope select their leader.
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phil19034
Guest
The article in slightly incorrect about one thing. While the Archbishop of Baltimore is not the official Primate of the United States, he is given precedence over all other non-Cardinal bishops.
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phil19034
Guest
Well, this isn’t true everywhere.
In some nations, the Primate is the automatic president of the national bishop’s conference. In some nations, they do not have elections, the primate is the automatic chair.
And “primacy” has to do with liturgical events. The Archbishop of Quebec always has primacy over all non-Cardinal bishops at national liturgies (other than the host bishop) or Cardinals.
In the United States, while we do not have an official primate, the Archbishop of Baltimore is the unofficial primate, and he has precedence over all non-Cardinal bishops in the US.
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twf
Guest
Yes, primacy in Liturgy would be part of the “primacy of honour” that I referred to. It isn’t a primacy of jurisdiction.
Could you give an example of a country where the Primate automatically chairs the national episcopal conference? I find that interesting as its closer to the more traditional model of national synods. Certainly in the Eastern Churches the Primate (whether he be a patriarch or metropolitan) presides over the Synod.
Could you give an example of a country where the Primate automatically chairs the national episcopal conference? I find that interesting as its closer to the more traditional model of national synods. Certainly in the Eastern Churches the Primate (whether he be a patriarch or metropolitan) presides over the Synod.
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phil19034
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England & Wales for one. The Archbishop of Westminster is the Primate of England & Wales and is always the president
Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales
“Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales” is the Conference of Bishops of England, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Jersey, Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha and Wales. The President is Cardinal Vincent Gerard Nichols, elected in 2009.
www.gcatholic.org
Irish Episcopal Conference
The Archbishop of Armagh is always the president
Irish Catholic Bishops’ Conference
“Irish Catholic Bishops’ Conference” is the Conference of Bishops of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The President is Archbishop Eamon Martin, elected in 2014.
www.gcatholic.org
Belgium
The Archbishop of Mechelen–Brussel is the Primate of Belgium and always the president
Archdiocese of Mechelen–Brussels, Belgium 🇧🇪
The metropolitan archbishop is Archbishop Luc Terlinden, appointed on 22 June 2023.
www.gcatholic.org
And in Scotland, an interesting note: the presidency seems to rotate between the two archbishops.
http://www.gcatholic.org/dioceses/country/QS.htm
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twf
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The Archbishop of Westminster definitely ranks “first” among the Catholic bishops of England and Wales, but does he actually have the title of “Primate”? Out of ecumenical sensitivity, I’m pretty sure that title is reserved for the Anglican Archbishops of Canterbury and York.
Interesting all the same. Thanks.
Interesting all the same. Thanks.
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BartholomewB
Guest
EWTN once gave a brief answer to the question of whether Baltimore is the primatial see in the U,S.
http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage_print.asp?number=400561&language=en
http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage_print.asp?number=400561&language=en
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poche
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The primatial see of the United States is Baltimore.
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commenter
Guest
Primates were generally created at a time when communications and transportation were far more difficult. America was a late starter having any hierarchy at all, and was technically mission territory until around WWI.
In some ways the Archbishop of Baltimore has been a little like primate of honor, being the first see. For many years there was one archbishop covering both Baltimore and Washington. Washington has become a see city far more prominent than the size of its Catholic population, because so much of our life is now centered around Washington, sadly.
Because of NY City’s prominence, especially in the media, the Archbishop of NY has been kinda, sorta, like the primate. Until the creation of the Military Ordinariate a few decades ago, he was also in charge of Catholic service for the military. Cardinal Spellman was nicknamed “America’s Pope”.
In some ways the Archbishop of Baltimore has been a little like primate of honor, being the first see. For many years there was one archbishop covering both Baltimore and Washington. Washington has become a see city far more prominent than the size of its Catholic population, because so much of our life is now centered around Washington, sadly.
Because of NY City’s prominence, especially in the media, the Archbishop of NY has been kinda, sorta, like the primate. Until the creation of the Military Ordinariate a few decades ago, he was also in charge of Catholic service for the military. Cardinal Spellman was nicknamed “America’s Pope”.
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phil19034
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Well… you might be right.
The Archdiocese of Westminster has the title as “Primatial See of England and Wales” but as far as I can tell, the title is not used by Archbishop - just the Archdiocese.
But regardless, the Archbishop of Westminster is always the President of the Bishop’s Conference in England & Wales.
Archdiocese of Westminster, England 🏴
The metropolitan archbishop is Cardinal Vincent Gerard Nichols, appointed in 2009.
www.gcatholic.org
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Augustinian
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The necessary work gets done without someone being designated “Primate” here in America, so why make the designation?
Further, since “primate” is a homophone for a great ape here in America, there might be a downside to this as far as the people’s understanding.
Further, since “primate” is a homophone for a great ape here in America, there might be a downside to this as far as the people’s understanding.
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BartholomewB
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Yes, that’s an interesting point. In Spanish, for instance, the terms are different. I just tried this test on Google Translate, English into Spanish:
The chimpanzee is a primate. El chimpancé es un primate.
The archbishop is a primate. El arzobispo es un primado.
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anon65111186
Guest
The South Korean Catholic church is even stricter about parish registration than here, it’s super lax about it comparatively. One priest suggested you shouldn’t even receive the sacraments outside your 본당 registered parish to me one time.
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Maximilian75
Guest
This may be just be me being mildly racist, but I feel like SE asian society is so rigid and organized that this isint simply a SK Catholic thing, but a regional/cultural thing.
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BartholomewB
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At the other extreme, in Brazil, which is commonly described as “the world’s largest Catholic nation,” there’s no such thing as parish registration. All Catholic churches are open to everybody.
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anon65111186
Guest
Technically it has little to do with Southeast Asian society, it is an East Asian society like China and Japan, because it is right smack in the middle of those two countries.
It is rigid, but also has had historically very little influence from outside Catholicism. It was the only country in the world to not be evangelized by foreign missionaries, it was converted from within by Koreans, namely St. Kim Daegeon.
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twf
Guest
Canonically all Catholics are members of the parish that they live in…geographically speaking. Your geographical pastor has authority over you and a duty to you regardless of local customs around registration.
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