Why Does't Traditionalist Laity Promote Religious Life For Men?

[JReducation]

WHY DOESN’T THE LAITY PROMOTE RELIGIOUS LIFE FOR MEN?

I have read many posts on these threads about the need for priests. No one denies that, but it also seems that we have a need for men in religious life, consecrated men who live a vowed life in a community of prayer, penance, and the perfection of charity, austerity, contemplation, community living and living within the framework established by a religious founder.

Not every man is called to be a priest. But many men do not know the difference between the priesthood and religious life. Many people think that the priesthood is a form of religious life. WRONG! The priesthood is a sacrament. Priests can be secular men or religious.

But for the purpose of this thread, I’d like to focus on religious life for men who are not called to be priests. Such men are usually called Brothers. They may be monks, friars, or members of congregations.

We have four friars in our parish who are not priests. One of them is the superior of the house. He’s also a theologian and professor of theology at a local Catholic university. The others are Director of Religious Education, a pastoral counsellor and spiritual director, and the other is the parish’s go to guy. He can fix anything. They are very holy men. There are three other friars who are ordained.

But the beauty of this life is that all of them make the same vows of chastity, poverty and obedience. They live, work, pray, play, eat and do everything in community. They are an example of family life for the parish. They are also contemplatives. They spend a great many hours in prayer. Their lives belong completely to God. They are different from priests and lay people.

Their life is ruled by obedience above all things, by prayer, and by community living. Everything they do flows from this tripod of obedience, prayer and community life.

Sometimes I get the impression that the laity sees religious who are not ordained as men who “did not go all the way to the priesthood” as if religious life were a middle step between being a lay man and a priest, which it is not. It is very different. Sometimes I see laity defer to a priest over a religious brother, without any regard to what the Brother has to offer. Many of these men are not only well educated in church matters, religious studies and the spiritual life, but are very holy and make excellent role models.

The question is, does the laity place any value in the religious life for men or do we only want priests?

Men religious are a part of Church tradition and history that dates back to the Desert Fathers.

JR

 

[James0235]

WHY DOESN’T THE LAITY PROMOTE RELIGIOUS LIFE FOR MEN?

JR

Here is one example that comes to mind:
carmelitemonks.org/

They use the Traditional Carmelite Rite.

From the front page of the site:
**The Carmelite monk may aspire to be a lay brother or a priest who celebrates the Sacraments, gives spiritual direction, and preaches retreats to the monastery retreatants. Once mature in the spiritual life, a Carmelite monk may aspire to become a solitary hermit in the mountains, alone with the Alone. With a burning love of God and a missionary zeal for souls, the Carmelite monk immolates his life in the vows of obedience, chastity and poverty for the Holy Roman Catholic Church and the entire world.

James
**

 

[deigloriam]

I don’t think it is a matter of not promoting it. We need more (good) bishops, priests, monks, brothers, friars, nuns, sisters, etc. in the Church right now. (If we had 50,000 more sisters, just think what our hospitals and schools would be like - and how much more affordable for all Catholics).
I think the focus on priests comes from the fact that we need them for the sacraments. Without them, we are really up a creek spiritually.

 

[JReducation]

I don’t think it is a matter of not promoting it. We need more (good) bishops, priests, monks, brothers, friars, nuns, sisters, etc. in the Church right now. (If we had 50,000 more sisters, just think what our hospitals and schools would be like - and how much more affordable for all Catholics).
I think the focus on priests comes from the fact that we need them for the sacraments. Without them, we are really up a creek spiritually.

I fully agree that we ned the priests for the sacraments.

But just look at what you said, “if we had 50,000 more sisters”. Why not 50,000 more male religious?

Not all male religious want to be priests. Some young men feel the presure to be priests, when they really want to be religious.

We are seeing this in developing nations. They have hundreds of brothers making vows each year and new congregations of brothers coming up all the time. The difference is that the laity in the developing countries treats the Brothers with great respect and shows a real appreciation for their contribution. I think we lack this in the USA and Europe.

I often wonder if we’re more status oriented and see the priesthood as a sign of status. Just a thought. I can’t prove it.

JR

 

[consumedconvert]

Very interesting question. I have been in the habit of praying for our son to be a priest or religious if it’s within God’s will.

But all told, I agree with you that there is a lack of knowledge and emphasis about religious life. I agree that at least part of this is probably because people think in terms of status. But I also think part of this is due to a lack of visibility, at least in some areas. We have one friar in town that I know of, and I’ve never met him–he’s in a parish downtown I’ve never been to. The nearest male religious community I know of is forty miles away.

But Lord willing, I’ll be visiting soon!

 

[EasterJoy]

This isn’t just a traditionalist thing. I think the need for priests is so dire that perhaps those young men with a vocation to become a religious brother aren’t being encouraged as much as they should be. These are very different vocations.

On top of this, I think that encouraging men to consider whether they are called to become religious brothers, and not just priests, underlines the great value we place on the women who answer the call to become religious sisters. The religious life is not an “oh, well, if you can’t be a priest” vocation!

 

[Johndigger]

Priests are the building blocks of the Church. Once Holy Orthodox Priests start to get in place, other vocations will flow from there.

Of course, all vocations are in some way inter-related. More monks = more prayers = more priests. However, Christ chose Priests to be the first movers in the Church, the wonderful desert Fathers and the monastic life came later, once the Priesthood had “taken off” as it were.

With the Church taking such a massive hit over the last few decades, building back up vocations, starting with the Priesthood it seems to be what Christ intended (Judging very roughly by the amount of males discerning to the Priesthood, where this be religious or secular compared to being *just a monk or friar)

*As opposed to being Priest, also.

In Domino,

JD

 

[deigloriam]

But just look at what you said, “if we had 50,000 more sisters”. Why not 50,000 more male religious?

JR

I use that as the example as it was more common in this country. Would that we had thousands more men and women religious - cloistered, contemplative, teaching, in the hospitals, etc. We need our priests for the sacraments, but after that, we will need religious brothers and sisters to build and staff Catholic institutions. As we are seeing now in the schools, these great institutions just can’t work on such a large scale without “free” (not exactly, but for the sake of argument) labor. I dream of the days when we will once again will see legions of priests, brothers and sisters as we did 50 years ago. I’m young, so there is hope.

 

[JReducation]

I brought this up because I recently spoke with a Brother who was very hurt. He didn’t complain about it. He just stated what had happened, in a matter-of-fact manner, but I could see his face as he related the story.

He’s a friar and a theologian. In fact he has a STD from one of the Roman Universities. I’m not sure which one. His area of expertise is Spirituality. He told a story of someone who arrived at the parish office and asked if they could make an appointment for spiritual direction. The scretary said that they had a friar who is a spiritual director, but that he’s not a priest, just in case you need a priest.

The person said that they didn’t want to go to a Brother for spiritual direction, because they wanted a priest who knew what he was talking about.

Of course, the appointment was made to see a friar priest.

But I heard this story and I thought, “How rude and how ignorant. Our pastor has a seminary degree and is a great guy. But he’s not an expert on the soul as is this other friar.”

I thought this shows a lack of understanding of what religious men can do for the Church.

I also met the Brothers of the Poor. They do not teach, do not do social work, do not run hospitals. Yet, they are doing so much for the Church. They do pretty much the same ministry as Mother Teresa, except that they are also monks. They spend long hours in silence and in their enclosure. The community of the faithful has really gathered around their house, especially on Sundays for liturgy.

Through their holiness, they have drawn converts to the Church and the Eucharist. There is only one priest in the entire congregation. Their rule says that they may never have more than two priests.

JR

 

[James0235]

I do know a guy who has spent some time over the past 2 years or so discerning the religious life. He says that he feels no call to the priesthood - and he is glad about that because he doesn’t want to go back to school.

But, he also says that he does not believe he is called to marriage. The last time I spoke to him I know he was planning to visit some Salesians. He feels he might be called to join that order.

James

 

[JReducation]

I do know a guy who has spent some time over the past 2 years or so discerning the religious life. He says that he feels no call to the priesthood - and he is glad about that because he doesn’t want to go back to school.

But, he also says that he does not believe he is called to marriage. The last time I spoke to him I know he was planning to visit some Salesians. He feels he might be called to join that order.

James

Your friend may be called to consecrate his life to Christ through a life of prayer and community in the same fashion as St. Francis de Sales. This is what religious life is about.

In marriage we consecrate our life to each other and through each other we reach Christ.

In the priesthood, there is no consecration per se, we are anointed or ordained to preach and dispense grace through the sacraments and to lead and govern the Church.

JR

 

[Cat]

This is just a thought, and I may be wrong. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings by voicing this thought.

But I wonder if in the U.S., people tend to look askance at “communities,” including religious communities.

Many of us still remember the “communes” of the hippie era, which often were not very “industrious”, to put it diplomatically.

And several of the religious cults have lived in community, and some of these have ended in death and destruction (e.g., the Jim Jones cult). The “Ranch” of the Fundamentalist LDS is another example of a “community” that possibly practiced some questionable activities.

The military is a “community” that many do not approve of, although we support individuals who are part of the military.

In the U.S., we value rugged inidivualism and the “Lone Ranger.” Although the Justice League is a popular comic, Batman and Superman, comics about lone heroes, are even more popular.

A movement that is sweeping through Protestant Christians is the “home church” movement, where families withdraw from the church community (often because they have been burned over and over again), and have their own church services at home.

I think that many of us are suspicious about giving away too much of ourselves to others. We don’t trust each other, because we’ve all been betrayed too many times even by our family members and fellow Christians. I don’t trust people. I wish I could.

We all admire the priest, who is often well known and involved in city affairs and events. He is like a “businessman”, whose business is souls. Therefore we can identiry with him and accept him as “normal.”

But a person in community–well, that’s very strange to us here in the U.S.A. It’s not normal in our culture.

Just a thought. I wish it were not like this.

 

[lak611]

I fully agree that we ned the priests for the sacraments.

But just look at what you said, “if we had 50,000 more sisters”. Why not 50,000 more male religious?

Not all male religious want to be priests. Some young men feel the presure to be priests, when they really want to be religious.

We are seeing this in developing nations. They have hundreds of brothers making vows each year and new congregations of brothers coming up all the time. The difference is that the laity in the developing countries treats the Brothers with great respect and shows a real appreciation for their contribution. I think we lack this in the USA and Europe.

I often wonder if we’re more status oriented and see the priesthood as a sign of status. Just a thought. I can’t prove it.

JR

I really did not understand what male religious do until reading some of your posts. I was under the impression that religious life was priesthood in an order for men and nun/sister for women. I really did not know about male religious who are not priests because all the male religious I have known were priests.

I always thought the possible vocations for a man were: priest (diocesan or religious order), deacon, marriage, or single life. I never knew about male religious who are not priests, since I never met any.

 

[JReducation]

This is just a thought, and I may be wrong. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings by voicing this thought.

But I wonder if in the U.S., people tend to look askance at “communities,” including religious communities.

Many of us still remember the “communes” of the hippie era, which often were not very “industrious”, to put it diplomatically.

And several of the religious cults have lived in community, and some of these have ended in death and destruction (e.g., the Jim Jones cult). The “Ranch” of the Fundamentalist LDS is another example of a “community” that possibly practiced some questionable activities.

The military is a “community” that many do not approve of, although we support individuals who are part of the military.

In the U.S., we value rugged inidivualism and the “Lone Ranger.” Although the Justice League is a popular comic, Batman and Superman, comics about lone heroes, are even more popular.

A movement that is sweeping through Protestant Christians is the “home church” movement, where families withdraw from the church community (often because they have been burned over and over again), and have their own church services at home.

I think that many of us are suspicious about giving away too much of ourselves to others. We don’t trust each other, because we’ve all been betrayed too many times even by our family members and fellow Christians. I don’t trust people. I wish I could.

We all admire the priest, who is often well known and involved in city affairs and events. He is like a “businessman”, whose business is souls. Therefore we can identiry with him and accept him as “normal.”

But a person in community–well, that’s very strange to us here in the U.S.A. It’s not normal in our culture.

Just a thought. I wish it were not like this.

That’s a really intersting concept. I had never thought of it. Maybe that’s why religious communities of men are thriving in developing nations where community life is very common among the laity. It’s a means of survival for them. We have more of an individualistic/productive/business oriented culture.

When you speak about a priest, you can see what he does.

When you speak about a religious man, you can’t see what he does, because he doesn’t do anything that’s different from any lay person. In the case of a religious the focus is not on doing, such as ministering to people. The focus is on being,

1. being a man of intense prayer, being a Brother to his brothers in community and to others,
2. being a man of silence who takes time from his day to spend listening to God,
3. being a man of work who washes dishes, cleans house, teaches, picks up sick and poor from the streets, or works on a farm such as enclosed monastic brothers do,
4. being a man of community whou will never marry, even if Church changed the rule on celibacy it does not apply to the religious man, because he’s consecrated his life to his community and that’s his wife,
5. being a man of God totally dedicated to loving God and being loved by God, without the commitments of the priesthood, the married life, or the single life of the secular man, completely detached from everything so that God can fill every part of his life.

This form of being is hard for Americans, especially American Catholics.

JR

 

[JReducation]

I really did not understand what male religious do until reading some of your posts. I was under the impression that religious life was priesthood in an order for men and nun/sister for women. I really did not know about male religious who are not priests because all the male religious I have known were priests.

I always thought the possible vocations for a man were: priest (diocesan or religious order), deacon, marriage, or single life. I never knew about male religious who are not priests, since I never met any.

Sometimes you can’t tell them apart from priests. For example, the monks and friars all wear the same habit or a Roman collar when they are in “uniform”. You can’t tell the difference between a friar who is a priest and a friar who is a lay brother. In some communities, like the Capuchin-Franciscans, they are dropping the title Father, except for St. Francis who will always be Father Francis, even though he was a lay brother. They use Brother, Friar or Fra (Frater).

This the desire of many religous communities to return to their roots. Many religious communities were not founded as communities of priest, some were. Francisans were founded as communities of Brothers (Friars), Marianists, De la Salle Brothers, Missionaries of Charity, Missionaries of the Poor, Carmelites and others.

JR

 

[lak611]

Sometimes you can’t tell them apart from priests. For example, the monks and friars all wear the same habit or a Roman collar when they are in “uniform”. You can’t tell the difference between a friar who is a priest and a friar who is a lay brother. In some communities, like the Capuchin-Franciscans, they are dropping the title Father, except for St. Francis who will always be Father Francis, even though he was a lay brother. They use Brother, Friar or Fra (Frater).

This the desire of many religous communities to return to their roots. Many religious communities were not founded as communities of priest, some were. Francisans were founded as communities of Brothers (Friars), Marianists, De la Salle Brothers, Missionaries of Charity, Missionaries of the Poor, Carmelites and others.

JR

There is a shrine parish in Cleveland (St. Paul’s Shrine) that has Capuchin Franciscans. I do not know if any of the brothers there are not priests. I have only met the priest brothers, whom I like to visit for Confession. I have also gone to Mass there. Since I have only been to the parish for Mass and Confession, I would not have met any brothers who are not priests.

 

[JReducation]

There is a shrine parish in Cleveland (St. Paul’s Shrine) that has Capuchin Franciscans. I do not know if any of the brothers there are not priests. I have only met the priest brothers, whom I like to visit for Confession. I have also gone to Mass there. Since I have only been to the parish for Mass and Confession, I would not have met any brothers who are not priests.

I know those friars. That’s Cardinal Sean O’Malley’s community. Check out his blog.

JR

 

[lak611]

I know those friars. That’s Cardinal Sean O’Malley’s community. Check out his blog.

JR

Thanks! I will do that.

 

[Jeanette_L]

I really did not understand what male religious do until reading some of your posts. I was under the impression that religious life was priesthood in an order for men and nun/sister for women. I really did not know about male religious who are not priests because all the male religious I have known were priests.

I always thought the possible vocations for a man were: priest (diocesan or religious order), deacon, marriage, or single life. I never knew about male religious who are not priests, since I never met any.

I was in the same boat as you Laura, I didn’t understand the difference between religious men, religious priests, secular priests…until I started reading about them in these posts.

I think that because we are not exposed to them, we don’t even ask the questions, it just never comes up.

I think this may start to change. I’ve seen a little more on EWTN also about religious communites. I’m hoping things will change for us throught these efforts, and through prayer!!!

 

[lak611]

I was in the same boat as you Laura, I didn’t understand the difference between religious men, religious priests, secular priests…until I started reading about them in these posts.

I think that because we are not exposed to them, we don’t even ask the questions, it just never comes up.

I think this may start to change. I’ve seen a little more on EWTN also about religious communites. I’m hoping things will change for us throught these efforts, and through prayer!!!

I knew the difference between secular priests and religious priests, but I did not know anything about religious men who are not priests.