Why don't Catholics have Open Communion?

[1beleevr]

I will try to remember and link to this post the next time a Latin Catholic complains that they are not allowed to receive in an Orthodox church.

Whether or not the catholic church is divisive or not is still open for discussion!

 

[1beleevr]

Um lb what does that have to do with denying the Eucharist? Heb 10:12-17 is talking about how only Christ’s spiritual sacrifice can sanctify mankind. That the Old Sacrafices were ineffective?

Why did Jesus say DO THIS in memory of me. IF he did not want the Priest to DO THIS? DO this means to do something in the present does it not?

Again how you feel that the Eucharist that is the Spiritual Sacrifice that sanctify’s mankind does not go hand in hand with DO THIS in memory of me is beyond me?

Where is the contradiction there?

Here is the scripture. He is abolishing the FIRST sort to ESTABLISH the SECOND. And this WILL was for us to be MADE HOLY by the OFFERING of the BODY of Christ made ONCE and for all.

Do you not understand lb that to us it is the actual presence of God with us, that Jesus is there, and welcomes us to the table with him. We are made Holy by this offering of bread and wine. How are we to be made Holy if we do not do this? Especially when he commanded his Apostles to DO THIS?

Hi, rinnie; nice to “see” you again! I don’t believe that Jesus makes any more sacrifices before the Father for us! He already did that, and is now seated at the right hand of God! Besides. God prefers obedience to sacrifice, anyway! And, He was speaking to us ALL, when He said,“As often as you do this, do it in remembrance of Me.” So, whether you do it once a week, five times a week, twice a month, or whatever, you must do it in remembrance of Christ. There is no Biblical support of transsubstantiation, or the priest being the only one drinking from the cup. It is so much more meaningful when you hold and drink from your own cup!

 

[1beleevr]

You are right the Catholic CHurch is world wide or Universal like Christ said it would be.

Also you lost me on how the Apostles died so you could not be taught by them? Do you think that Catholics believed that we were taught by the Apostles. Oh No lb. Catholic never believed that we were or or ever will be taught by the Apostles. We were taught by Jesus Christ. He only Spoke through the Apostles. As he continues to do, like he said he would. He promised us that he would teach us through the CC thought the Chosen teachers until the end of time.

So what would it matter if it was St John 2000 years ago, or Father John today? Do you think that Jesus did not mean those words, or is not capable to keep his promise to give them the words today as yesterday?

Jesus said I am with you always. Until the end of time, do you feel time has ended?

And He also teaches us through pastors, preachers and others! Jesus will meet you wherever you are, not just the cc!

 

[1beleevr]

when did i say that the priest receives in both species sometimes? i said the priest is required to recieve both the Body and Blood of Christ

so it would be safe to assume that the Apostles did the same

its the laity who doesn’t have to, since receiving one species is receiving Christ in full

It’s still W-E-I-R-D!

 

[1beleevr]

Wine is part of the Passover service, a very important part. In fact it is so important that charities are established to this day to provide the wine for Passover for families who cannot afford it.

The Last Supper was a Passover service, but Jesus changed it to institute the Eucharist. He changed it in a variety of ways. That time, the Passover service was actually finished on the cross (long story, not on topic.)

So yes, in the time of the Apostles, they drank wine, at least as part of the rituals of their faith. This should not be a surprise or a source of confusion.

When did He change it, and how? And I believe that the apostles allowed others to drink their own wine!

 

[1beleevr]

Actually** 1believer** He is [HAS in the Bible]

John 10:16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”.

**Mt. 16: 15 ** He [Jesus] said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I [singular[/COLOR]] tell you, you are Peter, **[singular] **and on this rock **singular] **I will build my **singular] **church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [singular] 19 I **[God singular] **will give you **[singular] **the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you **[singular] **bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Eph. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, **SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [SINGULAR] **in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

Eph. 4: 4 “There is one body **[One Church] ** and one Spirit, [One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, One Triune God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma and Tradition] one baptism, [By water in the Trinity[/COLOR]] 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift”

***Now as for your EXCELLENT question on the wine:

The reason is “that the ENTIRE CHRIST is Completely Present [ENTIRELY] [Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity] in Just the “Bread”, or Just the “Wine”; in fact is JUST any part of the BREAD or Wine.”

The World wide NORM is for Communion to the laity under the form of what was BREAD only. The reason the Priest always consumes BOTH is the Command of Jesus to “Do this in memory of Me.”

The reason the CC does not insist od BOTH form forms as necessary for all are two. 1. As mntiopned above the Etire Jesus is Present in both species, so it is not absolutely necessary. 2. There is the increased possibility of sacriledge or abuse.

And of couse you and I are still taught by the Apostles if we use the Catholic Bible.

Thanks for asking,

Love and prayers,
Pat***

Jesus told US to do this in remembrance of Him, not just the priest! And I don’t have, nor do I need a catholic Bible; mine is just fine!

 

[1beleevr]

That would have been difficult considering Jesus resurrected into heaven approximately 8 decades or 80 yrs before the words “Catholic Church” were found to have been first written. The term “Christians” though can be found right there in Acts 11:26.

Well not that it would have been difficult for Jesus to have told you that. He could have done so but it speaks volumes that He chose to not.

Well, I suppose that indirectly, since we read their words, we are taught by Jesus throught the apostles(Paul is my ultimate favorite!). And we are all Christians, those of us who believe in Jesus and the One who sent Him, not necessarily catholics! Besides, when we get to Heaven, it won’t matter what we were on Earth!

 

[1beleevr]

read this

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#V

it will explain much, much better than i can

This is very insightful, and in great detail; but means more to a catholic, than to others! In Hebrews, it also says, that there is no more sacrifice for sins! Jesus made one sacrifice ONCE and for ALL! No other sacrifice is necessary from Him! I know that Paul tells us to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice, but Christ already offered His sacrifice, which was accepted by God; for us, as unworthy as we are!

 

[jmcrae]

This is very insightful, and in great detail; but means more to a catholic, than to others! In Hebrews, it also says, that there is no more sacrifice for sins! Jesus made one sacrifice ONCE and for ALL! No other sacrifice is necessary from Him!

Right, exactly, and at Mass, this same Sacrifice is made present to us, in an un-bloody manner, and we eat of the Sacrifice, so as to be joined with it, and have our sins washed away, and be renewed in our hearts.

I know that Paul tells us to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice, but Christ already offered His sacrifice, which was accepted by God; for us, as unworthy as we are!

This is exactly what we believe as Catholics, too.

 

[jmcrae]

When did He change it, and how?

At the Last Supper, by offering bread in place of the Lamb, and telling the disciples, “This is my Body.”

And I believe that the apostles allowed others to drink their own wine!

They were sharing the one Cup of the Passover - the one that Jesus told them, “This is my Blood.”

What do you mean, “their own”? Whose own?

 

[1beleevr]

At the Last Supper, by offering bread in place of the Lamb, and telling the disciples, “This is my Body.”



They were sharing the one Cup of the Passover - the one that Jesus told them, “This is my Blood.”

What do you mean, “their own”? Whose own?

You know, like when Jesus passed the bread around and each disciple got to hold “their own” piece! In communion, each Christian holds their cup of wine, and bread! And I think He meant, "this is My Body for all times, not just on the Cross!

 

[1beleevr]

Right, exactly, and at Mass, this same Sacrifice is made present to us, in an un-bloody manner, and we eat of the Sacrifice, so as to be joined with it, and have our sins washed away, and be renewed in our hearts.

This is exactly what we believe as Catholics, too.

You mean the sacrifice that was already made? You’re making it again and again and gain…?

 

[jmcrae]

You mean the sacrifice that was already made? You’re making it again and again and gain…?

No, we’re not. Jesus is presenting it to us over and over again - not making it over and over again. It’s like watching a favorite DVD over and over again - same DVD, same story, was only made once - but experiencing it as many times as you want to.

 

[jmcrae]

You know, like when Jesus passed the bread around and each disciple got to hold “their own” piece! In communion, each Christian holds their cup of wine, and bread! And I think He meant, "this is My Body for all times, not just on the Cross!

Jesus was not passing around 12 different pieces of bread, or 12 different cups of wine. They were all eating from the same piece, and drinking from the same cup.

 

[1beleevr]

No, we’re not. Jesus is presenting it to us over and over again - not making it over and over again. It’s like watching a favorite DVD over and over again - same DVD, same story, was only made once - but experiencing it as many times as you want to.

Once was enough; that’s what grace is all about! Religion tells you, you’ll never be good enough! What is the purpose of reliving the sacrifice?

 

[jmcrae]

Once was enough; that’s what grace is all about! Religion tells you, you’ll never be good enough! What is the purpose of reliving the sacrifice?

To partake of it in Holy Communion, and become joined with it in our body and soul.

Just remembering about it in your mind is not what Jesus was talking about. He instituted Holy Communion at a Passover meal because Holy Communion is like the Passover - you must eat of the Sacrifice, in order to become joined with it. Not just think about the fact that it was made.

Remember that they could not consider themselves free from Egypt and members of the Covenant of Moses, until they actually ate of the Lamb of Sacrifice - even in the generations long after those events were over.

Jesus is the Passover Lamb of God, and we become members of His Covenant and renew our membership in His Covenant when we eat His body and blood, soul and divinity, in Holy Communion.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Once was enough; that’s what grace is all about! Religion tells you, you’ll never be good enough! What is the purpose of reliving the sacrifice?

Jesus Himself told us that unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you shall not have life within you. It’s hard to picture Him as being so perverse as to say that, and not have a means whereby that can be fulfilled. And at the Last Supper, he clearly linked the Eucharist to his crucifixion and death. His body was to be broken for us, and His blood shed for us, and that happened on the cross where he sacrificed his life.

Since he linked the giving His body and blood to that sacrifice, why would His Church separate that giving from it?

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

With so many “rules” for receiving the eucharist, perhaps we are better off not receiving it, and doing it the way Jesus and His disciples did at the Last Supper! And do you see Him in your mind’s eye? You know, transsubstantiation? And it is possible for someone, anyone to confess directly to the Father(God, that is!) So, I have never complained about not being able to take communion at a catholic church, just wondered why in some instances, [SIGN]the priest is the only one drinking the wine?

[/SIGN]

Only top shelf lB

The reason like I said lb is that there are so many rules as you call it is because Jesus wrote the book the Priest just teach the class. Jesus told the Apostles to teach, according to his rules not ours.

Better off not receiving it Jesus told us to. Why would we disobey what Jesus told us to do

Do you have to see Jesus to believe him lB We don’t. We believe what he told us on faith.

Mat. 26:15 take and eat this is my body. Don’t get any clearer then that:
Mark 14:22, 24 This is my body, This is my blood of the covenant
Luke 22:19-20 This is my body wich will be given up for you,…new covenant IN MY BLOOD>

John 6:50-69 This is the bread which come down from heaven…(see lb we do not have to see to believe, if Jesus says it, its with the Catholics. Who ever eats this bread will live forever ( I kinda want to live forever with Christ):

Sure its possible to confess to God. But not if you are in mortal sin, you must go to the Church (Priest) they are acting on Gods behalf. You know what my Father has given me I know give to you…who’s sin you forgive are forgiven, all that!:

Yep we believe it, every single word of it. If The APostles taught it and learned it from God its in the Church. Every single bit of it.

Thats why the RCC is the Fullness of the Faith. We got it all!

Its kind of like Prego, If Jesus taught it, Its in there!!

 

[1beleevr]

[SIGN][/SIGN][/SIGN]

Only top shelf lB

The reason like I said lb is that there are so many rules as you call it is because Jesus wrote the book the Priest just teach the class. Jesus told the Apostles to teach, according to his rules not ours.

Better off not receiving it Jesus told us to. Why would we disobey what Jesus told us to do

Do you have to see Jesus to believe him lB We don’t. We believe what he told us on faith.

Mat. 26:15 take and eat this is my body. Don’t get any clearer then that:
Mark 14:22, 24 This is my body, This is my blood of the covenant
Luke 22:19-20 This is my body wich will be given up for you,…new covenant IN MY BLOOD>

John 6:50-69 This is the bread which come down from heaven…(see lb we do not have to see to believe, if Jesus says it, its with the Catholics. Who ever eats this bread will live forever ( I kinda want to live forever with Christ):

Sure its possible to confess to God. But not if you are in mortal sin, you must go to the Church (Priest) they are acting on Gods behalf. You know what my Father has given me I know give to you…who’s sin you forgive are forgiven, all that!:

Yep we believe it, every single word of it. If The APostles taught it and learned it from God its in the Church. Every single bit of it.

Thats why the RCC is the Fullness of the Faith. We got it all!

Its kind of like Prego, If Jesus taught it, Its in there!!

Well, of course I believe in Jesus without seeing Him, silly! That’s what they call F-A-I-T-H! And I confess all of my sins to God, through Jesus, of course! That’s what John tells me I can do in 1John 1:9! In fact, I just confessed to my wife, about a lie I told 7 weeks ago(James 5:16). I had already confessed it to God and i know it was forgiven! Do you realize that i have thefullness of Christ inside of me:thumbsup: And I partake of communion, the same way jesus and His disciples did! We break off the bread, pass it around; then all drink from the cup as Christ and His disciples did! Yippee! You know what I love most about Ephesians 4:3-6? Verse 6:There is One God, and Father of ALL men, who is Lord of ALL, wWho works through ALL, and is IN ALL! W-O-W, that is a powerful confirmation that the same Spirit that led the Israelites through the desert, lives IN me today! Jesus said in Matthew, that He and His Father would come and live in Us!! So, you see, rinn, the catholic church does not have God all to themselves! And I will continue to take communion the same way; no sacrifices by my Lord; He made one, once and for all, and is seated at the right hand of God!

 

[rinnie]

Well, of course I believe in Jesus without seeing Him, silly! That’s what they call F-A-I-T-H! And I confess all of my sins to God, through Jesus, of course! That’s what John tells me I can do in 1John 1:9! In fact, I just confessed to my wife, about a lie I told 7 weeks ago(James 5:16). I had already confessed it to God and i know it was forgiven! Do you realize that i have thefullness of Christ inside of me:thumbsup: And I partake of communion, the same way jesus and His disciples did! We break off the bread, pass it around; then all drink from the cup as Christ and His disciples did! Yippee! You know what I love most about Ephesians 4:3-6? Verse 6:There is One God, and Father of ALL men, who is Lord of ALL, wWho works through ALL, and is IN ALL! W-O-W, that is a powerful confirmation that the same Spirit that led the Israelites through the desert, lives IN me today! Jesus said in Matthew, that He and His Father would come and live in Us!! So, you see, rinn, the catholic church does not have God all to themselves! And I will continue to take communion the same way; no sacrifices by my Lord; He made one, once and for all, and is seated at the right hand of God!

Hi lB (tell the truth you missed me huh).

Got a few questions for you though. Know you love a good quiz.

First of all let me try to explain a little of Catholic faith. You know me short and sweet. Well I try.

Catholics believe that all pardon for our sins come fromt he finished work on Calvary. But how is this PARDON RECEIVED by individuals?

Well lets see. The bible says he gave us TWO means.

First one if Baptism, do you not agree, It was give to take away any sin inherited from Adam.

Then we have a second way. Here is why, we have sins unfortunately after baptism this is confession. Remember Jesus did it Matt 9:6

Now since he knew he would not always be with the church VISIBLY he gave this power to other men so the Church which is the continuation of his presence throughout time (Matt 28:20)

God send Jesus to forgive sins do you not agree? If you do, then why do you no agree that he could give that power to the Apostles. He said he did. Let me show you. As the Father sent me, so I sent you, and WHEN he said this he said this he breathed on them and said Receive the Holy Spirit, Then lb right after that, RIGHT after that he continued did he not. If YOU forgive the sins of any they are FORGIVEN, If YOU retain them they are retained.

Now this is the only other time he breathed on Man did you know that. This proves how powerful this really is.

Now do you believe that God gave that power to Jesus? Do you agree that he really God and Human, (Man). IF you do, how can you reject that this power from God is breathed into Certain Man to also do his work? I don’t get it why you reject this, I mean 1b let me be frank with you. You of all people, I can’t understand How You reject this. You do know the word of God, but how can you let this slip by.

What I am asking show me in your eyes how you make this go away. I am dead serious. I am trying to see how you really see these words. Thanks Love.