Why don't Catholics quote Scripture?

[ProVobis]

I agree that everyone should read Scripture. As Saint Jerome said, “Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.” However, we must must remember that Scripture by itself is not the final authority. The First Book of Timothy 3:15 says “…the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” The Catholic Church is the authority. When we read Scripture it must be with the guildance of the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church, which is presented to us in the Caechism. Reading Scripture without the guildance of the Catholic Church is at the heart of why there are 40,000+ Protestant denominations.

Ran

I would agree with that.

I ask this of some of the other posters. Didn’t the Catholic Church determine what constituted the Bible in the first place? While Protestants not only translated to their own interpretation but also threw out books which conflicted with their interpretation? Witness just all the English Bibles out there and no doubt there were much more which never made it to the publisher. And I doubt if they were all divinely inspired.

Maybe it’s not so much reading Scripture but what exactly does one read in or into Scripture.

 

[Zenkai]

I would agree with that.

I ask this of some of the other posters. Didn’t the Catholic Church determine what constituted the Bible in the first place? While Protestants not only translated to their own interpretation but also threw out books which conflicted with their interpretation? Witness just all the English Bibles out there and no doubt there were much more which never made it to the publisher. And I doubt if they were all divinely inspired.

Maybe it’s not so much reading Scripture but what exactly does one read in or into Scripture.

No, Protestants did not throw out books that conflicted with their views; they simply used the same books that the Jews used. Also, they didn’t make translations to match their own interpretation.

 

[Cat_Herder]

No, Protestants did not throw out books that conflicted with there views; they simply used the same books that the Jews used.

Why do you care what books the Jews decided to use? That’s the same generation of Jews who were shouting “crucify him!” at the praetorium just a few decades earlier. If they’re clueless about who the Messiah is then they’re equally clueless about what the Christian Bible is.

Also, they didn’t make translations to match their own interpretation.

The King James Version is exactly that. And most Protestant translations are based off the Jewish Masoretic Text, composed in the tenth century by the descendants of those Jews, who have no authority to tell Christians what to do.

 

[Zenkai]

Why do you care what books the Jews decided to use? That’s the same generation of Jews who were shouting “crucify him!” at the praetorium just a few decades earlier. If they’re clueless about who the Messiah is then they’re equally clueless about what the Christian Bible is.

The King James Version is exactly that. And most Protestant translations are based off the Jewish Masoretic Text, composed in the tenth century by the descendants of those Jews, who have no authority to tell Christians what to do.

We care what books the Jews used because Jesus was a Jew. And yes, the KJV is a Protestant translation, but they didn’t add a Protestant bias.

 

[Cat_Herder]

We care what books the Jews used because Jesus was a Jew.

So you’ll throw out the New Testament like the Jews did? Their post-Calvary decisions are irrelevant for Christians. You need to go with Jesus over the Sanhedrin.

In case you aren’t aware of this, the New Testament is written in Greek and the vast majority of its citations to the Old Testament are to the Greek New Testament, aka the Septuagint. For their part, the Jews did not have a Bible canon until after Calvary, so their canon is irrelevant to Christians. I thought you realized all of this already, but if not I apologize.

Oh… and here’s the oldest extant Bible for you to take a look at. Needless to say, it’s all Greek and includes the deuterocanon.

And yes, the KJV is a Protestant translation, but they didn’t add a Protestant bias.

Deleting seven books in order to add a bias certainly counts as adding a bias.

 

[InDefense]

Ranp:

The Catholic Church is the authority. When we read Scripture it must be with the guildance of the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church, which is presented to us in the Caechism. Reading Scripture without the guildance of the Catholic Church is at the heart of why there are 40,000+ Protestant denominations.

The pages of scripture record the rise and fall of many a church before the Catholic church was even born. What makes you think that your church is any more righteous than these ?

 

[Cat_Herder]

The pages of scripture record the rise and fall of many a church before the Catholic church was even born. What makes you think that your church is any more righteous than these ?

No churches existed before Calvary.

If you are claiming that the Catholic Church is not the original Christian church then you are positing a total apostasy, meaning you are willing to make the Good Shepherd into a bad one for the sake of winning an argument. No apostasy for you!

 

[JRKH]

So you’ll throw out the New Testament like the Jews did? Their post-Calvary decisions are irrelevant for Christians. You need to go with Jesus over the Sanhedrin.

In case you aren’t aware of this, the New Testament is written in Greek and the vast majority of its citations to the Old Testament are to the Greek New Testament, aka the Septuagint. For their part, the Jews did not have a Bible canon until after Calvary, so their canon is irrelevant to Christians. I thought you realized all of this already, but if not I apologize.

Oh… and here’s the oldest extant Bible for you to take a look at. Needless to say, it’s all Greek and includes the deuterocanon.

Deleting seven books in order to add a bias certainly counts as adding a bias.

Just in order to keep things accurate, it should be noted that the Deutero’s were not tossed out or “deleted” by Luther and the Earliest KJV (1611) contained them. It is true that the reformers separated them into their own “section” and their “inspirational status” was downplayed, but they remained within the covers what was called the Holy Bible.
They were finally removed completely as a cost saving measure by printers.
If I recall correctly - in the early editions of the 66 book KJV there were still notations and references to the deuterocanonical books. Of course these then were later removed as well.

It wasn’t as though the early reformers got together in council and made determination on the canonicity of the various books. It simply developed over time…about 150 years or so…
The result is that No Protestant can point to a council or clear, organized, spirit led, documented decision making process that resulted in the removal of books from the previously held, 1000 year old, 73 book canon of the Catholic Church.

The Church on the other hand can point to the councils (plural)of Bishops who, in a whole series of councils codified the canon and consistently reaffirmed the canon without change over many centuries.

Peace
James

 

[Mr_Smith]

I’ve been looking through this forum and have seen many questions asked. However, the answers almost always come from the catechism and not Scripture. I’m just curious: why is this?

I guess it depends what threads you are looking at here under the Sacred Scriptures forum almost all threads contain quoted texts, whereas if you look at the As An Apologists it seems to be more church teaching and advice to people based on church practices and beliefs.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Just in order to keep things accurate, it should be noted that the Deutero’s were not tossed out or “deleted” by Luther and the Earliest KJV (1611) contained them. It is true that the reformers separated them into their own “section” and their “inspirational status” was downplayed, but they remained within the covers what was called the Holy Bible.

As concerns the KJV, that is correct, but eventually Luther’s demotion of the books lead to them being confined to a separate section and designated “apocryphal” (i.e. with no authority) much sooner than that.

 

[White_Peony]

Well, as Catholics we have a rich treasury of writings from many saints and others that were inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Bible is apart of that. There is just so much to quote.

 

[mark_a]

If you live in Bob Jones country, and I live in suburban Atlanta, we both know what Evangelical Bible intimidation is like. I’m not talking about bashing people over the head with a Bible or spraying verses like a machine gun.

I’m talking about the most benign, gentle reference to scripture among close friends.

-Tim-

Ok. Sorry.

 

[Lisa44]

I agree that everyone should read Scripture. As Saint Jerome said, “Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.” However, we must must remember that Scripture by itself is not the final authority. The First Book of Timothy 3:15 says “…the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” The Catholic Church is the authority. When we read Scripture it must be with the guildance of the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church, which is presented to us in the Caechism. Reading Scripture without the guildance of the Catholic Church is at the heart of why there are 40,000+ Protestant denominations.

Ran

Timothy 3:14-16
Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

The “pillar and foundation” referred to here is Jesus Christ. Not the Catholic church.

 

[Nate13]

Timothy 3:14-16
Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

The “pillar and foundation” referred to here is Jesus Christ. Not the Catholic church.

So Jesus is the groom and the bride of himself? The Church is the bride of Christ, but your saying “God’s household” and “the Church of the living God” is in reference to Christ? The description of Christ does not follow directly after “the pillar and foundation of Church”. There is a transition to it with the words “Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great”. To say that “God’s household” is in reference to Christ is nonsensical in that you would be saying God’s household is God.

Lets fill in Jesus where it says “church” in the sentence as well:
“which is Jesus of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth”
Also nonsensical since this is basically saying Christ of Christ.

 

[JRKH]

Timothy 3:14-16
Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

The “pillar and foundation” referred to here is Jesus Christ. Not the Catholic church.

Sorry Lisa. This just does not fly.

Let us look…
how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Is Jesus a Household? Is Jesus a “Church”" - an Ekklesia"? - A community called out???

I agree that Jesus is the cornerstone but it is we, the ekklesia, the Church, in Christ and being Christ’s body and God’s household who are the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth. Holding it up and protecting it.

Peace
James

 

[Lisa44]

What came first, Jesus or the Catholic church?

 

[tskrobacz]

I’ve been looking through this forum and have seen many questions asked. However, the answers almost always come from the catechism and not Scripture. I’m just curious: why is this?

As Catholics we believe the ascent of truth is found in Scripture, Tradition (Documents of the Second Vatican Council) and reason. Many “Christian” churches stumble because they focus on Scripture alone and fail to account for the “wisdom of the ages” that emerges from the tradition and reason.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

We Catholics quote so much from the Catechism,
because the Catechism is primarily based on the Scriptures.
It also includes the decisions of Church councils, quotes from the Scripture Studies
of Great Saints and Saintly Theologians, a wellspring of godly wisdom.

The Scriptures are holy and infallible and God-breathed.
But, at least with regard to the New Testament,
they came into existence in an Early Church which, Universally and Everywhere,
ALREADY HAD an established set of doctrines AND LITURGICAL PRACTICES
in place well before the first line of New Testament Scripture was ever written,
namely, the oral traditions (also infallible) handed to the Church BY THE APOSTLES themselves, and these traditions included teachings AND practices (such as the Mass and the other sacraments).
Later, post-apostolic traditions developed directly FROM the Apostolic teachings and are in perfect harmony with them. Not even the most personally morally-repugnant of popes (such as Alexander the Sixth) ever DARED touch the deposit of the Catholic faith to change or nullify it or add non-Christian beliefs to it. They were scared to death of not being allowed to repent at the last minute if they did such sacrilegious things to the faith.

God love you,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
PRAY THE ROSARY DAILY

 

[TimothyH]

Timothy 3:14-16
Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

The “pillar and foundation” referred to here is Jesus Christ. Not the Catholic church.

And Jesus Christ’s body is the Church.

The pillar and foundation of truth is the houshold of God - the Church - because the Church is Christ’s body.

We can argue about what the Church is, or what it looks like, or what the word “Church” really means and if it is Catholic, but the pillar and foundation of truth refers to the houshold of God, the Church, because the Church is Christ’s body.

-Tim-

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I know that I quote scripture all the time but I also quote the CCC quite a bit too. I’ve reflected on the OP’s question and I would say that the number one reason for not quoting scripture as much is because this is a Catholic forum and people come here looking for answers on Catholic teaching. They want to challenge it or support it or maybe they are just interested in learning. Thus, it is quite important to quote the catechism and other Church documents because that is the sum of Catholic teaching. Catholic teaching is not limited to the Bible. That may sound insulting to anyone with a sola scriptura mentality, but we do not believe that God’s word to us was limited to the canonized Scriptures. We believe that our Church is founded by Christ Himself, the Word of God, and the Church was given His authority for teaching and His Spirit for guidance. We are taught, and Scripture affirms, that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1Tim 3:15) and that we should abide by the word handed down to us both oral and written (2 Th 2:15). Thus, when we quote the teaching of the Church in the Catechism, we are quoting that which encompasses all of God’s word to us in Scripture, Tradition and the teaching of the Magisterium.