Why don't Jews believe in Jesus?

[KarenNC]

I have been told that the main objection to Jesus, as followed in the Catholic tradition, is against cannibalism. That argument is unanswerable.

Were you told this by a practicing Jew? Do you remember which tradition s/he came from?

I have to say that is not an objection I have ever heard either from nor attributed to any Jew (and we’ve been fairly involved in the local Jewish community and done a fairly wide amount of study of Judaism over the last 10 years or so), though I have heard it listed as an objection raised by various indigenous tribes in various countries.

I believe that Christians and others have at times in accused Jews of cannibalism as part of the history of blood libels

jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1173&letter=B&search=blood%20libel

The main objection I have seen presented by Jews is that Jesus is not God. This article may be helpful.
aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/
Why_Dont_Jews_Believe_In_Jesus$.asp

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

I thought I answered you. prayer did not replace sacrifice as much as it co-existed with it. The destruction of the Temple, as I’m sure you know, made sacrifice impossible, as the only place to offer sacrifice was the Temple.

To be fair, I don’t think ricmat was debating this part. That prayer co-existed along with Temple sacrifice is a given that no one would debate.

I think ricmat was more interested in why the Temple was taken away in the first place.

For example, the First Temple was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BC. This destruction of the first temple is well acknowledged within Judaism to have happened as a result of the nation of Israel’s sins against God.

Consequently, the Second Temple was rebuilt around 70 years later around 515 BC, when Cyrus allowed the Jews to return from the Babylonian captivity. To be specific, the return took place around 535 BC, and, after a number of delays, the Temple was completed in 515 BC.

Interestingly, there was a period of approximately 70 years between the time the First Temple was destroyed and the Second Temple was rebuilt.

Many Christians take Cyrus’ command to rebuild the temple as messianic. In fact, I think Cyrus is actually described as a type of Messiah within the Hebrew Scriptures.

When Jesus came, a temple had already been built, although it had been ‘modifed’ by Herod in Around 19 BC accoirding to Josephus in his Judaic Antiquities 15/14.

A stone (2.43×1 m) with Hebrew inscription “To the Trumpeting Place” excavated by Benjamin Mazar at the southern foot of the Temple Mount is believed to be a part of the Second Temple. Similarly, archaeological excavations have found one hundred mikva surrounding the Temple Mount or Har HaBayit.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

…continued…

Nothwithstanding how beautiful this area must have been, Jesus seemed to speak in no uncertain terms as to what would happen to this Second Temple.

“Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

True to his word, in AD 70 this Second Temple was razed to the ground, stone by stone-- the Roman soldiers literally separated the stones to get at the gold that had melted between the great stones during the fires that destroyed the Second Temple.

Many Christians see a foreshdowing in the timeframe between the period between the First and Second Temple and Jesus’s birth and the destruction of the Second Temple– both of which were approximately 70 years.

Interestingly, when one also compares the lives of Moses to that of Jesus, one will note that both generations that rebelled against these two men sent from God died due to their lack of faith within a generation of 40 years-- one generation died lost in the wilderness of Sanai whereas the other generation died lost in the seige of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

Even Jesus himself had alluded to himself as the Temple of God when he said this…
John 2:19:

Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

Many misinterpreted Jesus’ words to mean that he was going to destroy the Second Temple-- but that’s not what he implied. Jesus was speaking of his own body as he explains further…

But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

Consequently, this comes back to another passage which is used to address Jesus’ death and resurrection…
Hosea 6:2:

After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

Many have interpreted these words to also imply, using the analogy of a day with the Lord is as a thousand years, that after around 2000 years the Israelites would return home to rebuild their Third Temple. Consequnetly, he we are after about 2000 years, and there is finally the real possibility of a Third Temple being built too.

In light of this, it is suspected by some that John 2:19 and Hosea 6:2 not only refer to Jesus’s death and resurrection, but that these passages also refer to the entire nation of Israel’s Diaspora and Rebirth as a nation over a longer span of time where each ‘day’ equal a ‘thousand years’.

All in all, I think many Christians have a good right to believe that the life of Jesus fits well within the timeframes of Judaism. Certainly many Jews throughout history have believed this too and have converted to Christianity-- Jesus and his own apostles and disciples were themselves Jewish for that matter.

Nonetheless, if this is merely a coincidence, then it must me one of the most remarkable coincidences in history.

It does leave me to wonder why exactly God is believed to have allowed the Second Temple to be destroyed when he did within Jewish theology?

Indeed, if the First Temple was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BC due to Israel’s sin against God, then why was the Second Temple destroyed by the Romans in A.D. 70?

Again, I don’t think that ricmat is wondering about the fact that prayer was part worship. We all agree that prayer with an integral part of Judaism. This part is not being debated at all.

Rather, according to Judaism, what sin did the Israelites commit prior to the destruction of the Second Temple?

I think this is what ricmat is wondering. I am too.

 

[Jerusha]

Were you told this by a practicing Jew? Do you remember which tradition s/he came from?

Yes. That I do not know. However, his father was Catholic. I agree, people of meny ethnicities have found that to be stumbling block.

The main objection I have seen presented by Jews is that Jesus is not God.

Yes, that is the primary stumbling block for Jews, and people of many other faiths. Again, if they follow His teachings without accepting that, that is tolerable to me. Too many “Christians”, in return, forget that He also had a human nature.

In order to survive and adapt to the diaspora, they had to become more flexible in practicing their religion. Jesus knew that it was coming, and this was his message to his people.

So, there are many levels of “Believing in Jesus” ?

 

[KarenNC]

Yes. That I do not know. However, his father was Catholic. I agree, people of meny ethnicities have found that to be stumbling block.

Thanks, I was simply surprised that that might be an objection from a Jewish perspective, as I had never come across it, but then I am hardly an expert in all the nuances of Judaism, simply fairly well read in it. I was wondering if there was a subset that did carry that as a main objection that I had simply not yet encountered.

 

[ricmat]

Again, I don’t think that ricmat is wondering about the fact that prayer was part worship. We all agree that prayer with an integral part of Judaism. This part is not being debated at all.

Rather, according to Judaism, what sin did the Israelites commit prior to the destruction of the Second Temple?

I think this is what ricmat is wondering. I am too.

Although I am somewhat interested in “what sin” may have been involved, I was actually going down a slightly different path that I believe is less inflammatory.

There was a great deal of importance put on temple sacrifice in the Old Testament. The temple was the only place where sacrifice could occur. The temple was the center of Jewish life in general, and particularly anything involving God. Although as has been pointed out, prayer was a part of life too, especially if you didn’t live near the temple. If you can’t make it to the Temple, pray instead.

Now if in e.g. 300 BC a rabbinical council got together and said “Well, temple worship is not really required, we can just pray instead, and if the temple disappears that’s no big deal” then I’d say - OK. That’s why the temple is now unimportant to the Jews. But was there any such (pre BC) event that can be pointed to that definitively stated that temple sacrifice was no longer important?

Lacking such a rabbinical “event” (or some kind of new covenant, etc.) it seems like now saying that the temple is unimportant is merely an after the fact reaction to the de-facto destruction of the temple, rather than part of God’s plan.

I tend to think that the temple was destroyed because it was no longer necessary. Just as the Ark was no longer necessary. The temple was razed to the ground and to this day cannot be rebuilt - on purpose. God wants to ensure that everybody understands that the old temple and Ark are out of the picture.

The body of Christ is the new temple as well as the Word of God incarnated (the Ark is no longer needed to hold the word of God). And the Church is the new Jerusalem.

Of course, this is blindingly obvious to me as a Catholic.

It’s just difficult for me to see the Jewish logic that the temple and Ark disappearing is no big deal.

.

 

[Valke2]

Jews firmly believe the Temple will be rebuilt and that we are commanded to do so. A great deal of study around the sacrifices and Temple practices is still engaged in by many Jews today. I did not mean to imply that its destruction was not a big deal.

[EDIT]

Practices change and adapt. At least in Judaism. After all, were not the early christians expecting Jesus to return relatively quickly? But 2,000 years later, Christainity thrives despite some significant changes in circumstances.

 

[Jerusha]

Practices change and adapt. At least in Judaism. After all, were not the early christians expecting Jesus to return relatively quickly? But 2,000 years later, Christainity thrives despite some significant changes in circumstances

Excellent point. All cultures and religions and people must adapt in order to continue their existence.

 

[DLC]

To our Jewish friends, to whom does the presonal pronoun “He” refer to in these verses?

Isa 53:5-6
5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.
NASU

 

[Valke2]

To our Jewish friends, to whom does the presonal pronoun “He” refer to in these verses?

Isa 53:5-6
5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.
NASU

You should find a better translation.
He was wounded from our transgressions.
He was crushed from our iniquities.

The “He” is Israel. The other nations thought Israel was suffering Divine retribution. BUt Isaiah is pointing out that they now understand that it was their own actions that caused Israel to suffer. This is a common theme that is set out in other parts of our scripture.

You should look at Isaiah 42:4 and see how you square that with your interpetation of 53.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I found an interesting article written by a rabbi about why Jews don’t regard Jesus as the Messiah. Here is the link:

Redirecting...

Some of the interesting points Rabbi Simmons makes is that in Judaism, belief is based solely on national revelation. Do Christians accept only national revelation as well? If not, how does one know what revelation to follow? Another interesting statement that the rabbi makes is that Judaism believes in the “Seven Laws of Noah” for non-Jews. Does anybody know what these are? How would a Christian respond to the rabbi’s article? Thanks in advance for any answers!

Short answer: Because there is no coercive reason for them to do so.​

Conversely, they could in principle ask us that question about believing their own religion’s claims (if they were missionary-minded).

It’s not difficult to read the first three gospels as describing a purely human Jewish eschatological preacher of uncertain origin, who believed (mistakenly) that he was the (or a) Messiah; was briefly popular with a section of his fellow-Jews; was betrayed by a follower; & was crucified.

The fourth Gospel is a bit harder to read like that, but it’s always possible to give reasons for regarding it as less trustworthy than the others as evidence about him.

AFAICS, it’s because the debates about Him are endless, & because there are good reasons not to be convinced by the Christian claims about Him, that we need faith. Faith is what gives those claims the soil in which they can grow, & the stability for them to do so. It’s what gets us beyond the noise of the competing ideas about Him. ##

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Jews firmly believe the Temple will be rebuilt and that we are commanded to do so. A great deal of study around the sacrifices and Temple practices is still engaged in by many Jews today. I did not mean to imply that its destruction was not a big deal…

Fizzlw posted earlier about this too. I have seen on a rabbis site about what you said here. I understand most of the Temple furniture has been made. As well the clothing for the priests. There is a program going on now to breed a red heifer (cow).

Ive heard it said that if the Temple was suddenly there they could be moved in and up and running in I think it was something like a half day.

and what else was said that Messiah was not as important as the rebuilding of the Temple. Fizzlw stated that Messiah and world peace would follow, which is why Jesus is rejected.

As a christian I shudder to think whom this Messiah could be. Jesus is not coming to rebuld the Temple building as it was. It was a terribly distressing thing to learn about.

 

[Valke2]

Fizzlw posted earlier about this too. I have seen on a rabbis site about what you said here. I understand most of the Temple furniture has been made. As well the clothing for the priests. There is a program going on now to breed a red heifer (cow).

Ive heard it said that if the Temple was suddenly there they could be moved in and up and running in I think it was something like a half day.

and what else was said that Messiah was not as important as the rebuilding of the Temple. Fizzlw stated that Messiah and world peace would follow, which is why Jesus is rejected.

As a christian I shudder to think whom this Messiah could be. Jesus is not coming to rebuld the Temple building as it was. It was a terribly distressing thing to learn about.

I think those reports are a gross exaggeration of what they have. I’m not sure why our belief that the Temple will be rebuilt distresses you. We don’t think Jesus is coming to rebuild the Temple either. So we have that in common.

 

[sandmountainsli]

I have always figured that Jews look at Jesus in a similar way that Catholics and mainstream Protestants look at Joseph Smith.
WP

 

[Valke2]

We reject Jesus but I hope that we will embrace christians.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I think those reports are a gross exaggeration of what they have. I’m not sure why our belief that the Temple will be rebuilt distresses you. We don’t think Jesus is coming to rebuild the Temple either. So we have that in common.

Well, there is several sites The Temple Mount I think, Im travelling right now and dont have my links from home but when Im back I can post them. About the cow (There is a program in Alberta about this) and this rabbis explaination of why no Jesus. I remember several sources of the furnature that has been built, if its an exaggeration then I simply have not heard this until you have mentioned it now. Not that, the thought isnt there, I just havent heard it.

In my previous post as I didnt say I was distressed about the Temple being rebuilt but its rebuilding was looked too, more so, than Messiah.

And if its thought that Messiah will rebuild the Temple, I wonder just who will. Thats whats distrubing, who.

(Jesus said He would rebuild the Temple in 3 days, but they didnt get what He meant, He meant Himself, thats why Hes not rebuilding the Temple building.)

 

[Valke2]

Well, there is several sites The Temple Mount I think, Im travelling right now and dont have my links from home but when Im back I can post them. About the cow (There is a program in Alberta about this) and this rabbis explaination of why no Jesus. I remember several sources of the furnature that has been built, if its an exaggeration then I simply have not heard this until you have mentioned it now. Not that, the thought isnt there, I just havent heard it.

In my previous post as I didnt say I was distressed about the Temple being rebuilt but its rebuilding was looked too, more so, than Messiah.

And if its thought that Messiah will rebuild the Temple, I wonder just who will. Thats whats distrubing, who.

(Jesus said He would rebuild the Temple in 3 days, but they didnt get what He meant, He meant Himself, thats why Hes not rebuilding the Temple building.)

Yes, they are trying to (or have succeeded) in breeding a red heifer (if you believe the website and the photo). I’m just saying I doubt very much they would be able to have the Temple up and running in half a day.

As for Jews looking forward to the Temple more than the Messiah, keep in mind that the group you read about (i.e., those breeding the red cows) have their beliefs and the other Jews have their own. But also keep in mind that the Messiah is not God, according to us. And the Temple, many believe, will hold the glory/spirit of Hashem and will be the most holy place on earth. So it is understandable when someone says they look forward to the Temple more than the Messiah.

 

[Sixtus]

The Jews it seems are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah.

They will not be disappointed. They are waiting for HIm to come in all His glory and radiance. He will not let them down! Their first coming will be our second, that is the only difference

 

[Valke2]

The Jews it seems are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah.

They will not be disappointed. They are waiting for HIm to come in all His glory and radiance. He will not let them down! Their first coming will be our second, that is the only difference

There are significant differences between what we expect from our Messiah and from what Christians expect the Messiah will be. As you know.

 

[Kaninchen]

The Jews it seems are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah.

They will not be disappointed. They are waiting for HIm to come in all His glory and radiance. He will not let them down! Their first coming will be our second, that is the only difference

Could you give a citation from the Tanakh (Old Testament) for the “glory and radiance”? I wasn’t aware we were expecting a radiating Messiah.