Why don't Jews still practice animal sacrifices?

[Bible_Reader]

I did not PM you because I had to get offline shortly after that

Oh, is that right? Very strange. I notice that you had enough time to post this comment and this comment and this comment and this comment and this comment – after I posted – on that day. I guess in the approximately two hours that you were still on line after I posted (even replying in the same thread) you didn’t have time to send me a PM. That might have taken – oh maybe up to 15 seconds.

Why are you “fibbing”?

Besides, I figured how many Hebrew-speaking Catholics could Rabbi Steinsaltz know? I was sure he’d have no trouble remembering you.

You know, I talked to him last a few months ago. People generally remember other people by name.

By the way, did you take a minute during the recent holiday to look up the reference I gave you? My goodness, HashemEchad, it is there in black and white – it is even available in English translation.

You seem incredibly angry all of a sudden, and I don’t see why.

I’m more sad than angry. Of course, I am offended by your direct affronts to me and my integrity. But I thought you would at least be honest.

I’m not the only person here who has felt this way

Oh, is repeating rumors not lashon hara any more? Do you even try to keep the mitzvos?

And now you are going to lie and say I am not giving out accurate info about my OWN religion, even though I follow it and you do not?

That’s a good point. Until you, umm, “fibbed” about not being online, I would have thought you were merely unaware of the details of your religion – which, as you know, requires years of study to master.

But after your “fib” I’m not so sure.

But here is the glorious part – if I say something, you claim I am wrong. If I then go to the trouble of giving an exact citation in the Code of Jewish Law (the Shulchan Aruch) you claim I am showing off. I can’t win.

By the way, HashemEchad, it is strange to me that you don’t keep the second day of Shavuot, and yet you seem to keep North American time. Having some problems keeping the yomtov? (Or do you claim to be an Israeli or an expatriate Israeli?)

Maybe you should check with your Rabbi. Ask him if “fibbing” is keeping the Torah. Particularly when the fib is used to attack another person.

I will pray for you.

PS: I notice you still didn’t PM – even though you’ve been on all day today.

 

[Sublime_Prince]

Ok what I don’t get is the Jews practiced animal sacrafices before the temple was ever built in tabernacles. So why can’t Jews just erect a tabernacle and set it east and west ? Even before they had tabernacles they did animal sacrafices did they not?

 

[Valke2]

Ok what I don’t get is the Jews practiced animal sacrafices before the temple was ever built in tabernacles. So why can’t Jews just erect a tabernacle and set it east and west ? Even before they had tabernacles they did animal sacrafices did they not?

Those were pre-Temple commandments and once the Temple was built, sacrifices were to be completed only there. THere were times before and after the Temple that sacrifices were performed whereever an altar was erected. This practice died out and eventually it became halacha that sacrifices were to occur only at the Temple.

 

[HashemEchad]

Oh, is that right? Very strange. I notice that you had enough time to post this comment and this comment and this comment and this comment and this comment – after I posted – on that day. I guess in the approximately two hours that you were still on line after I posted (even replying in the same thread) you didn’t have time to send me a PM. That might have taken – oh maybe up to 15 seconds.

Why are you “fibbing”?

You know, I talked to him last a few months ago. People generally remember other people by name.

By the way, did you take a minute during the recent holiday to look up the reference I gave you? My goodness, HashemEchad, it is there in black and white – it is even available in English translation.

I’m more sad than angry. Of course, I am offended by your direct affronts to me and my integrity. But I thought you would at least be honest.

Oh, is repeating rumors not lashon hara any more? Do you even try to keep the mitzvos?

That’s a good point. Until you, umm, “fibbed” about not being online, I would have thought you were merely unaware of the details of your religion – which, as you know, requires years of study to master.

But after your “fib” I’m not so sure.

But here is the glorious part – if I say something, you claim I am wrong. If I then go to the trouble of giving an exact citation in the Code of Jewish Law (the Shulchan Aruch) you claim I am showing off. I can’t win.

By the way, HashemEchad, it is strange to me that you don’t keep the second day of Shavuot, and yet you seem to keep North American time. Having some problems keeping the yomtov? (Or do you claim to be an Israeli or an expatriate Israeli?)

Maybe you should check with your Rabbi. Ask him if “fibbing” is keeping the Torah. Particularly when the fib is used to attack another person.

I will pray for you.

PS: I notice you still didn’t PM – even though you’ve been on all day today.

You know, I really don’t need to justify my computer usage to you, but because you are making a major case out of this… I used this computer last week to kill time while waiting for my daughters to finish taking their final tests (I homeschool). Once those were done, I was offline for days, partly due to being busy getting ready for the holyday.

Because of the reason I was using it last week, you will sometimes see me log on, post a little, log off, then post more again later. This is because I had to stop to grade tests or give assistance, or maybe even answer the phone!

What prevented you from PMing me with your info, if you truly felt I needed to have it? YOU were the one offering the info, YOU should have sent it to ME. I don’t need to go running after you, when I felt able to go on the info I already had.

I think it might be better if you stop replying to me. I will stop replying to you. Because I have not lied or said anything incorrect, but I am starting to realize now why you suddenly got so angry. Its making sense now.

Be well.

 

[Bible_Reader]

You know, I really don’t need to justify my computer usage to you, but because you are making a major case out of this… I used this computer last week to kill time while waiting for my daughters to finish taking their final tests (I homeschool). Once those were done, I was offline for days, partly due to being busy getting ready for the holyday.

HashemEchad – thanks for the information. I hope you had a good matan Torah. Here is some Torah for you from the Talmud (Bava Metzia 107b):

Perfect yourself and only then should you perfect others.

Here’s my problem: You claim to be “Orthodox.” But you are breaking a number of big Torah laws.

Yesterday, (except in Israel), was the second day of the Jewish holiday of *Shavuos *(also called Shavuot, depending on your accent.) This celebrates the receiving of Torah from Mount Sinai. It is one of three *chagim *when Jews were historically required to make a pilgrimage to the Temple (the others are Passover and Sukkos.) Using computers, cars, turning on and off electrical devices – is strictly forbidden (unless it is a life-and-death emergency). No Orthodox Jew – not even the most liberal “Modern Orthodox” – would violate that *mitzvah *(commandment).

We Christians still keep the holiday as Pentecost.

But, I am afraid, you managed to post 50 times on a day when Orthodox Jews are forbidden to use the computer. That’s a shonda!

Now, it is my not job to be the “kosher-police” (that’s why I am a Catholic and not a Jew) – but I just want my fellow Catholics to know that you are posting under false pretenses.

Now, the weird thing is that you made this post last week:

A truly Orthodox Jew davens three times a day, keeps strictly glatt kosher, is totally shomer Torah, shomer negiah, sends their children to Orthodox day schools, studies in kollel, uses the mikveh when needed, and every second of their day is determined by Jewish Law.

Frankly, I don’t believe you are Jewish. But if you are, do yourself a favor, and talk to your Rabbi. You can still do teshuva.

In the meanwhile – I trust my fellow Catholics will take your words with a grain of salt.

Zei Gezunt! (Yiddish: Be healthy)

(By the way, I just sent a letter to Rabbi Steinsaltz asking if you really checked on me or not. I’ll report back when I get his reply in return.)

 

[HashemEchad]

Bible Reader: Here is something you do not understand about Shavuos: it does not have many of the usual prohibitions that accompany other Jewish holydays. It is unique among Jewish holydays in that regard.

I don’t know why, maybe its because I see now what you are really all about, but you seem to suddenly really have it “in” for me. I don’t know you, you don’t know me. But this is starting to feel very strange.

I chose not to reveal publicly what was told to me (via my rabbi) about you. I did not wish to publicly embarass you.

Yet you saw fit to try to embarass me, by claiming I did something on a Jewish holyday which you thought I am not allowed to do.

In Judaism, it is forbidden to try to publicly embarass someone, even if what you are trying to embarass them over is false.

I chose to respect your integrity, why did you seem so eager to try to violate mine?

And now you even claim you don’t think I am Jewish? Why are you trying to stoop so low, just because I called your bluff regarding the rabbi?

The more I read of your posts, the more I feel I need to put you on ignore.

Please, do not post to or about me anymore.

 

[Bible_Reader]

Bible Reader: Here is something you do not understand about Shavuos: it does not have many of the usual prohibitions that accompany other Jewish holydays. It is unique among Jewish holydays in that regard.

HashemEchad – I am afraid I have caught you in yet another lie.

Jewish Laws of Shavuos: During the course of the holiday we don’t go to work, drive, write or switch on or off electric devices. We are permitted to cook and to carry outdoors.

 

[HashemEchad]

HashemEchad – I am afraid I have caught you in yet another lie.

Jewish Laws of Shavuos: During the course of the holiday we don’t go to work, drive, write or switch on or off electric devices. We are permitted to cook and to carry outdoors.

I did not “switch on or off” any electrical devices. The computer was left on throughout the entire holyday. I know many religious Jews who do that, did you know that? So it can’t be only me, eh?

Here is something from Wikipedia, just for your information:
Shavuot is unlike other Jewish holidays in that it has no prescribed mitzvot (Torah commandments) other than the traditional festival observances of abstention from work, special prayer services and holiday meals. However, it is characterized by many minhagim (customs) that have taken on the force of law in traditional Jewish circles.
I did not go to work, drive (I don’t know how to anyway) or do schoolwork with my kids (it was over anyway.)

And now, I have to say goodbye because you are now being placed into ignore. This is really starting to feel like online stalking behavior, and it is disturbing.

Oh, and I’m sure you will report back here that the rabbi has never been contacted about you…just remember that fibbing is sinful in your religion as well as in mine.

 

[Bible_Reader]

I did not “switch on or off” any electrical devices. The computer was left on throughout the entire holyday.

Oh this is too, too rich. First, it is forbidden to write on the holiday (just look at the rules above). Second, pressing a key is turning on-and-off a device according to Jewish law (because it makes an electrical contact and closes a switch each time you press a key).

And as you just posted from Wikipedia, one must abstain from work. Just as on Shabbos, using an electrical device is considered “work” in Judaism. Since you now depend on Wikipedia for *halachic *advice, here is some for you:

Orthodox and some Conservative authorities rule that it is prohibited to turn electric devices on or off as falling under one of the “39 categories of work (melachot)”

Back to your note:

Oh, and I’m sure you will report back here that the rabbi has never been contacted about you…just remember that fibbing is sinful in your religion as well as in mine.

Oh, I’ll do better than that. I’ll post an image of the letter here when he writes back. Perhaps that will convince you?

I hope you find your path. In the meanwhile – why are you pretending to be an Orthodox Jew?

 

[Valke2]

I am sure Rabbi Steinshaltz is intensely interested in how this debate turns out. Receiving letters from each of you asking if the other is legit is probably the highlight of his career.

 

[HashemEchad]

Oh this is too, too rich. First, it is forbidden to write on the holiday (just look at the rules above). Second, pressing a key is turning on-and-off a device according to Jewish law (because it makes an electrical contact and closes a switch each time you press a key).

Oh, I’ll do better than that. I’ll post an image of the letter here when he writes back. Perhaps that will convince you?

I hope you find your path.

Well then, I suppose there are a lot of religious Jews that are violating the law, according to your statements. Maybe you need to harass them too?

I was told that he had never heard of you. As I said earlier, I did not speak to him, but a rabbi we know did speak to him. That is all I know.

Please, will you respect my request not to post to or about me again? This is now the second or third time I have asked, and you are really turning me off to your religion in a major way, if this is how real Catholics act and behave.

 

[buffalo]

They no longer honor them as gods.

 

[Bible_Reader]

I was told that he had never heard of you. As I said earlier, I did not speak to him, but a rabbi we know did speak to him. That is all I know.

Thanks for the information. But, as we have already discussed – over the course of several days you didn’t bother to take me up on my offer to mention my name to him. I think that would help him remember me.

Well then, I suppose there are a lot of religious Jews that are violating the law, according to your statements. Maybe you need to harass them too?

I do not know any. Do you?

In the meanwhile, my friend, you are not frum.

 

[HashemEchad]

I am sure Rabbi Steinshaltz is intensely interested in how this debate turns out. Receiving letters from each of you asking if the other is legit is
probably the highlight of his career.

The rabbi did not receive a letter from me; when “Bible Reader” engaged in his name-dropping re: Rabbi Steinsaltz in this thread, I immediately recognized his name as that of a well-known rabbi who is personally known by a rabbi acquaintance of my family.

Hence, I asked my husband to ask said rabbi to inquire as to whether Rabbi Steinsaltz knows a Catholic who is fluent in Hebrew and has had many engaging discussions with him in said language. The report I received back is that he does not know him.

I think “Bible Reader” is perturbed because he never expected me to do that, but I had my reasons for being suspicious. That probably explains why he tore into his lengthy attack, even going so far as to claim he does not think I am Jewish. Those are the actions of a person perturbed because they were exposed–at least that is how it seems to me.

 

[Bible_Reader]

I think “Bible Reader” is perturbed because he never expected me to do that, but I had my reasons for being suspicious. That probably explains why he tore into his lengthy attack, even going so far as to claim he does not think I am Jewish. Those are the actions of a person perturbed because they were exposed–at least that is how it seems to me.

Thanks for your opinion. In fact, since you mentioned you were going to check on me, I welcomed it. I asked you to PM me for details. You didn’t. You said you were too busy – but somehow you found time to make five more posts (over the course over two hours) on that day – and 50 posts on the following day. This can be quickly verified by reading the whole thread (as long as it has become).

In any case, I hope you can one day learn more about Judaism – maybe even learn Hebrew – there is a lot of wonderful literature about Judaism published in Hebrew. It is truly a wonderful religion, although I am happier to be a Catholic.

HashemEchad, I want you to know this – it is never too late to do teshuva. Also, I forgive you for all that you have said against me.

 

[HashemEchad]

I am sorry to the others in this thread, because of the way a personal attack against me derailed the discussion.

I could have explained to “Bible Reader” about a very distressing and personal situation we have in our family with an elderly relative who has a pacemaker and Life Alert, which requires us to have telephone service and internet service on and available at all times…something for which we have received a heter from our rabbi. I realize this does not apply to message forums, but Shavuot is not like other holydays in which stricter rules apply (and I explained that to BR).

But it is obvious to me that BR had a vendetta against me because I called his bluff on something he was making claims about.

I am not going to lower myself to go into this any further.

To avoid similar personal attacks in the future, I will not do here what is permissible for me, if it is going to be misinterpreted by people with an axe to grind against me. Interestingly, this fits with a discussion we had elsewhere on this forum, about how things appear to the eye.

And since Bible Reader refuses, evidently, to respect my request to stop posting to me, I am going to leave this thread so that he will have no reason to keep attacking me here.

And BR? I’m personally glad you are a Catholic and not a Jew. Really.

 

[Bible_Reader]

Oh, HashemEchad, I had thought you had put me on “ignore.” I wonder how many times I can get you to say “I’m going now, I really mean it this time.” However, since you post an average of 18 times a day on this forum, I’m sure we will interact again.

Thanks for the smile though – I loved reading that because of the life threatening emergency you had to make fifty posts on a holiday on this forum, instead of learning Torah! I suppose that is an example of:

A truly Orthodox Jew davens three times a day, keeps strictly glatt kosher, is totally shomer Torah, shomer negiah, sends their children to Orthodox day schools, studies in kollel, uses the mikveh when needed, and every second of their day is determined by Jewish Law.

(By the way, I loved how you said you need to send your children to Orthodox day school to be Orthodox, and then later admited that you don’t do that!)

It is funny, because none of your posts seemed to have anything to do with any matters of life and death. Do you remember the part in the New Testament where Jesus Christ criticized the Pharisees for hypocrisy?

I hope that you can understand that it is a bit odd that you go out of your way to put down people who claim to be Orthodox Jews, and then you

1. 
   *]first blatantly violate Orthodox Jewish law;
   *]then claim that it is not a law;
   *]then admit that it is a law, but claim that it is not an important law, because other people violate it; and
   *]finally admit that it is an important law, but claim you have a special exception that lets you post 50 times on a holiday because it is a matter of “life and death”.
   You have fallen off the derech, my friend.
   
   But what is amazing is how you like to accuse people of lying, and then “fib” (by saying you “didn’t have time to PM me” when you continued to interact on this forum for two hours after my message).
   
   It is a little sad, really. You know, whichever way you choose to go, people will forgive you. If you want to become a Reform Jew, they will readily accept you. If you want to do *teshuva *and start keeping shomer shabbos, the Orthodox will accept you (although you must first admit your sin and ask forgiveness). And if you want to return home to the Catholicism of one of your parents, that is good too.
   
   In any case, as I mentioned above, I forgive you. (No lifnei iver here!)