Why don't Latin Rite Catholics do first Communion and Confirm at baptism like Eastern Rite Catholics?

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I understand confirmation is something kids are supposed to make a conscious decision about when there older, but alot of them seemed pressuered or do it anyway because they think they have too, but really don’t understand much about their faith because of lack of home instruction or a lack of faith on part of the family or are pushed into it in general, at least thats what I hear. So why don’t we confirm at baptism like the Eastern Rite Catholics?
 
May I suggest you read the excellent article “Sacrament of Confirmation: What Is It All About?” by Thomas Sullivan ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/CONFIRM1.HTM . The section “The Age of Confirmation” specifically addresses your question, but the entire article is worth reading. In the article Mr. Sullivan dispels the common myths that the Sacrament of Confirmation is about “choice” or “adulthood,” but contends rather that it is a sacrament of strengthening that should be administered around the age of reason.

Mr. Sullivan has recently published a book on the topic: womenofgrace.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=863 . I have not read it yet, but I assume it would expand on the same themes as the article.
 
May I suggest you read the excellent article “Sacrament of Confirmation: What Is It All About?” by Thomas Sullivan ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/CONFIRM1.HTM . The section “The Age of Confirmation” specifically addresses your question, but the entire article is worth reading. In the article Mr. Sullivan dispels the common myths that the Sacrament of Confirmation is about “choice” or “adulthood,” but contends rather that it is a sacrament of strengthening that should be administered around the age of reason.

Mr. Sullivan has recently published a book on the topic: womenofgrace.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=863 . I have not read it yet, but I assume it would expand on the same themes as the article.
True, but then why don’t we adminsiter it then instead of waiting until there teenagers.
 
True, but then why don’t we adminsiter it then instead of waiting until there teenagers.
Because, unfortunately, when parents started going to Church less and many kids started dropping out of Religious Education right after Confirmation the bishops used late confirmation as a means to keeping kids in church and in religious ed. I was confirmed at the age of 7 as was my brother, this in the early 60s. By the mid 70s it had moved to the pre-teen years and then to late high school.

My former diocese celebrated Confirmation before First Communion, at the same Mass, for 9 years. Kids 6 and up who were ready could be confirmed and receive Communion. Then our diocese was suppressed & joined with another suppressed to form a 3rd, new diocese. The diocese we were joined to had had Confirmation in grade 11 or 12. As a compromise, kids can be presented for Confirmation anytime from grade 6 and up. I feel we have been the losers in the deal. We have no Catholic schools (or I should say, the diocese has 1, private Catholic school but only the kids from a specific city have access to that one) so all the rel. ed. is taught at the parish level.
 
Because, unfortunately, when parents started going to Church less and many kids started dropping out of Religious Education right after Confirmation the bishops used late confirmation as a means to keeping kids in church and in religious ed. I was confirmed at the age of 7 as was my brother, this in the early 60s. By the mid 70s it had moved to the pre-teen years and then to late high school.

My former diocese celebrated Confirmation before First Communion, at the same Mass, for 9 years. Kids 6 and up who were ready could be confirmed and receive Communion. Then our diocese was suppressed & joined with another suppressed to form a 3rd, new diocese. The diocese we were joined to had had Confirmation in grade 11 or 12. As a compromise, kids can be presented for Confirmation anytime from grade 6 and up. I feel we have been the losers in the deal. We have no Catholic schools (or I should say, the diocese has 1, private Catholic school but only the kids from a specific city have access to that one) so all the rel. ed. is taught at the parish level.
11 or 12? I’m 15 and I got confirmed at 13 in 7th grade, I voluntarily stayed in PSR. A few kids dropped out, but about 5 or 6 other kids stayed, I don’t remember how many really but some stayed.
 
Because, unfortunately, when parents started going to Church less and many kids started dropping out of Religious Education right after Confirmation the bishops used late confirmation as a means to keeping kids in church and in religious ed.
It is no secret that catechesis in the Latin church is a problem. It is the biggest excuse one will find posted here for people leaving, ie "they never knew their Faith’. Aside from the people active on discussion forums (which expose one to a great deal, good and bad) it seems that most Catholics have about a third grade level of knowledge of their religion.

Of course I generalize here. As in most things there are a lot of exceptions.

In eastern Christian churches where the confirmation is done with baptism there is no sense of this ‘finality’ in one’s religious training. The religious education is separate and distinct from the sacrament and there is more emphasis on getting it one’s training right, it does not cease with a “goal” of confirmation, since that was usually done when the kids were small.

That whole ‘age of reason’ rationale associated with the reception of the three initiatory sacraments is ultimately untenable, and this was not an understanding of the early church.
 
I understand confirmation is something kids are supposed to make a conscious decision about when there older, but alot of them seemed pressuered or do it anyway because they think they have too, but really don’t understand much about their faith because of lack of home instruction or a lack of faith on part of the family or are pushed into it in general, at least thats what I hear. So why don’t we confirm at baptism like the Eastern Rite Catholics?
I haven’t read any of the articles mentioned but something to consider is that the beauty, sign, and fullness of the sacraments is too great to be experienced in the lives of individuals. We know that the reception of some sacraments is limited by sex and marital status. But even baptism and confirmation are so full of meaning and symbolism (in addition to the reality of what happens, of course) for us to truly comprehend.

Some of our protestant brothers and sisters think we should wait to baptize. Western Catholics generally take a similar view about confirmation. Western Catholics originally did not receive First Communion prior to confirmation. Rationally these sacraments seem to have greater meaning and sign when they are conferred on adults (age of reason) in the proper order. But we know the sacraments are so much more than what they symbolize. Catholics understand that you can’t withhold baptism for the sake of the symbolism given by adult reception. Eastern Christians feel the same about Chrismation (confirmation). The west allows First Communion “out of order”. Somehow, in all this craziness, we try to balance the good of the individual against what is good for the Church as a whole. (Which means we sometimes fail both.)

My guess is that the West will eventually restore confirmation to an earlier age (and prior to First Communion) but still not so early as the East. It will probably take at least a generation or two (if not longer) for that to happen.
 
My guess is that the West will eventually restore confirmation to an earlier age (and prior to First Communion) but still not so early as the East. It will probably take at least a generation or two (if not longer) for that to happen.
There’s nothing stopping Bishops from having Confirmation before First Communion in their dioceses. In fact, it seems that it’s becoming the norm in more dioceses each year.

OTOH, Canon Law doesn’t allow it at the time of infant Baptism unless there’s danger of death. It seems incomprehensible to me that you can confirm an infant if death is imminent yet you set the ‘norm’ as practically adulthood, thereby denying teens the grace that could be very helpful at that time in their life.
 
It has long disturbed me how much disagreement/variation/lack of understanding there is surrounding the Sacrament of Confirmation: what is its purpose, when it should be received, etc. You could ask a dozen different “good,” “well-informed” Catholics, including priests and bishops, and get a dozen different answers.

The fact that the Eastern and Latin Catholic Churches treat it so differently is a prime example.

I think there needs to be some serious study of these issues at high levels (perhaps the Congregation in Rome in charge of the sacraments), some decisions toward a more unified approach, and then some widespread catechesis. (If you are about to say that the Church has already spoken on the matter, then it needs to be applied more uniformly.)

I am a catechist for a Confirmation class, and I am supposed to teach these kids what the sacrament is, etc. I can’t possibly explain to them why we are doing it at this age (6th-9th graders) when authorities within the Church can’t even agree on it. Sacrament of initiation? Sacrament of “choice”/“adulthood”? I have heard it all, and more. Personally I like the “sacrament of strengthening” idea, and if this is the meaning of the sacrament, I think kids need to be strengthened well before junior high school age when many of them have become jaded and are ready to abandon their faith, or are just going through the motions.

I also question the approach to catechesis for Confirmation. In the dioceses I have lived in during my adult life (several), Confirmation preparation requires extra classes, hours and hours of service projects, an interview with the pastor, participation in a day-long retreat, memorization of a long list of questions and answers that the bishop can ask them during Mass, etc. None of these things are bad in and of themselves, but seen as a whole may become a stress-ridden burden for confirmandi (and perhaps for catechists and parents who have to put the kids through all these hoops). Is it any wonder that after Confirmation none of the kids want to return for any further religious education?

It is almost as if Confirmation is the time we make the kids catch up with everything they may have failed to learn over the previous six to twelve years of catechesis. All this gives Confirmation more of a reputation as a “graduation ceremony,” and Confirmation preparation the “cramming for the final exam” of catechesis rather than one stage in a lifelong process of learning. It’s a sacrament, not a diploma!
 
It has long disturbed me how much disagreement/variation/lack of understanding there is surrounding the Sacrament of Confirmation: what is its purpose, when it should be received, etc. You could ask a dozen different “good,” “well-informed” Catholics, including priests and bishops, and get a dozen different answers.

The fact that the Eastern and Latin Catholic Churches treat it so differently is a prime example.

I think there needs to be some serious study of these issues at high levels (perhaps the Congregation in Rome in charge of the sacraments), some decisions toward a more unified approach, and then some widespread catechesis. (If you are about to say that the Church has already spoken on the matter, then it needs to be applied more uniformly.)

I am a catechist for a Confirmation class, and I am supposed to teach these kids what the sacrament is, etc. I can’t possibly explain to them why we are doing it at this age (6th-9th graders) when authorities within the Church can’t even agree on it. Sacrament of initiation? Sacrament of “choice”/“adulthood”? I have heard it all, and more. Personally I like the “sacrament of strengthening” idea, and if this is the meaning of the sacrament, I think kids need to be strengthened well before junior high school age when many of them have become jaded and are ready to abandon their faith, or are just going through the motions.

I also question the approach to catechesis for Confirmation. In the dioceses I have lived in during my adult life (several), Confirmation preparation requires extra classes, hours and hours of service projects, an interview with the pastor, participation in a day-long retreat, memorization of a long list of questions and answers that the bishop can ask them during Mass, etc. None of these things are bad in and of themselves, but seen as a whole may become a stress-ridden burden for confirmandi (and perhaps for catechists and parents who have to put the kids through all these hoops). Is it any wonder that after Confirmation none of the kids want to return for any further religious education?

It is almost as if Confirmation is the time we make the kids catch up with everything they may have failed to learn over the previous six to twelve years of catechesis. All this gives Confirmation more of a reputation as a “graduation ceremony,” and Confirmation preparation the “cramming for the final exam” of catechesis rather than one stage in a lifelong process of learning. It’s a sacrament, not a diploma!
I didn’t go on a retreat, my younger brother did, but not me. I will say that being confirmed was a very positive thing on me, it helped lit the spark of faith I have today.
 
OTOH, Canon Law doesn’t allow it at the time of infant Baptism unless there’s danger of death.

Correction, dear soul. Your sentence should read “LATIN Canon Law doesn’t allow…” The Canons of the Eastern Churches require it in infancy.
 
That whole ‘age of reason’ rationale associated with the reception of the three initiatory sacraments is ultimately untenable, and this was not an understanding of the early church.
And ultimately the original reason why the Sacrament of Confirmation was kept to a latter age in the Latin Church was not because of any “age of reason” rationale, but rather out of a desire to maintain the even more ancient practice of having bishops give Confirmation/Chrismation, not priests.

From the CCC:
1290 In the first centuries Confirmation generally comprised one single celebration with Baptism, forming with it a “double sacrament,” according to the expression of St. Cyprian. Among other reasons, the multiplication of infant baptisms all through the year, the increase of rural parishes, and the growth of dioceses often prevented the bishop from being present at all baptismal celebrations. In the West the desire to reserve the completion of Baptism to the bishop caused the temporal separation of the two sacraments. The East has kept them united, so that Confirmation is conferred by the priest who baptizes. But he can do so only with the “myron” consecrated by a bishop.
1291 A custom of the Roman Church facilitated the development of the Western practice: a double anointing with sacred chrism after Baptism. The first anointing of the neophyte on coming out of the baptismal bath was performed by the priest; it was completed by a second anointing on the forehead of the newly baptized by the bishop. The first anointing with sacred chrism, by the priest, has remained attached to the baptismal rite; it signifies the participation of the one baptized in the prophetic, priestly, and kingly offices of Christ. If Baptism is conferred on an adult, there is only one post-baptismal anointing, that of Confirmation.
1292 The practice of the Eastern Churches gives greater emphasis to the unity of Christian initiation. That of the Latin Church more clearly expresses the communion of the new Christian with the bishop as guarantor and servant of the unity, catholicity and apostolicity of his Church, and hence the connection with the apostolic origins of Christ’s Church.
Even today, as paragraph 1292 shows, the real reason and meaning is not because of an “age of reason” rationale. Rather, it is because of the desire to express the communion of the newly initiated with the bishop and therefore more clearly express the apostolicity of the Church and the sacrament of Chrismation itself.

Both East and West provide a complementary (and thus, complete) understanding of the sacrament by the difference in time when the sacrament is administered. It is a difference of emphasis, ultimately.
 
If one wants to avoid confirmation until the age of reason (and I agree that wasn’t the reasoning originally) then I think it makes much more sense to wait until kids are teens rather than at age 7 or so. A 7 year old can understand, to a degree, right and wrong, and be responsible, to a degree, for his own actions. But they have not reached the age of abstract thought yet, nor the age where they are able to be critical of others’ reasoning. If it is to really represent the person’s own choice, then 7 is too young.
 
If one wants to avoid confirmation until the age of reason (and I agree that wasn’t the reasoning originally) then I think it makes much more sense to wait until kids are teens rather than at age 7 or so. A 7 year old can understand, to a degree, right and wrong, and be responsible, to a degree, for his own actions. But they have not reached the age of abstract thought yet, nor the age where they are able to be critical of others’ reasoning. If it is to really represent the person’s own choice, then 7 is too young.
But then why give Communion? That’s a person’s own choice too, isn’t it?
 
In the “old days” I made my First Communion in 3rd grade and my Confirmation in 5th grade. I feel that was the best time to make both - 8/9 years of age for Communion and 10/11 years of age for Confirmation. It made more sense to me because these are the formative years and I think there is more acceptance by children to the sacraments at these ages before ‘attitude’ sets in. I wish the bishops here in the U.S. would go back to that age timetable. They might have better luck retaining their membership.
 
In the “old days” I made my First Communion in 3rd grade and my Confirmation in 5th grade. I feel that was the best time to make both - 8/9 years of age for Communion and 10/11 years of age for Confirmation. It made more sense to me because these are the formative years and I think there is more acceptance by children to the sacraments at these ages before ‘attitude’ sets in. I wish the bishops here in the U.S. would go back to that age timetable. They might have better luck retaining their membership.
I was 6 when I made my First Communion at the end of 1st grade and 7 when I was confirmed at the end of 2nd grade. It was that way in my diocese, everyone who had already received Communion was confirmed the next time the bishop came to the village (usually he visited every 2 years). IIRC, my 6 year old brother and I were both confirmed at the same ceremony since I’d received Communion the year before and he’d received it a few weeks before.
 
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