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T_Hope
Guest
Someone asked me this yesterday and I had to admit I really do not know.
Thanks,
Hope
Thanks,
Hope
Why Don't Mormons Go to Church on Christmas if Christmas Doesn't Fall on a Sunday?
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True_Believer_1
Guest
In the most simple terms possibe, BECAUSE MORMONS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS!
That’s it.
May The One True God Bless You And Keep You Always!
NOT JUST STRONG…CATHOLIC STRONG!!!
That’s it.
May The One True God Bless You And Keep You Always!
NOT JUST STRONG…CATHOLIC STRONG!!!
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Marie5890
Guest
There is no theological reason one way or the other that I was aware of…
They only hold services of Sundays…
The one thing I was told when I first became LDS was so that the families could be together at home…But that explanation didnt have any real strong reasoning behind it…
It’s just how Mormons are…
I will say that I never experience a sense of profound worship until I experienced Holy Week and esp the Triduum.
Mormon services are much more commemorative a sense. The idea of “entering into the mystery” of Christ sacrifice isn’t part of their prism.
They are just a very very different brand of religious faith and how they live it.
They only hold services of Sundays…
The one thing I was told when I first became LDS was so that the families could be together at home…But that explanation didnt have any real strong reasoning behind it…
It’s just how Mormons are…
I will say that I never experience a sense of profound worship until I experienced Holy Week and esp the Triduum.
Mormon services are much more commemorative a sense. The idea of “entering into the mystery” of Christ sacrifice isn’t part of their prism.
They are just a very very different brand of religious faith and how they live it.
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Matthew_Holford
Guest
So, what happens at an LDS Sunday worship service?
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BartBurk
Guest
A lot of Protestant churches don’t have services on Christmas Day either. The Puritans didn’t even celebrate Christmas as I recall. Many of the denominations that descend from them don’t have a tradition of Christmas services.
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Marie5890
Guest
Its a three hour block
Sacrament Meeting—a hour, a bit more. Opening hymn, prayer, any ward(parish) business, then the administering of the sacrament.
(Hymn while the boys set up it, they they say the prayers over the bread, passed out to congregation (you dont go up to receive, it is brought to you on plates and you take a piece and pass it down the row/pew…very protestant kind of distribution, same proceedure with the water)
After the sacrament is over talks are given by members of the ward who have been asked to speak that week. They are told what the topic of the week is. Most talks last about 8-10 mins, 3 talks.
There normally is a hymn sung sometime during this as a break.
Closing prayer and hymn.
The other two hours in the 3 hour block are Sunday School
And then Priesthood Meeting for men-Relief Society for women, and age appropriate meetings for the kids.
The youth (ages 12-18) are also segragated by gender–Girls go to “Young Women” classes based on their age, and the boys got to their priesthood meetings. (Mormon males receive the "Aaronic priesthood at the age of 12…)
Its during Sunday School (study of the scriptures) and Priesthood/Relief Society/ etc etc that a lot of teaching of the faith goes on.
If I were to make a very very general statement of comparison having lived both I would say this.
Mormons strength in their services is in teaching and instructing of their faith.
It’s sense of “worshipping” is weaker in comparison
Catholics strength is its sense of worship during the Mass. But the weakness is it’s lack of instruction of the faith.
The average Mormon is far more well versed in what they believe and what tenets of their faith is than the average Catholic has been my observation.
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flameburns623
Guest
Frankly that is the major strength of MOST Evangelical or Pentecostal Protestants.
Roman Catholics simply have NO tradition of on-going formal instruction in the faith for adults, and the religious teaching many have received in parochial schools over the past half-century has been abyssymal.
Nice rhetoric but factually simply untrue.
Erroneous first, because Mormons are not the only separated Christian brethren who do not worship on Christmas: many Evangelical Protestants do not consider the Bible to authorize any holy days.
For this reason, some do not even meet weekly (but rather, bi-weekly or even monthly).
Some do not observe Sunday as the Lord’s Day, because no explicit Scripture clearly identifies Sunday as such.
Erroneous, second, because Mormons ARE a Christian sect.
Mormons have a heretical view of the historical Person we all revere as Jesus Christ.
Catholic and Protestant apologists love to point up the ways in which Mormon understandings of Jesus diverge from orthodoxy.
Sometimes those deviations are overstated, doing harm to the cause of Christian apologetics, which should always be conducted fairly and in charity.
In some respects the LDS view–even when accurately defined–is so radical that it is fair to suggest that the Mormon Jesus is a ‘different Jesus’ from the Jesus embraced by historic Christianity, just as the Apostle Paul warned against being deceived by a different Gospel.
In making this point, however, we should not overstress it so far that we forget that Latter-Day Saints ARE ultimately Christians, however misguided or deceived we feel them to be.
God Bless!
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Prince_Hal
Guest
Nice summary and agreed that you say “very, very general statement of comparison”.
Mormons sacramant services are about reinforcing their faith through talks. It is often a simple repitition of parts of talks by the General Authorities (their church leaders). Huge emphasis on the book of mormon, to the neglect of the Bible. The talks are often used to give the members practice at standing up and speaking. You will often hear a speaker say “this talk is for me - I have learned so much”. Often it feels more like being at business school than at a church. Many people try to crack jokes and get laughs like an after dinner speach.
I think more is learned at a Catholic Mass simply by virtue of the reading of scriptures and the liturgy - and to some extent the homily - than ever I heard at a mormon sacrament meeting (which I attend every week by the way). It is an exercise in back slapping and re-convincing themselves of their superiority. (This last weeks talk included the line that for one missionary those people who listened to him were the “elect” and those who did not were “freaks”. It got a laugh!!)
Sorry to be so negative. I think it is a powerful method of keeping people mormon but not of building faith in Jesus or the Father.
God Bless,
Hal.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
They do…they come to Mass, or attend other Christian worship services.
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JeanMichel
Guest
Mormons do not have a concept of Holy Days. If Christmas happens on another day of the week, then it just happens. It is interesting to see how many Mormons feel good about going to Christmas Mass or other church services. The majority just stay at home with their families and celebrate their own family traditions regarding the birth of Jesus. But, it is true that you find those who go elsewhere.
I have known Mormons who make Midnight Mass one of their annual ways of celebrating Christmas. I always appreciated their willingness to attend Catholic Mass.
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T_Hope
Guest
Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts. Spending time with family is important. But spending time with God is important too. And mass has become such a wonderful way for me to say thank-you to God for showing me the way home. To me, home is more than just my family. It’s all of you, too.
I will welcome our mormon friends to mass on Christmas day. I love them so much.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Hope
I will welcome our mormon friends to mass on Christmas day. I love them so much.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Hope
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ParkerD
Guest
Hope,
The reason really is that the Mormon church is guided directly by revelation from God, and God has revealed that the Sabbath Day (whether Saturday as in the time before the resurrection, or on Sunday as in after the resurrection) is to be kept as the Lord’s Day, the holy day for worship of God and Christ. Christmas Day, if it falls on Sunday, is special in that respect, but if not then it is special in remembering the birth of Christ, singing carols as families and with loved ones together, and rejoicing in the blessings of peace on earth surrounded by loved ones.
Hoping yours will be a wonderful day of rejoicing in those blessings, also.
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Prince_Hal
Guest
Families are important and sacred. But again the Mormon emphasis is on self and the extension of self - the family. Who can decry that? But where us God? He is no longer the focus. Where is the worship and adoration of Him? We do it through loving our families is the Mormon reply. Mormonism is self centered, but certainly not God focused. Love of family - a great good - becomes the excuse for not loving Him totally. Godhood (a false doctrine), before total subjection to Him.
Hal
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ParkerD
Guest
Hal,
Your opinion about family, certainly not shared by the apostles nor by Christ within His own family, would be a fairly evident reason why the Mormon church was not a good fit for you.
Families are not “self-centered.” A mother quickly becomes “other-centered”, a father also if he is watching over the welfare and development of his wife and children, with love. Being other-centered is all about what families are–but the world unfortunately has in some cases lost track of this.
God wants strong families, families where fathers take their role seriously and mothers also, and where grandparents gather their grandchildren and share their learned wisdom, including how Christ has helped them in their lives and how God loves them despite whatever challenges they may have faced in their lives. That is the reality of sharing God’s love. Mormons do this consistently, with family gatherings that are a strong point of their religion, and it is a wonderful thing.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
There is nothing more joyful to me than my family and I together, at Mass, on Christmas Eve. Celebrating the Birth of Jesus and worshiping the Son of God. Hearing the Gospel proclaimed, and singing Alleluia.
To this idea that Sunday is the Sabbath, well yeah, of course, but it is not designated as the one and only day that God can be worshiped, together, as a community of believers.
That argument is just silly. Jesus must have been born on a Sunday otherwise it could not have been a Holy Night.
It is God who makes our days Holy, not us.
To this idea that Sunday is the Sabbath, well yeah, of course, but it is not designated as the one and only day that God can be worshiped, together, as a community of believers.
That argument is just silly. Jesus must have been born on a Sunday otherwise it could not have been a Holy Night.
It is God who makes our days Holy, not us.
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Prince_Hal
Guest
ParkerD, I disagree with nothing that you have said. I tried to make it clear in my post that I felt the family was so important. By “self” centered I should gave used “family” perhaps. Of course by being in a family were must sacrifice every day. I have five children - so I know that well. So my apologies for the confusion.
God wants strong families you say? Agreed, that sounds in keeping with what I understand. But does not God want something more than that? Does He not want a complete giving of an individual to Him - above all else. Being the best family person in the world does not necessarily give you what is the most important thing to God. Though I do agree that it certainly is a great step. God wants us totally and completely. What I see in Mormonism is this concentration on family (which is good) to the down-rating of the relationship with God. Agreed that we come closer to God - or at least can do - as we serve in our families. But Mormonism as practiced seems to hold that as the Holy Grail.
I hope that this clarifies what I meant - undoubtedly badly worded first and second times probably. God wants us to have “strong” families. So long as that means families that are helping each other to Him, then yes. Strong families so they can keep themselves loyal to bro. Monson and the LDS church, then no, except in those things that bring them to Him. LDS seem to have the order something like: LDS church first, family second, God third. What I am suggesting is that God deserves and demands first place by an infinite amount, and family and church are secondary. If we have that order, then we will love and sacrifice for our families. We do it in Him, with Him, through Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit. Who is our ultimate loyalty to? The current LDS prophet? He knows the way the LDS people sing. No, Christ knows the way. Jesus even said that the person who was not willing to forsake father and mother, etc was not worthy of the kingdom. He did not tell us to forsake them , but that we would be willing to do so. Why? Because God is supreme. I do not see that in the vast number if LDS. It is there in some. But the general populace of Mormons think that God approves of this relating of Himself into second place - because He is ultimately humble.
Hope thus clarifies.
Hal.
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ParkerD
Guest
Hal,
That did clarify tremendously, and I appreciate that.
It doesn’t seem from your post that you understand the relationship between the LDS prophet and the people, and between the people and Christ.
President Monson is well-known as having visited hundreds of widows during all the years of his life after about age 22. He has given them his love and encouragement consistently through the years. That is what President Monson is about–loving others, especially those who would have little opportunity to reciprocate but yet were in need of being visited and encouraged. People who meet with President Monson and spend time with him, find quickly that his chief quality is that he really does have Christ-like love for others.
That is called being an example. That is not in any way replacing Christ–it is doing exactly what the Bible teaches should be done, and is prophesied to be done:
Jeremiah 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
To follow Christ is to be changed by Him, and a person changed by Him will be other-centered but that other-centered love should not bypass family to look for others to love–it should start with family.
As far as the verse you quoted taught by Christ, here it is in context:
Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
Those verses are about the Jews and the Gentiles during the time of Christ when the people are asked to leave their family traditions, but they double also as pre-Second Coming verses (see v. 37) describing the conditions at that time (our time).
The division of the “father against the son,” and so forth within families, is precisely what happens when one or some within a family leave their “tradition” and embrace the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Then is fulfilled the verse I noted in Jeremiah 3, “two of a family”.
(Continuation to follow)
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ParkerD
Guest
Continuation:
After that happens, then it should not be regarded that a succeeding generation stays divided, if the parents learn to teach with love and to guide their children to love God and keep His commandments. Then, if they teach well but yet allow free will and choice by their children, there is a hoped-for blessing that–
Isa. 54: 13
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
This happens when each child is given personal revelation and is thus “taught of the Lord”.
When this happens, eventually shall be fulfilled the prophecy of Jeremiah:
31: 31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
So we see that the direction the true gospel heads within the new covenant gospel is within families where the children learn to know the Lord by personal revelation, and to know His guidance in their life through the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then they become all the more supportive of family, but yet they also reach out in unselfishness to others, just as LDS do in communities and in “quiet resting places” in many places throughout the world. This is the reality of strong, gospel covenant families with Christ at the very center of their thoughts and hearts and attitudes about life.
I have seen this happen within my own children. It really is the reality of the “early end times” (latter-day) prophecies and promises being fulfilled.
The gathering of Israel ultimately unites the children of Israel, the house of Judah and the house of Israel, as noted in Jeremiah and so many other prophecies in the Old Testament.
After that happens, then it should not be regarded that a succeeding generation stays divided, if the parents learn to teach with love and to guide their children to love God and keep His commandments. Then, if they teach well but yet allow free will and choice by their children, there is a hoped-for blessing that–
Isa. 54: 13
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
This happens when each child is given personal revelation and is thus “taught of the Lord”.
When this happens, eventually shall be fulfilled the prophecy of Jeremiah:
31: 31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
So we see that the direction the true gospel heads within the new covenant gospel is within families where the children learn to know the Lord by personal revelation, and to know His guidance in their life through the gift of the Holy Ghost. Then they become all the more supportive of family, but yet they also reach out in unselfishness to others, just as LDS do in communities and in “quiet resting places” in many places throughout the world. This is the reality of strong, gospel covenant families with Christ at the very center of their thoughts and hearts and attitudes about life.
I have seen this happen within my own children. It really is the reality of the “early end times” (latter-day) prophecies and promises being fulfilled.
The gathering of Israel ultimately unites the children of Israel, the house of Judah and the house of Israel, as noted in Jeremiah and so many other prophecies in the Old Testament.
C
Carlan
Guest
I have lived in the path of the so called Bible belt for the past ten years and I have noticed that all their parking lots are emty over Christmas:shrug:
May all Christians pray and prepare for the holiness of Christ’s birth during the coming forty days of Advent. Peace, Carlan
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Prince_Hal
Guest
ParkerD:
Again, I find very little to disgree with. Bro. Monsoon has been a great example of loving and caring. Families are used to transmit teachings of Christ and faith, and the commandments.
In the last general conference there were two talks by general authorities that quite clearly stated that the current prophet was more important than previous LDS prophets and scriptural prophets, and the LDS prophet was more important than the Bible. Basically do what the prophet says. God is again moved to one side as He is revealed to us in the Bible, in favor of the interpretation given by the LDS prophet. Part of that replacement is the incorrect positioning of the family as being the key to the relationship with God. Important it is, but above God it is not. Again this is an ever so slight deviation from course that looks honorable, but leads astray. We are heading into another topic here that focuses on genealogy - so I will avoid it here.
So the content of what you say I do not disagree with. It is the relative (not absolute) emphasis that you give to families over God.
As o disagreed with the Sunday school teacher last week, the latter day gathering is not to the LDS church, but it is to God, one by one, child of God, by child of God.
Thank you for your scripture quotes.
Hal.
Again, I find very little to disgree with. Bro. Monsoon has been a great example of loving and caring. Families are used to transmit teachings of Christ and faith, and the commandments.
In the last general conference there were two talks by general authorities that quite clearly stated that the current prophet was more important than previous LDS prophets and scriptural prophets, and the LDS prophet was more important than the Bible. Basically do what the prophet says. God is again moved to one side as He is revealed to us in the Bible, in favor of the interpretation given by the LDS prophet. Part of that replacement is the incorrect positioning of the family as being the key to the relationship with God. Important it is, but above God it is not. Again this is an ever so slight deviation from course that looks honorable, but leads astray. We are heading into another topic here that focuses on genealogy - so I will avoid it here.
So the content of what you say I do not disagree with. It is the relative (not absolute) emphasis that you give to families over God.
As o disagreed with the Sunday school teacher last week, the latter day gathering is not to the LDS church, but it is to God, one by one, child of God, by child of God.
Thank you for your scripture quotes.
Hal.
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