H
Hodos
Guest
Refer back to the OP for the original topic of the forum. Unless of course you never intended to engage in on-topic discussion to begin with and were just looking to pick arguments with people.
Last edited:
Why don't (most) Protestants consider Christian ministers to be priests?
- Status
A
AugustTherese
Guest
What doctrinal error?
L
ltwin
Guest
No, but someone could read the Bible and, by the power of the Holy Spirit, cry out to God for forgiveness and receive it just as someone who confesses his sin to a priest.
Preaching could be an application of this passage. If I am living in sin, and such sin is preached against then I am being told that I am a sinner. Forgiveness is withheld. And if I am convicted and moved to repentance, then the forgiveness proclaimed in the preaching of the gospel is extended to me.
There are many churches that I know I could direct you to if you lived around me. Since you are an anonymous person on the internet who could live anywhere, yes I’m afraid I’ll have to be general. I have no idea what every church everywhere in the world is like.
Last edited:
H
Hodos
Guest
Again refer back to the OP, for what was being discussed. I am certain if you follow the discussion you will pick up the Protestant position that was being explained. Unless of course, that wasn’t your intention to start.
A
AugustTherese
Guest
Really? Then what was the point of Christ granting the Apostles the authority to forgive and retain sins? Why did not Christ hand out copies of the Scriptures when people came to him for healing and forgiveness?
So, hearing the preaching of the gospel forgives sins?
So, the ‘churches’ where you live proclaim the fullness of the Gospel? Do you belong to all of them or attend all of them? Which one of these ‘churches’ was the one that Christ began?
A
AugustTherese
Guest
Is that your thing? You make statements just to make statements without providing ample evidence. You accuse me of making doctrinal error and when asked how and where, you shy away and cop out. Please, stop making false accusations.
H
Hodos
Guest
No, its my thing to mention that you completely mischaracterized the Protestant position which was the purpose of this forum thread for the sole purpose of being contentious, and without any evidence to back up your claim. After that, I’m off the hook with having to engage you further since its obvious you are not interested in meaningful dialogue.
Last edited:
L
ltwin
Guest
This authority accompanied the Apostles receiving the Spirit. All Christians have the Spirit. All Christians can announce forgiveness of sins and withhold forgiveness. The Bible teaches us what sin is and it also teaches us what the gospel is. If someone reads it and believes, then yes they will be forgiven.
Responding to the Gospel does.
A
AugustTherese
Guest
I provided quotes from your founder, Martin Luther, who believed in Mary’s perpetual virginity, Immaculate Conception, and Assumption. I provided a quote from Luther stating that he professed the Word of God came from the ‘Papists’. That is evidence that you have deliberately ignored and you will continue to ignore because is demolishes your own position. You have provided no evidence!
Last edited:
A
AugustTherese
Guest
Seriously? I can confess my personal sins to you and you can absolve me?! The forgiveness of sins that belongs to God alone and that scandalized the Pharisees belongs to any nominal Christian?!
Last edited:
H
Hodos
Guest
Again, all off topic and irrelevant to the discussion. However, to humor you I will respond. I have no issues with the fact of history that shows that it was the Catholic Church (both eastern and western) who transmitted the scriptures through the ages so that we have a faithful record of the apostolic teachings handed down to us today. This doesn’t “demolish” my argument, it is central to it. This is why we have a high view of scriptures, because it provides the faithful transmission of apostolic doctrine to us today. That being said, the faithful transmission of scripture doesn’t necessarily mean the faithful transmission of doctrine. The Marian dogmas actually provide some of the best illustrations of this.
And, I have no issue with Luther holding to some of the Roman Catholic doctrines of his day with regard to Mary. He was a Roman Catholic priest and doctor of theology, what else would you expect? By the way, that doesn’t mean he believed in the same definitions you provide today considering at least two were “declared” long after his day. And Luther and his successors, in their wisdom, knowing that some of the Marian dogmas could not be substantiated as apostolic by scriptural support, chose not to define them as dogmatic declarations of the Christian faith. Both topics irrelevant here and quite frankly foolishly proposed by you since they only knock your case because now I can refer to them as departures FROM apostolic succession, further justifying my point.
And, I have no issue with Luther holding to some of the Roman Catholic doctrines of his day with regard to Mary. He was a Roman Catholic priest and doctor of theology, what else would you expect? By the way, that doesn’t mean he believed in the same definitions you provide today considering at least two were “declared” long after his day. And Luther and his successors, in their wisdom, knowing that some of the Marian dogmas could not be substantiated as apostolic by scriptural support, chose not to define them as dogmatic declarations of the Christian faith. Both topics irrelevant here and quite frankly foolishly proposed by you since they only knock your case because now I can refer to them as departures FROM apostolic succession, further justifying my point.
A
AugustTherese
Guest
I mean, it just speaks for itself.
The irony. It’s just too much!
Last edited:
H
Hodos
Guest
Oh, you mean my response to your quip about sola scriptura (where you departed again from the forum thread) where you attempted to say the Trinity isn’t a scriptural doctrine? Yes, I agree, the irony is too much. Here I was defending Catholic doctrine that you were attempting to refute.
H
Hodos
Guest
Oh, you mean when I was referring to two of the confessions which demonstrate Protestant teaching of the relevant topic, which is ecclesiastical order and why we don’t refer to pastors as priests, and you then careened off course on an ill-informed quip about Sola Scriptura…Got it.
Last edited:
O
otrrl
Guest
with 99 replies already, this may have been said: the protestants will say that they can’t find a priesthood in the New Testament.
The NT does talk about “overseers.” “elders,” and "deacons, but nothing per se about priests.
With all due respect, I don’t care if protestants do or don’t recognize a priesthood in their denomination.
A Greek Orthodox priest was the author of a book I read on the subject of the Orthodox Church. His viewpoint was that from the OC perspective, protestants threw away too much from the church and Catholics added too much.
He also expressed regret that the reformers went off to establish their own churches, instead of joining the orthodox, which as you know has a valid priesthood and sacraments.
The NT does talk about “overseers.” “elders,” and "deacons, but nothing per se about priests.
With all due respect, I don’t care if protestants do or don’t recognize a priesthood in their denomination.
A Greek Orthodox priest was the author of a book I read on the subject of the Orthodox Church. His viewpoint was that from the OC perspective, protestants threw away too much from the church and Catholics added too much.
He also expressed regret that the reformers went off to establish their own churches, instead of joining the orthodox, which as you know has a valid priesthood and sacraments.
W
Wannano
Guest
Who are the “Prostestants” you could care less about? Is the Orthodox Church now Catholic?
L
ltwin
Guest
I don’t make a habit of taking confessions, but if you wanna . . .
It belongs to any Christian just as all Christians can proclaim the Word of God.
L
ltwin
Guest
It could be thought of as a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving for the one and only sacrifice for sin, the death of Christ on the cross. It is, in its essence, a sermon in and of itself. Paul says “For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.” The Eucharist is proclaiming the Word of God.
The minister reads the words of institution, prays and oversees Holy Communion, but he is not standing in the place of Christ. He is not going before God on behalf of the people.
Agreed.
And ordained ministers are not ministerial priests.
Last edited:
A
AugustTherese
Guest
May I ask where you get this from?
A
AugustTherese
Guest
Have you done this before?
- Status