Why don't non-catholic christians convert?

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t think Catholics should poo poo or underestimate the incredible importance of “friendship” and “fitting in” and “fellowship.” I think that’s a big reason why Protestants do not convert.

I have to be frank here, Peeps. You and a couple other Protestants (one who hasn’t converted but is married to a Catholic) have posted here a number of times talking about this issue. It doesn’t seem to be a universal one as I have in my travels met a number of converts who don’t have these problems. It may be a problem with your parish, or with what you enjoy doing vs. what the others in your parish like to do (I believe at one point you expressed some concern over Catholic social events usually involving alcohol, which isn’t your and your husband’s preference).

I’m not minimizing the problem but I constantly see the same issue being raised on here by the same people, while meeting other people (not all on this forum) who are not having the issue because they have found a parish or an activity where they fit in, enjoy themselves, have some social opportunities etc or else they are not really looking for that at church.

I guess what I’m saying is that the problem is going to vary. Just to give one example, I went to an Anglican Ordinariate Mass recently. Many of the people there were converts from Anglicanism, including the priest who was married with kids. Afterwards they had a social event. Everybody was getting along just fine and having fun and socializing.

Another example, I went to a sung Latin Mass recently. I didn’t know a soul there. They also had a reception afterwards with some snacks, and I went because I hadn’t had time to eat dinner before Mass and wanted to at least have a coffee and bagel before a long drive home. Everyone there was nice, I found a couple people to chat with, including one who attends a parish to which I also go.

Now if I were looking to go out to dinner with any of these people, maybe that wouldn’t have worked so well. They likely live at a distance from me and I’m more likely to call up some of my actual friends from work or hobbies to go to dinner as I’ve known them a long time, we get along etc but they aren’t terribly religious. I have never used my church as a place to meet people to hang out with on a daily basis. But when I go to coffee and donuts, or to receptions where we talk about something we have in common (latin Mass, Anglican Ordinariate, etc) it is fine and friendly and no one is giving me the cold shoulder becaues they don’t know me or have never seen me before. If someone does do that I figure they have a social anxiety problem or are having a bad day and just move to the next person.

This idea of Catholics as universally unfriendly just does not hold water, sorry.

 

[spockrates]

Feeling out of place. Was raised Catholic. Left the church. Tried returning. Handled the sitting, kneeling, standing just fine. But when people recited the words, I didn’t remember what to say. Felt out of place, embarrassed, unwelcome.

Maybe doing what mega nondenominational churches do would help? Display the words on a large screen for visitors to see?

 

[pulchraesamicamea]

Sorry about what you experienced. Does your church have manuals for visitors on the cabinet of the pews? (Or chairs, if that is what your church has?) My Canadian church has this, and for the Korean church I attend now give out manuals called ‘maeil-missa (매일미사: translation for ‘everyday mass’)’ that one can buy for 90 cents (900 won for Korea)

Would you be able to ask the priest of the parish and talk to him about this? Maybe he has a book for the RCIA candidates and he can give the book for you.

Pax Christi!

 

[HopkinsReb]

The doctrinal changes didn’t come en masse until after the death of Henry VIII. The split was the direct result of his desire for a divorce, not theological matters.

 

[halogirl]

You’re not making sense to me. Rather than answer the OP’s question you’d rather pick holes and snipe at my opinions on it. Not interested in arguing with you sorry.

 

[GKMotley]

Yes.

And, as always, decree of nullity.

 

[HopkinsReb]

And it certainly doesn’t do anything to address the other half of understanding the Anglican/Catholic split: why is the Anglican Church not regarded by Catholics as the Orthodox Church? The original split was political, and the doctrinal split wasn’t until later.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

They feel Martin Luther was correct in breaking away from the Catholic Church and it’s corruption of the time. In many cases, they believe the Church is still corrupt now. They don’t believe in tradition as much as sola scriptura and whatever their interpretation of that might be.

 

[HopkinsReb]

They feel Martin Luther was correct in breaking away from the Catholic Church and it’s corruption of the time.

I know Anglicans who believe that the reformers were quite wrong in breaking away from the Catholic Church, but that what’s done is done and they think that the Protestants’ rectitude (in their view) in matters of soteriology trumps the Catholics’ rectitude (sometimes in their view) in matters of ecclesiology.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

This is, of course, highly varied based on which non-Catholic denomination of Christianity we are talking.

 

[HopkinsReb]

This is, of course, highly varied based on which non-Catholic denomination of Christianity we are talking.

Of course. Just trying to avoid making a blanket statement!

Those would be folks like me, who don’t like to be identified by the term “Protestant” because we’re not protesting anything. We like the Catholic Church, but for various reasons aren’t convinced of the necessity of swimming the Tiber.

 

[Peeps]

I don’t think Catholics are “unfriendly.” They’re friendly enough at parish events. People say “hi” and wave and comment on my music and occasionally talk, although not for long.

I just think it’s hard for us to fit in and we never seem to be able to get together with any parishioners outside of the church building. My husband goes to movies alone (I don’t like movies much)–he can’t even find a “movie buddy.”

As for it being “our” problem–no one is more sociable than my daughter, who is beautiful, fun, interesting, educated, kind, and is comfortable drinking alcohol. But no one paid the slightest attention to her in the parish that she attended for many months. She met with the priest, the youth minister, the music minister. She cantored, she lectored, and she volunteered to work with the teens. She also sent invitations to various people asking them to consider attending a play that she worked with (professional, not amateur).

No one called her back or responded to her. She is very upset and I’m sorry to say bitter about the experience, and has stopped attending. There are plenty of other Catholic parishes in NYC, but most involve a trek from her apartment that she’s not willing to take.

Tis_Bearself, it would be different if we were friendless and lonely in the Protestant churches that we were involved with over the years. But we weren’t! We had friends. We went out. We had dinner parties and taco parties and picnics.

And in the Protestant churches where I play, I have friends. People invite us over.

Perhaps our parish is just too massive. Around 7000 people are enrolled, and around 500 attend each Mass (there are seven Masses on Sat/Sun). But the church that my husband grew up in had around 5000 members, and the fellowship was awesome! He still has friends that he keeps up with from that church!

We are hoping to retire in several years and move to a rural setting. Perhaps in the small town, we will have an easier time making friends at the small Catholic parish.

And I’ll be honest with you–it kinda hurts to be told that it’s Our Fault that we have no friends in our parish. If we didn’t have friends outside of the Church, we might be inclined to believe you and take some steps to be more approachable. But we DO have friends outside of the Church, and people do like us and we definitely don’t turn up our noses on people who choose to drink alcoholic beverages. So I don’t think we need to examine ourselves at our age and try to change our personalities and interests to be more appealing to people in our parish.

I think you and others should know that both of us have cried over this lack of Christian fellowship in our parish. I had a breakdown a few weeks ago (crying for several hours while my husband sat with tears in his eyes trying to comfort me). There were other issues (including too much Christmas), but one of the issues that kept coming up was loneliness. This isn’t just something that we shrug off or gripe about. We have honestly pretty much given up. Maybe it’s God’s way of teaching us to rely only on Him and not count on humans?

 

[Peeps]

Thanks so much . I can tell you get it.

If someone is not raised Catholic, or doesn’t marry someone who was raised Catholic, it’s hard to figure out “how Catholics fellowship.” Yet, I can walk into a Protestant church and have lunch with someone scheduled within an hour.

 

[Peeps]

I agree!! Overheads would be easier for many of us to read, too! And it would get our heads up!

 

[TC3033]

doesn’t marry someone who was raised Catholic, it’s hard to figure out “how Catholics fellowship.”

My wife was raised Catholic, we’ve been together almost 15 years and I still don’t get it…, try being the non-Catholic spouse. We double don’t fit in, there’s times I may as well not even be there and has been kind of awkward for us.

My wife loves going to my church and is always taken back by how we fellowship after church and the family atmosphere.

We are hoping to retire in several years and move to a rural setting. Perhaps in the small town, we will have an easier time making friends at the small Catholic parish.

Possibly…the Parish my wife and kids are members at has about 500 members, if I had to throw a number, maybe 150 attend regularly, and I notice the same thing there as you describe in your 7000 member parish.

To be fair, they changed their RE program a couple years ago and lost a lot of families.

As far as why non-Catholics don’t convert: We were/are born and raised in other denominations and with that upbringing believe that we have a viable road to heaven, just like Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, etc… The Catholic church was another church down the road doing their best to get to heaven like everyone else, and really wasn’t a blip on my daily radar. To say it’s ego is preposterous.

If you want to evangelize, I wouldn’t start with this though:

are we to just tell them that their belief is wrong and to be saved they have to convert?

as I believe (or so I’m told) this isn’t the teaching of the church.

 

[goout]

WingsOfEagles:

This is, of course, highly varied based on which non-Catholic denomination of Christianity we are talking.

Of course. Just trying to avoid making a blanket statement!

Those would be folks like me, who don’t like to be identified by the term “Protestant” because we’re not protesting anything. We like the Catholic Church, but for various reasons aren’t convinced of the necessity of swimming the Tiber.

If you consider being Catholic merely a necessity, perhaps you are looking at things through an incomplete context.
Consider being Catholic because God is drawing you to full communion with Him and others. The Church is a community, not merely a necessity for our salvation. We can find that salvation with others in love, not as isolated individuals merely satisfying our needs.
Well, we have needs for sure, but those needs should desire us to full communion.

Swim the Tiber because God is calling you to love him completely, and others want and need you to be a full part of that communion.

 

[HopkinsReb]

If you consider being Catholic a necessity, perhaps you are looking at things through an incomplete context.
Consider being Catholic because God is drawing you to full communion with Him and others . The Church is a community, not merely a necessity for our salvation. We can find that salvation with others in love, not as isolated individuals merely satisfying our needs.
Well, we have needs for sure, but those needs should desire us to full communion.

Swim the Tiber because God is calling you to love him completely, and others want and need you to be a full part of that communion.

If one is convinced that being Catholic is the only way to get full communion with God, then one is convinced that being Catholic is necessary. Kind of saying the same thing here.

 

[goout]

goout:

If you consider being Catholic a necessity, perhaps you are looking at things through an incomplete context.
Consider being Catholic because God is drawing you to full communion with Him and others . The Church is a community, not merely a necessity for our salvation. We can find that salvation with others in love, not as isolated individuals merely satisfying our needs.
Well, we have needs for sure, but those needs should desire us to full communion.

Swim the Tiber because God is calling you to love him completely, and others want and need you to be a full part of that communion.

If one is convinced that being Catholic is the only way to get full communion with God, then one is convinced that being Catholic is necessary. Kind of saying the same thing here.

well sort of.
It is the distinction between desire and sense of obligation. Those can work hand in hand but the love of God and others is the end point and hopefully the motivation for all we do.

 

[HopkinsReb]

well sort of.
It is the distinction between desire and sense of obligation. Those can work hand in hand but the love of God and others is the end point and hopefully the motivation for all we do.

Fair enough. I suppose the way I think about it is trying to do my duty to those whom I love.

 

[goout]

Ya what I strive for as well.