Why don't non-Catholic Christians make the Sign of the Cross? Or, do they?

[jazzy_987]

I’ve never seen it used in that instance either.

That’s how my little sister was taught in school… but I wasn’t taught that
I’ve only seen it done at school when people heard “Father… Son… Holy Spirit” (bad PA system) and thought that the prayer was over so they made the sign of the cross, and then realized it was the Glory Be.

 

[Loboto-Me]

I also do the Glory Be like Cathh(name removed by moderator) does. It kind of negates trying to not draw attention to myself if I’m reciting a rosary in the car while I wait for my daughter to get out of the dentists

 

[mariyka]

In the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, the Trisagion prayer includes the Glory Be, and the sign of the cross is made 5 times:

*+ Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us (repeat 3 times).
+Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.
Amen. +Holy Immortal, have mercy on us. *

Maybe there’s an Eastern connection?

 

[Jimmy_B]

In the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, the Trisagion prayer includes the Glory Be, and the sign of the cross is made 5 times:

+ Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us (repeat 3 times).
+Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.
*Amen. +Holy Immortal, have mercy on us. *

Maybe there’s an Eastern connection?

+ Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us (repeat 3 times).
+Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.
*Amen. +Holy Immortal, have mercy on us. *

+ Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us (repeat 3 times).
+Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.
*Amen. +Holy Immortal, have mercy on us. *

+ Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us (repeat 3 times).
+Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.
*Amen. +Holy Immortal, have mercy on us. *

 

[Jimmy_B]

*In nomine Patris *
et Filii
et Spiritus Sancti
Amen


​

 

[Petergee]

some evangelicals regard the Sign to be of pagan origin (a symbol of the pagan gods Tammuz/Mithras/Attis) and object to its use on those grounds.

I guess they would be the people who object to Xmas trees, Easter eggs, etc for similar reasons. You can find “pagan origins” for anything if you look hard enough. The point is that whatever the origin of some similar devotion/prayer done by pagans who were consciosuly or unconcsiously, honestly trying to reach out and look for the Divine Who they knew is there, we Christians have the fullness of the faith which is God reaching out to Man, and have thoroghly Christianised and Divinised such practices/devotions.

Btw I’ve never heard of that theory of origin of the SotC and never heard of the other 2 gods before, but I’m pretty sure that the cult of Mithras only bgecame popular AFTER the Church began.

I do not think most Christians are aware that prior to the coming of Christ, Jews also used the Hebrew letter tav (the ancient form of which was formed like the letter ‘X’ or a ‘+’)–as a sign that they were “marked,” or belonged, to the Lord. (Kind of like the idea of putting an “x” as your signature on a legal document.) Archeologists have found ancient Jewish ossuaries (burial coffins) with the mark of the tav on them–and were surprised when they discovered that these people were not believers in Jesus.

It was this practice of marking with a tav which is being referred to in Ezekiel 9:4, in which God commanded the man clothed with linen to “set a mark” upon the foreheads of the faithful Jews who grieved over the sins of their nation. The mark spared these Jews from the judgment of death. The same idea is conveyed with the idea of Jesus writing the name of God on the overcomers of Rev. 3:12. Satan also sets his mark on those who belong to him (Rev. 13:17).

It is easy to understand how Christianity took the idea behind the cross-shaped tav mark and adopted it as a Christian symbol. I am not familiar how the symbol evolved from a mark on the forehead (which is mentioned by Church Father Tertullian as a common Christian practice) to the forehead/chest/shoulder form.

Thanks I didn’t know that.

 

[kristine105]

because they don’t believe it, bible christrians or fundamentlists always reason…“because it’s not written in the bible…”

 

[rwillenborg]

Back in Chicagoland I can recall once seeing a whole family (probably five people) saying a blessing and crossing themselves in a restaurant, and I was impressed! I wish that the practice was so commonplace that I would not be able to recall that one incident or those very people specifically, but the sad fact is it is not a common sight and when someone does this kind of thing it strikes one as exceptional.

We are only a family of four, but the two kids are twin 2 1/2 year olds. So, I can tell you that when we go out to eat (it’s only happened about three times since they were born) there is a BIG show of the sign of the cross, not for the sake of the other patrons, but because teaching a 2 1/2 year old requires quite a bit of ‘Okay, in the name of the Father…no, on the forehead. Not your sister’s forehead. YOUR forehead. DON’T use your drinking water! Put that down! Okay, let’s start again.’
This very brief prayer becomes SOOOO long!! LOL!

 

[rwillenborg]

A few words on why the sign of the cross is my absolute favorite prayer.

I like that you are praying with your WHOLE self. You are praying with your mind, your mouth, and your body. That’s a very Catholic thing to do, I realize. Catholics see a strong link between what your body is doing and what your mouth is saying. That’s why the Catholic Mass has so much sitting, kneeling, standing, genuflecting, bowing, and all of that. So, it should be no surprise that Catholics are so strongly associated with the sign of the cross - a very physical prayer.

EVERY aspect of it says something. I touch my forehead with two fingers, leaving three pointed inwards. The two call to mind the dual nature of Christ (man and God) while the three pointing towards myself call to mind the trinitarian nature of God (I know there are other ways to cross oneself, and the sybolism of those ways is just as rich). And, yes, it calls to mind that God should always be on my mind, heart, and self. Also, it FEELS like I’m putting on a shield, a shield of God’s love and grace. Furthermore, it links me with Christians of the past, who crossed themselves in the coliseum before their death (although the ‘style’ of their cross was different). And the words themselves…it’s like I’m claiming myself for God. THIS HEAD is for the Father. THIS HEART is for the Son. THIS PERSON is for the Holy Spirit. It’s kind of like that.

The sign of the cross is prolly what I do most often. It only takes a moment and there are SO many times that it is appropriate. At the opening and closing of a prayer, when I pass an ambulance, fire truck, hospital, cemetary, or a Catholic Church.



Maybe it’s because I’m SO bad at memorizing any prayer, and even WORSE at, what’s that called, ‘spontaneous prayer’ or whatever that’s called, the sign of the cross really comes through in a pinch!

 

[Jimmy_B]

…I do know that some evangelicals regard the Sign to be of pagan origin (a symbol of the pagan gods Tammuz/Mithras/Attis) and object to its use on those grounds. While it is true that the symbol was used by pagans, I do not think most Christians are aware that prior to the coming of Christ, Jews also used the Hebrew letter tav (the ancient form of which was formed like the letter ‘X’ or a ‘+’)–as a sign that they were “marked,” or belonged, to the Lord. (Kind of like the idea of putting an “x” as your signature on a legal document.) Archeologists have found ancient Jewish ossuaries (burial coffins) with the mark of the tav on them–and were surprised when they discovered that these people were not believers in Jesus…

I understand what you are saying here. Early Catholic priests, probably Jesuit missionaries, I say this, only because I like Jesuit priests and view them like the "Special Forces” of the Catholic Church…at any rate… Early Catholic priests showed the Pagan convert’s the Cross and said, "This cross now symbolizes the
crucified Christ“…Nothing wrong with that…

 

[Metamorphoo]

I guess they would be the people who object to Xmas trees, Easter eggs, etc for similar reasons. ,

I think that would be an accurate assessment.

Btw I’ve never heard of that theory of origin of the SotC and never heard of the other 2 gods before, but I’m pretty sure that the cult of Mithras only bgecame popular AFTER the Church began.

Tammuz was the Sumerian god of fertility and new life. Attis was a Greek god.

Thanks I didn’t know that.

You’re welcome … I thought it was pretty fascinating stuff as well.

 

[bobhickman]

perhaps people are taught something and cling to it, untill, ministryofdreams.0catch.com

 

[Jimmy_B]

perhaps people are taught something and cling to it, untill, [Wow"]http://www.ministryofdreams.0catch.com]("http://www.ministryofdreams.0catch.com[/quote)

Wow, I went to your link… What a strange site… And… I thought I was the typo-King…

 

[Bluegoat]

I think that would be an accurate assessment.

Tammuz was the Sumerian god of fertility and new life. Attis was a Greek god.

You’re welcome … I thought it was pretty fascinating stuff as well.

There is a lot of bunk written about pagan religion and how Christianity, or Catholicism (depending on the audience) is just warmed over Mithraism and so forth.

Of course there were many real pagan religions, but many of the claims found on internet sites are bogus.

But some types of Protestants do actually believe them, and it does influence their views on various practices.

 

[patrick457]

I understand what you are saying here. Early Catholic priests, probably Jesuit missionaries, I say this, only because I like Jesuit priests and view them like the "Special Forces” of the Catholic Church…at any rate… Early Catholic priests showed the Pagan convert’s the Cross and said, "This cross now symbolizes the
crucified Christ“…Nothing wrong with that…

Indeed. BTW, the Society of Jesus only existed after St. Ignatius of Loyola founded it in 1534, so we can be pretty sure that early Christian priests are not Jesuits - or belong to any religious order (the concept postdates them by centuries), for that matter.

The interesting thing is however, Christianity is itself an ‘impossible religion’ because it preaches for its Lord a man, a criminal in the eyes of the law of the land, who was put to death by the most wretched of deaths: crucifixion, an offensive, ‘obscene’ “status degradation ritual” designed to humiliate its victim in every way and make them suffer in the most horrid way imaginable. Pagan authors were too revolted by the subject that the Gospels turn out to be our most be our most detailed description of a crucifixion from ancient times - and the Gospels do not dwell on the details either!

The message of the cross was an abhorrence, a vulgarity in its social context. Discussing the cross was the worst sort of social faux pas; it was akin, in only the thinnest sense, to discussing sewage reclamation techniques over a fine meal - but even worse when associated with an alleged god come to earth. If Jesus had truly been a god, then by Roman thinking, the Crucifixion should never have happened (this is probably the roots of the Docetist heresy: some had a hard time comprehending that the Son of God could truly die this very horrible, shameful death and instead propose that the Jesus hanging on the cross was either a mirage or someone else). This is why St. Paul says that Christ crucified is “to the Greeks foolishness, and to the Jews a stumbling-block”.

No words can express how the ancients thought of the repulsiveness of the cross. Not surprising then why many thought that Christians are a strange lot, referring to the disgracefulness of the death of Jesus with great emphasis and pleasure. It is surprising how this small movement from the backwaters of the Empire did not die out within decades as a mere footnote in the pages of history but instead grew and covered the face of the earth.

 

[patrick457]

BTW, this phobia may have its roots in the days of the Reformation, when the Sign of the Cross was viewed as a superstitious, ‘Catholic’ thing by some Protestants and thus was something evil, something that needed to be chucked out. No doubt the practice of some had given them cause for this accusation: in fact, even in the 6th century, St. Caesarius of Arles had been already criticizing people who make the Sign on their way to commit a sin, be it robbery or adultery.

Ironically enough, the man who is often considered to be the Father of the Reformation himself recommended the practice:

Wie ein Haus-Vater sein Gesinde lehren soll lehren Morgens und Abends sich segnen.

Der Morgensegen.
Des Morgens, so du aus dem Bette fährest, sollt du dich segnen mit dem heiligen Kreuz und sagen: ‚Das walt Gott Vater, Sohn, und Heiliger Geist. Amen.‘ Darauf knieend oder stehend, den Glauben und Vater Unser, willst du, so magst du dieses Gebetlein darzu sprechen:

Ich danke dir, mein himmlischer Vater, durch Jesum Christum, deinen lieben Sohn, daß du mich diese Nacht für allem Schaden und Fahr behütet hast: und bitte dich, du wollest mich diesen Tag auch behüten vor Sünden und allem Uebel, daß dir all mein Thun und Leben gefalle: denn ich befehle mich, mein Leib und Seele, und alles in deine Hände, dein heiliger Engel sei mit mir, daß der böse Feind keine Macht an mir finde, Amen.

Und alsdann mit Freuden an dein Werk gegangen, und etwa ein Lied gesungen, als, die zehen Gebot, oder was deine Andacht giebt.

Der Abendsegen.
Des Abends, wenn du zu Bette gehest, sollt du dich segnen mit dem heiligen Kreuze, und sagen: ‚Das walt Gott Vater, Sohn, und Heiliger Geist. Amen.‘ Darauf knieend oder stehend den Glauben und Vater Unser: willt du, so magst du dies Gebetlein darzu sprechen:

Ich danke dir, mein himmlischer Vater, durch Jesum Christum, deinen lieben Sohn, daß du mich diesen Tag gnädiglich behütet hast: Und bitte dich, du wollest mir vergeben alle meine Sünde, wo ich Unrecht gethan habe, und mich diese Nacht gnädiglich behüten, denn ich befehle mich, mein Leib und Seele, und alles in deine Hände, dein heiliger Engel sei mit mir, daß der böse Feind keine Macht an mir finde, Amen.

Und alsdann flugs und fröhlich geschlafen.

---

How the head of the family should teach his household to pray morning and evening.

Morning Prayer.
In the morning, as soon as you get out of bed, you shall bless yourself with the holy cross and say, “God the Father, Son, Holy Spirit watch over me. Amen.” Then, kneeling or standing, repeat the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer. If you choose, you may, in addition, say this little prayer:

I thank you, my Heavenly Father, through Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, that you have kept me this night from all harm and danger; and I pray you to keep me this day also from sin and all evil, that all my doings and life may please you. For into you hands I commend myself, my body and soul, and all things. Let your holy angel be with me, that the Wicked Foe may have no power over me. Amen.

Then go to your work with joy, singing a hymn, as the Ten Commandments, or what your devotion may suggest.

Evening Prayer.
In the evening, when you go to bed, you shall bless yourself with the holy cross and say, “God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit watch over me. Amen.” Then, kneeling or standing, repeat the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer. If you choose, you may, in addition, say this little prayer:

I thank you, my Heavenly Father, through Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, that you had graciously kept me this day, and I pray you to forgive me all my sins, where I have done wrong, and graciously keep me this night. For into your hands I commend myself, my body and soul, and all things. Let your holy angel be with me, that the Wicked Foe may have no power over me. Amen.

Then go to sleep promptly and cheerfully.

• Martin Luther, The Small Catechism

 

[gcnuss]

Why don’t non-Catholic Christians make the Sign of the Cross? Or, do they?

I do, my wife does, and quite a few other Lutherans whom I know do. That said, there are far more who don’t. However, the use of the Sign of the Cross is gaining ground.

 

[JonNC]

I do, my wife does, and quite a few other Lutherans whom I know do. That said, there are far more who don’t. However, the use of the Sign of the Cross is gaining ground.

Maybe more Lutherans are reading the Small Catechism again, as quoted above.

Jon

 

[gcnuss]

Maybe more Lutherans are reading the Small Catechism again, as quoted above.

Perhaps they are following the example of our Catholic brother who reads and quotes Luther so well.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Perhaps they are following the example of our Catholic brother who reads and quotes Luther so well.

Isn’t that something, Luther encouraged making the Sign of the Cross, after his break from the Catholc Church… didn’t know that? So, when did it stop, or when was it discouraged in these later denominations and why? Anybody know?