Why don't people listen to those who live the life?

[wina]

Bro JR,

I have learned so much about vocation by your posts. So please don’t get frustrated, because God may use you as His instruments to explain about vocation more.

God bless
Wina

 

[krissylou]

Ha. I think Kshaft was teasing a little – saying “I agree with everything you said” about consecrated religious life and then going straight to “all I care about is being a parish priest” which would indicate Entirely Not Getting It One Bit re: what you had just said about religious life.

But aren’t you good – you went into all this detail anyway. And if my guess that Kshaft was teasing is correct, the response will undoubtedly be a great resource for someone else (probably many other people).

I think that a lot of the frustration is that all these different categories are way more varied and way more complicated than we laypeople have any clue about.

For me, I am investigating various secular orders/lay orders/tertiaries/associates/something – some way to potentially unite myself with a charism and a community without taking vows.

I had absolutely no idea there were so many different variations, and the differences were so significant. So, as you have said many many many times, a Secular Franciscan is just as much of a Franciscan as an OFM friar or a Poor Clare, just living the charism under a different rule and in a different setting. (My grandparents were secular Franciscans and I had no clue it was such a huge deal.) And then there are “associates” who do not have any formal canonical status. And there are various points in between.

I eventually gave up trying to understand the whole spectrum and all the different distinctions. I’m a reasonably smart person but my brain was too small.

So what I ended up doing is looking at different communities, and try to figure out what life in their lay affiliate community (yes yes secular Franciscans are not “affiliates” in any sense but their own thing. Got that. Crystal clear. Thank you. Still looking for some overarching term that would describe secular orders, lay orders, oblates, etc etc etc and I don’t know what that term is …) and how does THAT sound to me. To try to map out all the different possibilites and place where this community lands on that map, that proved to be just beyond me.

If you’re feel that Christ is calling you to be a parish priest, pure and simple, obviously he’s not calling you to join a religious community, make vows and follow a stable way of life, not to say that diocesan priests are not stable people. A stable life is the term that the Church uses to described religious life vs secular life. It’s stable, because it is an ordered life or governed by a rule.

 

[KShaft]

Thanks Br JR for that response. That was quite awesome. I have been hanging out with the Benedictans in Cleveland, and while being great guys, I didnt think it was for me even though the Vocation director said he that while a member of his parish died I showed up in the same hour(he asked him to pray for vocations in his suffering). That kind of put a lot of pressure on me. I cant really put my finger on it, but although nothing like Parris Island, (USMC boot camp) I got a similar feeling when I did the come and see. I stayed there for 7 months as I kept getting injured. The basic cycle is 3 months. Forever in a place like that.

I feel I have some sort of vocation, but to be honest Im kind of clueless. The Lord led me back into the church, and I think now I am not meant to have a secular career (civilian secular, not Catholic ‘secular’) but do something with the church but then again it could be a calling just to pray more and be closer to the almighty Father,Son and Holy Spirit.

Thank you Br JR for the great reply!

 

[KShaft]

Ha. I think Kshaft was teasing a little – saying “I agree with everything you said” about consecrated religious life and then going straight to “all I care about is being a parish priest” which would indicate Entirely Not Getting It One Bit re: what you had just said about religious life.

But aren’t you good – you went into all this detail anyway. And if my guess that Kshaft was teasing is correct, the response will undoubtedly be a great resource for someone else (probably many other people).

I think that a lot of the frustration is that all these different categories are way more varied and way more complicated than we laypeople have any clue about.

For me, I am investigating various secular orders/lay orders/tertiaries/associates/something – some way to potentially unite myself with a charism and a community without taking vows.

I had absolutely no idea there were so many different variations, and the differences were so significant. So, as you have said many many many times, a Secular Franciscan is just as much of a Franciscan as an OFM friar or a Poor Clare, just living the charism under a different rule and in a different setting. (My grandparents were secular Franciscans and I had no clue it was such a huge deal.) And then there are “associates” who do not have any formal canonical status. And there are various points in between.

I eventually gave up trying to understand the whole spectrum and all the different distinctions. I’m a reasonably smart person but my brain was too small.

So what I ended up doing is looking at different communities, and try to figure out what life in their lay affiliate community (yes yes secular Franciscans are not “affiliates” in any sense but their own thing. Got that. Crystal clear. Thank you. Still looking for some overarching term that would describe secular orders, lay orders, oblates, etc etc etc and I don’t know what that term is …) and how does THAT sound to me. To try to map out all the different possibilites and place where this community lands on that map, that proved to be just beyond me.

You are correct Krissy Lou. I was kidding, but the response was so good it didnt matter.

 

[goforgoal]

You know, during the several years that I have been on CAF, I have known several priests, brothers, sisters and one nun who tried to post on these vocation threads. We all know each other. I know two who know another three and those know about three more. It’s like a little network. The one thing that we often share via PMs, when we can speak to each other by first names, is the fact that people post on the vocation forums, but they don’t seem to pay attention to what we’re saying. This is very frustrating, to the point that several of these men and women who really want to promote vocations to their diocese, their orders or the priesthood and religious life in general, often feel that they cannot do so on this forum.

The secular lay people who come onto this forum don’t give the people who are living the life a hearing. We try to point out what religious life is and how it is lived; no one wants to discuss that.

To discuss vocations one must understand certain things. We often try to point them out and explain them, but people don’t want to discuss them. I’ll give a few examples of topics that get swept under the carpet around here.

One major one that a man thinking about priesthood should know about is the difference between the priesthood and the consecrated life. They are not the same and will never be the same. People just ignore us and move on to their idea of what priesthood is.

The fact that males have options: diaconate, priesthood, and brotherhood. Everyone wants to talk about priesthood. Two of the three options are dismissed.

You cannot appreciate celibacy unless you appreciate the sacredness of marriage. People seem to want to either push celibacy without explaining it in the light of marriage or they want to do away with it. They don’t discuss the relationship between the two.

Then there are the different forms of religious life: religious orders, secular orders, secular institutes, societies of apostolic life, religious congregations all offering beautiful ways to holiness. We mention these, people sail right past them back to priesthood, without placing priests in proper context.

I don’t know how many times we have explained that a diocesan priest is a secular man, not a consecrated man. People come back and start attributing to him qualities that are not appropriate for secular man, but belong to the consecrated man, despite the fact that those of us who live the life are saying, “We’re not the same and we don’t want to be the same.” It’s as if posters want to dictate what God decides regarding vocations.

There are so many options for women. A woman can be a sister, a nun, a secular religious, a consecrated virgin or a wife and mother. These never get a hearing. At least one of these options can be combined with marriage and motherhood.

The distinct charisms in the Church get ignored, even when they are presented: hermit, monastic, mendicant, clerk regular for men. Hermit, monastic and sisterhood and consecrated virgin for women. They get ignored too.

There are many reasons for the decline in parish priests that have nothing to do with celibacy. A lot has to do with Vatican II’s demand that those priests who belong to religious orders go back to being religious and drop out of parishes and that those religious orders that were not founded as orders for priests cut back on the surplus of priests or the fact that Vatican II demanded that religious orders of priests, brothers and sisters that were founded to do other work that is not parish, leave the parishes. The impression that one gets is that the only concern here is the parish, because that’s where I am. The other needs of the Church or the gifts that these communities bring to the Church are not important to me. Then there is the fact that people seem not to want to understand what a secular priest is supposed to do and is not expected to do by the Church herself.

Posters are never going to get straight answers about the different vocations if this community is not open to learning about them from those who are there. Even marriage is not well discussed here.

Why can’t these threads welcome and allow the deacons, priests, and religious to share what the call is about and ask questions for understanding, instead of arguing what it should be according to the point of view of the poster? The few of us who come to this forum want to help those who are discerning. Can the secular lay poster let us do that, without the arguing or the redirecting? The information is pretty straightforward, if people want to hear it.

Marriage, Holy Orders and consecrated life are beautiful and everyone can benefit, if we learn to listen, ask the right questions and avoid trying to dictate what these ways of life should be.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

God bless you for this Brother JR.

I may not respond to all of your posts/threads but I have learnt a lot from them thank you and like Wina stated maybe God is using you as an instrument to explain vocations more.

I do apologize if I was ever ignorant.

 

[JReducation]

God bless you for this Brother JR.

I may not respond to all of your posts/threads but I have learnt a lot from them thank you and like Wina stated maybe God is using you as an instrument to explain vocations more.

I do apologize if I was ever ignorant.

There is no need to apologize. All I want to do is to help those who are asking questions either about religious life, the priesthood, the diaconate or the married life to get the right information. I realize that everyone who responds means well, but sometimes we tell people things are not incorrect and that only confuses them.

I think one reason that twe give out the wrong information is because we don’t know it ourselves. and it has never been taught to us. I have many very good friends who are diocesan priests and diocesan deacons. You’d be surprised at how little most diocesan priests and deacons know about the consecrated life. It’s not part of their training. This wuld be the kind of thing that you study in Canon Law of if you take advanced courses in Church history, which are not requiremens in the seminary. The Canon Law courses taught in the seminary cover the basics on the sacraments and the parts of the law that pertain to parish life. The other parts of the law are not covered. There is no time. You have a four-year program to get these guys ready to go out there and serve as diocesan deacons or priests. Church history courses are overview courses. The history of the Church is very complex. So we don’t expect the average diocesan parish priest to know the history of the consecrated life and how it is set up. Many have a vague understanding of its purpose in the Church. It’s impossible for the lay person in the pew to know, if the deacons and priests in the parish do not know.

The other reason that people often give the wrong answer has to do with wishful thinking. That one always puts a smile on my face. People look at old pictures, watch old movies, read the lives of the saints and they are inspired. The problem is that these things do not give a comprehensive protrayal of the priesthood or the religious life. Everything looks wonderful, becaus the stories all have happy endings. It’s the in-between stuff that does not make it into print or moviews, because it’s boring. But the boring stuff is the important stuff.

I was just on a thread where someone was encouraging women who want to see the return of the cornette to found a new religious order. The poster went as far as posting SAVE THE CORNETTE in very large red letters. I asked myself, “has this person ever worn one of those? Does he realize that if they had had the choice between a cornette and a wash and wear garment they would have chosen the latter? Does he realize that you do not found a new religious community just to bring back an old habit? Does this person undersand the mysticism of St. Vincent de Paul, St. Louie de Marillac and St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, the founders of theSisterrs of Charity? If he did, that’s the spirit that he should be encouraging, not a big hat that requires unnecessary time to maintain, when a simple veil will do the trick.”

The way that the advise was worded made it sound as if all you have to do is wish it and you can make it happen. Life does not work that way. We can’t just click our heals and make things happen. Sometimes, when we correct a poster like this and say, "Wait a minute. St. Vincent never intended for the cornette to become a permanet thing or St. Louise de Marillac and St. Elizabeth Ann Seton never wore cornettes. Those were added later by the sisters and therefore can be doen away with by the same people who created them. When you say things like this or you tell posters, that the Daughters of Charity are a society, not a religious congregation or a religious order; therefore, you can’t just start a branch to an order that does not exist. Say something like this and you’re dismissed or worse, someone argues with you.

When it comes to vocations to the priesthood and to the religious life I would also like to help the person in the pew to be more generous. There is a tendency to push for more priests and more sisters, because that’s what “I need in my life and in my parish.” This is true. We do need more priests and sisters in the parish. But we have to think in big pictures. The Church needs priests, deacons, brothers, sisters and cloistered nuns too. She needs monks, friars and clerks regular. She needs consecrated virgins and hermits too. When someone approaches me to ask about vocation, I try to get a sense of the type of person with which I’m dealing and then point them in the right direction. I ave pointed mor men away from my communit than I have admitted. They come wanting to be Franciscans, because they like the Franciscans. But when I ask them what they know about the Franciscan family, they know nothing. They are in love with an image. I tellt hem to go read the life of St. Francis and his works, maybe the works of the great Franciscans too. If you’re still in love with the ideal, after reading al of this, then we can talk.

That’s my idea of starting this post.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[HAnne]

First off, I simply have to stop looking at one more post at 12:30 AM.

Brother JR,

After reading your comments and immense insight on the “infamous” coronet thread I will admit I saw you started this one and hopped over for another dose of your wisdom and teaching. As a “about to start RCIA student” I am infinitely thirsting for knowledge and your words struck very true into the core of my heart.

I cannot thank you, the other brothers, sisters, and religious who have commented enough for your great thoughts and comments. While I am admittedly new to this forum, your willingness to explain it so thoroughly so that laypeople can understand is to be commended.

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart for taking the time and energy you have put into this online community.

And on that note, I have been reading your posts for nearly 5 hours and must now go to sleep before I have to wake up with my 7 year old son.

 

[ThomasEugene]

After reading the thread about cornets, I went to this thread to agree with the title “why don’t people listen to those who live the life?” Br. JReducation, how I admire you! You are so intelligent and very knowledgeable on almost all topics - Catholic doctrines, pro-life arguments and religious life. I am sure the Brothers of Life would become “Little Jays”

I used to believe that it’s enough to read about religious life but when I experienced a little of religious life during a discernment retreat, I somehow understood. It’s different from what I’ve read… (or maybe I’m just adding my emotions that’s why I almost fell into illusion.) So I stay attuned to those who have the experience.

Thank you Brother Jay!

 

[wina]

God bless you for this Brother JR.

I may not respond to all of your posts/threads but I have learnt a lot from them thank you and like Wina stated maybe God is using you as an instrument to explain vocations more.

I do apologize if I was ever ignorant.

Yes, it’s true and I need prayer that with God’s grace I can be faithful to follow His Holy will.
This 20th November, I will try to live in to Discalded Carmel Monastery for 3 months orientation. Very excited and a little bit afraid too. But honestly I can be like this one of the reason because of CAF.

 

[JReducation]

The priesthood, the religious life and marriage all offer great opportunities to achieve holiness. I can’t think of a great sacrifice than putting up with the screaming child who has an earache and the frustration that a mother or father feel at not being able to stop the suffering of the child. It’s wonderful to talk about the intimacy of marriage, the beauty of the sexual act. But the rubber meets the road when that little boy screams bloody murder because he has an ear-ache and mom and dad suffering the helplessness together, without blaming each other, without making unreasonable demands on each other, working together to find a solution, taking turns with the their little boy so that the other can rest, crying together because they are helpless, wondering what to do next, what doctor to call or how to help Junior. That’s intimacy at its best. That’s Christ and his Church meeting at Calvary. That’s a moment when husband and wife move one-step closer to being saints, because they don’t blame God or each other. Together, they are present to their child and supporting each other. They do not think about why they do it. It comes naturally to them, because they’re in love, even when they’re miserable.

The same is true for the priesthood. It’s not about making the laity happy, hearing 500 confessions a week, celebrating a daily mass, baptizing 3,000 people a year or burying 5,000. There is much more to it than that. It’s about being Christ the high priest and loving those whom the high priest loves. A priest does not become a saint because the number of times he celebrates the sacraments or the number of lay people whom he serves. What made men like John Vianney holy was not that he was a priest. It was how he used his ministry. I learned a great deal about the priesthood by observing three people in Church history: St. Benedict, St. Francis of Assisi and Bl. Theresa of Calcutta.

They loved priests as much as they loved everyone else. They did not have a preferential love for priests. This is rather interesting. It comes out very clearly in the organization of their religious communities. The Benedictines, Franciscans and Missionaries of Charity have priests. But all of them have very tight policies about the place of the priest. The priest is to be Christ the High Priest when he goes out to serve the people of God or when he celebrates the sacraments for his community. However, all of them refused to give priests any special standing in their communities. They were forbidden any special recognition, any special privileges because they were priests, any special honors, or a special habit. They were never allowed to have rights that the other religious did not have, nor did they have duties that the other religious did not have. Assignments and apostolates were given according to need, talent and personality, not because they were priests. When a man walked in the door and asked to join them, the first question was not whether he wanted to be a priest. The first question was whether he wanted to obey.

You see, Benedict, Francis and Teresa loved the priesthood. As far as the priest is concerned, he too must love the priesthood, end of story. However, they would never welcome a man who loved being a priest so much that he could not wash dishes, wipe a sick person’s butt, do laundry, run errands, drive a bus, or be unwilling to skip saying mass in order to pray with his brothers or visit a poor person living in a black hole. To them the priest was the man who confected the Eucharist and absolved sins. He was not the hero of the community. They had a very keen eye when they received an inquirer. He had to be a man who was called to share the priesthood of Jesus Christ, not called to serve them. We have a tendency to look for more priests, because we want men to serve us and meet our spiritual needs. That’s not what it’s about. It’s about entering into the priesthood of Jesus Christ and becoming holy as Christ is holy, doing the work of a priest. The priesthood is a mean to holiness for the individual and the people. If all he does is meet the needs of the people, but he cannot find Christ in his ministry, he is losing ground very quickly. We must encourage only those who will become saints by becoming priests. Not everyone will. Therefore, not everyone should be encouraged. The encouragement must always be to respond to the universal call to holiness first.

 

[JReducation]

Then there are the consecrated religious: brothers, sisters and nuns. The sisters are lucky. Everyone knows what a sister does. Many people had the benefit of being taught by teaching brothers too. However, that’s the doing part. That does not make a consecrated religious. Teaching, preaching, nursing, washing dishes, running a soup kitchen, serving at a pregnancy center, doing laundry and so forth are things that we do. We need not consecrate our lives to Christ to do any of that. Everyone can do that. The religious man or woman must be one who is called to be like John the Baptist or the Virgin Mary. What did John the Baptist say? “Behold the Lamb of God.” What did Mary say? “Do whatever he tells you?” Both point to Jesus. Mary is much more of a contemplative and John the Baptist is much more apostolic. Nevertheless, they both point men to Christ. When I go to a pregnancy center and spend several hours talking about abortion with a couple, I’m not counseling them. Every layperson who volunteers there can do that. Some are much better counselors than I am.

My experience has been that the men and women who come to the pregnancy centers where I go throughout the week always say to the secretary, “I want to make another appointment with the brother.” I love it, because they don’t even mention my name. I feel like John the Baptist. “I must decrease so that he can increase.” However, they notice the language that they use, “The Brother”. I’m their brother, just as Christ is the first-born among many brothers and sisters. When they ask for another appointment, they’re asking to meet with Jesus, not me. It is Christ, their brother whom they experience and whom they want to visit again. When they call me in the middle of the night, the first thing that I hear on the telephone at 3:00 am, after I say “Hello”, is “Brother!” If you have a brother who loves you, it’s OK to call him a 3:00 in the morning and ask, “Can I talk to you?”

They don’t want to talk to the priest, because they don’t need Christ the High Priest at that moment. I always remember the stories from the scriptures, but especially two stories. The Samaritan woman asks Jesus for “living water”. She’s asking for the grace that comes only through the sacraments administered by Christ the Priest. The blind man who came to Jesus and says, “Lord that I may see” is not asking for the grace of the sacraments, he’s asking for faith. Little does he realize that the fact that he has said, “Lord” is a sign of faith. Jews did not use that term lightly. That’s why Jesus says, “Your faith has healed you.” At that moment, it is not Christ the High Priest at work, but Christ the compassionate brother who reaches out, heals and consoles the hopeless.

As you can see, these are very different calls. Christ, because he is who he is, can be all things to all men. We can’t always be that. That’s why some men are called to be priests and others are called to be religious brothers. Then there are some men who are called to be both.

When we guide others who are discerning a vocation, we have to help them listen. What is Christ calling them to be, not to do. The doing is not important. The being is important. Christ is calling us to be saints. The question is how do I become a saint? Do I marry? Do I become a deacon or priest? Do I become a brother? Do I become both, a priest and a brother? The answer is . . . “Do whatever he tells you,” because that’s how you’ll become a saint.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[roveau]

Thank you Brother JR.

I know CAF can be a bit of a bear pit at times. I always think of it as a cross-section of Catholicism, even Christianity, as found in any community across the world. Here you get people of all ages and of different stages in their relationship with Christ all in the one place. I pray for you (and the Franciscan Brothers of Life) every day and your role in the sanity of CAF.

This thread is yet another example of the gift God has given to us in you sharing your knowledge and love with us.

Most of us do listen to you but we may not necessarily take part in the discussions for whatever reason. So don’t feel discouraged when it seems like most of us aren’t taking notice of what you and those who are living the life are saying because most of us do listen.

 

[Shoshana]

Thank you Brother JR.

I know CAF can be a bit of a bear pit at times. I always think of it as a cross-section of Catholicism, even Christianity, as found in any community across the world. Here you get people of all ages and of different stages in their relationship with Christ all in the one place. I pray for you (and the Franciscan Brothers of Life) every day and your role in the sanity of CAF.

This thread is yet another example of the gift God has given to us in you sharing your knowledge and love with us.

Most of us do listen to you but we may not necessarily take part in the discussions for whatever reason. So don’t feel discouraged when it seems like most of us aren’t taking notice of what you and those who are living the life are saying because most of us do listen.

I fully concur!

 

[JReducation]

I just came back from a statewide two-day Respect Life Conference. It was awesome. Absolutely, awesome! We have over 400 people representing every diocese in the state. There were bishops, monsignors, priests, deacons, seminarians, sisters, brothers and many lay people. The lectures were incredible. We heard talks on the Church’s Theology of the Body and her teaching on euthanasia, abortion, embryonic stem cell research, the death penalty, marriage and family, spirituality and ministry. The services to the unborn, newborn, elderly, sick, those on death role and in the area of embryonic stem cell research being done in this province is impressive. Nonetheless, more is needed. More lay people are needed to engage in this ministry.

There is everything from sidewalk counseling, lobbying, youth education, chastity days, healing ministry for men and women who have been involved in abortion and euthanasia. An army of lay Catholic volunteers is delivering food, clothing, shelter, medical care, hospice and other forms of material assistance. People are taking in unwanted children and unwanted elderly and sick persons. Lay people are being trained in the Gospel of Life. Religious education and sacraments are being provided for those who have struggled with life issues. Yet, there is much more that needs to be done and more hands needed.

I was given the honor of organizing the prayer and liturgical events for the conference. It was the first time that a religious brother, not a priest was asked to organize this part. We had an all night vigil with the Blessed Sacrament. Study sessions on the saints. We celebrated a solemn liturgy for over 350 people with over 50 clerics representing every diocese in the state. The presiding bishop allowed us to use the Franciscan customs. The opening mass was absolutely beautiful. Life Teen and two Catholic schools provided music for the different liturgical and prayer events. Some hymns were in English and all of the hymns for the adoration and benediction were in Latin. The kids did a wonderful job. We also had a two-hour devotional service to the pro-life saints, with prayer, meditation and a short biographical sketch on each of the saints and blessed. One of the local catholic high schools provided the music, with great reverence and beautiful hymns.

This brother has been invited to go on a three-diocese preaching tour. I’ll also be visiting every Knight of Columbus Council in three counties to help them organize their efforts to support pro-life ministry. I’ve been asked to preach three retreats for young men discerning the religious life. I’m supposed to be retired.

It was exciting to see the number of men and women who are entering the diocesan seminary and the religious life. Last year, 38-men made perpetual vows as religious brothers in one state alone. The communities with the largest number of professed brothers are Franciscans (of several branches), Missionary Brothers of Charity and the Missionaries of the Poor. The Missionaries of the Poor are impressive. They are getting 10 perpetually professed brothers to everyone ordained brother. Twenty-one men were ordained diocesan priests. Over 100 men were ordained deacons. One congregation of sisters had 50 women make vows in 2009 and 2010. It goes to prove that when you have a strong pro-life ministry, God calls men and women to the consecrated life.

All of this is good news. However, we still need many more brothers, sisters and committed laymen. We need more priests and deacons to do pro-life ministry in parishes. Several religious orders of men are refocusing their recruitment to get more brothers who will work in pro-life ministry: among the poor, the immigrant, those on death role and their families, hospice, side-walk ministry, pregnancy centers, housing for pregnant mothers, spiritual formation programs for expectant fathers and post-abortive fathers, chastity education, pro-life education and catechesis, the homeless, the dying and those that are not served by parishes. This will put a greater demand on the dioceses to produce diocesan clergy to replace the religious orders that are ordaining fewer men or placing more men in non-parochial ministries. However, if everyone chips in, we can turn this around, not over night, but one-step at a time.

I will be forming a group of laymen who will minister to men who are expectant fathers, post-abortive fathers or who have been abortionists. Beginning in November, I will be traveling to four counties visiting parishes and Knights of Columbus Councils.

The bishops were awesome. There was never a moment, during the two-day affair when there was not at least one bishop present, sometimes more than one. The humility of these bishops is inspiring. It was also beautiful to see the deacons given their rightful place among the clergy during the mass. The way that the altar was setup called for the Metropolitan to preside in the seat in front. The other bishops and priests were to sit on either side. The decision was made that the place of honor, next to the bishop, in the front role was to be for the deacons whose proper role is to serve the bishop. I was happy to see the deacons shine. All too often, the lay faithful do not know what to think of a deacon or what his place is. To see them preach, proclaim the Gospel, assist the bishop and wait on the table was awe-inspiring. To see the other bishops defer to the deacons was a real example of humility. At the same time, it was beautiful to see all the different vocations play their respective roles in ministry and worship: clerics, religious and lay faithful.

We need more men and women to respond to the Gospel of Life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[joandarc2008]

Wish I still could have been down there to have made the Conference but sometimes the Lord has other plans - glad to hear it went well.

 

[valient_Lucy]

bump.

 

[JReducation]

I had to chuckle to see that this thread got bumped. I thought no one was interested in it or that it had lost steam. I guess at least one person is interested.

I just had a very interesting conversation with a layperson who works down at the archdiocese with me. I should say, I work with her. She’s my boss. So please don’t ask me for names.

It was an interesting conversation, because she was expressing her, I don’t know what, about the fact that the religious who work in this department have been problematic. I asked what the problem was. I figured I’d ask, since I’m a religious.

She explained that it was always problematic, because you never knew when you could count on them. I listened politely. She continued to say that there were times when the administration asked religious to do something and they responded that they had to get permission.

At that point, another administrator, also a laywoman, joined the conversation. She too explained her “confusion” on this matter. They wondered why a religious would be assigned to work for them and yet have to ask for permission from a superior to perform their duties as asked by the administrator.

I tried to explain that herein was the problem. From the point of view of the layperson who runs a department, an institution, or a project, the people on the team work for you. From the point of view of the religious community, the religious do not work for you. They are there to carry out the mission of their religious institute. They must do so within the parameters of their institute, not the parameters of the diocese, the department, institution or the project. The religious life supersedes all the above. For the religious, the work is a means to an end. The end is always the salvation of the soul of the religious through the salvation of other souls. “A man can do no greater thing than to lay down his life for his brother.”

The benefit of the program (let’s call it that) is not the purpose of the religious. The religious exists sanctify the Church, not to get a job done. If the job gets done, praise God. More important is the sanctification of the Church through fidelity to the religious life.

I pointed out that the lay staff members should learn from the religious. Just as the religious asked for permission to do certain things that they were asked to do by the administration, hopefully, the married layperson would consult the spouse before proceeding with every requirement of the job, to ensure that the marriage and the spouse always hold the place of primacy in their lives.

I don’t know if they understood me or if I even convinced them. I simply got a funny look and the conversation came to an abrupt end. Any thoughts?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TiggerS]

It may be helpful if a religious is assigned to some duty in the diocese that their religious superior explain to them (the religious) exactly what duties are to be performed (their brief) and that permission is granted to complete them as some sort of priority set by thereligious superior and then explained to any layperson supervising or whatever that the religious has permission within “these boundaries” (i.e. certain explained boundaries) outside of which they must ask permission first. Something along those lines? Generally speaking I think that probably most laypeople when a religious is assigned as a helper do not understand religious life and that religious need to take that that lack of knowledge as a “for granted” and ensure that things are spelt out clearly to both supervising layperson and the religious involved at the very outset to avoid confusions and misunderstandings.

Boundaries may be (as example only) that the religious is home for Morning and Evening Prayer and say Night Prayer also - and as, say, Priority One or whatever…or any other boundary or type of boundary that may exist.

TS

 

[JReducation]

It may be helpful if a religious is assigned to some duty in the diocese that their religious superior explain to them (the religious) exactly what duties are to be performed (their brief) and that permission is granted to complete them as some sort of priority set by thereligious superior and then explained to any layperson supervising or whatever that the religious has permission within “these boundaries” (i.e. certain explained boundaries) outside of which they must ask permission first. Something along those lines? Generally speaking I think that probably most laypeople when a religious is assigned as a helper do not understand religious life and that religious need to take that that lack of knowledge as a “for granted” and ensure that things are spelt out clearly to both supervising layperson and the religious involved at the very outset to avoid confusions and misunderstandings.

Boundaries may be (as example only) that the religious is home for Morning and Evening Prayer and say Night Prayer also - and as, say, Priority One or whatever…or any other boundary or type of boundary that may exist.

TS

There is usually a job description. I have never worked in any ministry without a job description. However, you can’t anticipate every situation. In every setting, there are surprises. I remember that we were going to have a conference. It was an out of town conference. I told my lay supervizor that I had to ask for permission to go to the conference. She didn’t think much of it. When I came back and told her that my superior said that I could not go, she asked me, “Why not?” I responded, “I don’t know.”

She looked at me and said, “Didn’t you ask?” I said, “I’m not allowed to ask.” She was a little put off that I would not be going to a pastoral conference and had no idea why not.

On another occasion a group of sisters were asked to sing at a mass. The sister who leads the schola asked for permission to bring the schola to the mass. It was a big mass, several bishops and clergy from everywhere, as well as lay people. She came back and said, “Mother said that we cannot sing at the mass.” Again the question was, “Why not?” Again, the answer was, “I don’t know.”

I’ll never forget a trip where we went out of town. There was a large group of us. We were supposed to return on a Friday night. There was a snow storm and our flight was canceled. We told the lay supervizor that we had to call home to ask for permission to stay another night. The supervizor said, “You mean you have to call to let them know that you’re not coming in tonight?” The brother who was in charge said, “No, I have to ask for permission to stay another night.” The lay supervizor was perplexed. “It’s snowing. How are you going home?” The answer was, “God will make it happen, if the superior says that we have to go home tonight. But we have to ask.” The layperson was totally blown away.

When one of our brother-priests walked out of the confession after an hour, people were upset. They invoked the memory of Padre Pio, who was also a Franciscan. The brother explained that Padre Pio’s assignment was different from his own. Padre Pio’s superior knew where he was and even Padre Pio had defined hours to hear confession. He too left the confessional at the assigned time. People read these wonderful stories about Padre Pio and don’t know that Padre Pio was an ordained brother and he prayed, ate, played, worked with his brothers at specific times of the day. The story books give the impression that he never had a community life. It’s not true. In this case, it was the faithful at a parish who did not understand the demands of obedience. It’s one thing if a person is sick and needs to go to confession and it’s another if it’s a routine Saturday confession. You can always call and ask for emergency confession and no one will deny you. That would be cruel.

I relate these events to marriage. I can imagine the same people doing exactly the same thing to their spouses. They feel obliged to meet the demands of their work and they are not home on time for meals, family recreation, to go grocery shopping or to the kids school play. They generalize this behavior. They place work over marriage and family. Until recently, many religious placed work over community. With the renewal of religious life and the recovery of the origins, this is changing. Unfortunately, among lay people, this is not changing. Family life and marriage often have to take a back seat to other activities.

I am wondering if the married person may need to go back to the roots of marriage, just like religious have to go back to the roots of religious life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TiggerS]

Thank you …

TS