Why don't people sing?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JMJ_coder
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
People in my parish sing pretty enthusiastically. Of course, we mainly sing traditional hymns. Many of the hymns we sing are not in the hymnal, so they are inserted in the bulletin each week.

If we don’t sing a hymn to our Msgr’s satisfaction he will ask us to sing it again.

Personally, I can’t carry a tune in a bucket, so I do not sing loudly.
 
Now, just because they don’t sing doesn’t mean that they are not actively participating.:eek: There is also interior participation that is just as important. The hymns, especially the ancient ones, are supposed to be “far removed” from “real life” because we are in the presence of the Wholly Other. It is supposed to be “out of the ordinary.”

Furthermore, I do take exception to your criticism that most people don’t read music. Just because there are some of us who can’t read music, that doesn’t necessarily mean that we don’t have a good ear for a tune and can pick it up right away.👍
I am not criticizing people who don’t read music, I’m just stating it as a fact. When people don’t read music, and if they don’t sing by ear, it is very difficult for them to sing tunes that they have never heard, and anything classical is pretty much out of the question.

I have great respect for people who learn melodies by ear, as I am not very good at it. I’ve relied on reading music since I was a child, so I tend not to listen closely to Responsives (like the Psalm), and then I can’t remember the melody. But I am working on this. I think it’s very important for parents to work with their children, playing or singing simple melody lines and then asking the child to sing it back. Make it a game.

I do have a hard time with the idea of people not participating in singing of hymns during Mass. I know that there are times when people are caught up in the emotion of the moment and cannot sing and that’s OK. But the fact is, a hymn that is not sung is not a hymn–it’s an instrument solo or a silently-read poem. Also, many of us do not have loud voices, but if we all join together, we sound pretty good! But if most of us opt out to “silently participate,” then the few of us who are left sound puny, and we usually end up dropping out altogether.
 
People sing in my parish. I don’t sing all the songs, and none of them loudly, because I can’t sing a bit. My son starts to elbow me I get much above audible. Some songs there are only a few (20-25%) singing, mostly because they are too hard and/or too high, or not in English. Most songs are song by over half. A few songs you can’t really find anyone not singing. And pretty much everyong sings the responsorial, even if its hard or high.
 
(Of course, we have better things to sing, too. How can anything by Haugens and Hass stand up to the Cherubic Hymn?)
The Cherubic Hymn - what an absolutely marvelous hymn! How better to prepare for the Holy Mystery that we are privileged to participate in than by joining in a communal hymn of praise that actually exhorts us, point blank, to* “…now set aside all earthly cares!”* Certainly drives home the point that something very holy is about to happen and that now is the time to leave all things and concerns of an earthly nature far behind… no mincing of words there! 👍
 
When you say “too high,” what exactly are you saying?

I consider the range from A-B-middle C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D a do-able range for almost anyone if they sing in a head voice. The E above that D is a little more difficult, but if it doesn’t have to be sustained, I think it’s doable.

You just have to sing correctly and not try to blast it through the throat or out the nose.

What range do YOU consider “comfortable?” I hate to say it, people, but most good songs are going to have more notes than A-B-middle C-D-E-F! Be realistic!

As for the coloratura range–this is much much MUCH higher than the range that I posted above! Don’t exaggerate.

The other option, of course, is for a person who can’t sing melody to harmonize, either by ear or through reading a part. Is there a reason why you don’t do this on some of the songs that you consider “too high?”

I’ll be honest–I think many of the songs are in the perfect range, but most of the congregation just doesn’t know how to sing and wouldn’t be interested in learning even if a free class was offered.

Am I judging you too harshly? Would you be interested in a “singing for adults class” if one was offered? OUR city offers one, taught by a wonderful musician, and adults are learning how to sing correctly and how to read music.
 
I do have a hard time with the idea of people not participating in singing of hymns during Mass. I know that there are times when people are caught up in the emotion of the moment and cannot sing and that’s OK. But the fact is, a hymn that is not sung is not a hymn–it’s an instrument solo or a silently-read poem. Also, many of us do not have loud voices, but if we all join together, we sound pretty good! But if most of us opt out to “silently participate,” then the few of us who are left sound puny, and we usually end up dropping out altogether.
Cat, I am one of those who will not sing a hymn that I know is doctrinally incorrect and is liturgically questionable. There are a plethora of those out there (We Remember, Come to the Banquet and I, Myself, am the Bread of Life, just to name a few). I cannot in good conscience sing songs that have no regard for the liturgy.

Unfortunately, as other posters have indicated in this thread and in others, the problem lies with publishing houses lke OCP, who insist on shoving their tripe down our throats. We don’t need hundreds of new songs each year that contribute nothing to the Mass. We need a common collection of Sacred Music that is doctrinally sound, liturgically appropriate and universal, which is what Liturgicam Authenticam requires us to have in the first place. Until that time comes, you’ll have people like me who are not going to put up with the “feel good, like to teach the world to sing” garbage that is forced upon us by the likes of OCP.
 
The other option, of course, is for a person who can’t sing melody to harmonize, either by ear or through reading a part. Is there a reason why you don’t do this on some of the songs that you consider “too high?”
I do know how to harmonize, but not by ear. I can read music. I have never seen a Catholic hymnal with all 4 parts. On the other hand, I have never seen a Protestant hymnal that did not have all four parts. Give me a 4 part hymnal, and I’ll sing. I’m an alto, not a soprano.
 
When you say “too high,” what exactly are you saying?

I consider the range from A-B-middle C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D a do-able range for almost anyone if they sing in a head voice. The E above that D is a little more difficult, but if it doesn’t have to be sustained, I think it’s doable.

You just have to sing correctly and not try to blast it through the throat or out the nose.

What range do YOU consider “comfortable?” I hate to say it, people, but most good songs are going to have more notes than A-B-middle C-D-E-F! Be realistic!

As for the coloratura range–this is much much MUCH higher than the range that I posted above! Don’t exaggerate.

The other option, of course, is for a person who can’t sing melody to harmonize, either by ear or through reading a part. Is there a reason why you don’t do this on some of the songs that you consider “too high?”

I’ll be honest–I think many of the songs are in the perfect range, but most of the congregation just doesn’t know how to sing and wouldn’t be interested in learning even if a free class was offered.

Am I judging you too harshly? Would you be interested in a “singing for adults class” if one was offered? OUR city offers one, taught by a wonderful musician, and adults are learning how to sing correctly and how to read music.
You’ve mentioned “head” voice a couple times. Some people don’t even know there is such a thing. I used the term once when speaking to an alto in our choir, and she’d never heard it. I think the transition from chest to head is difficult for a lot of people and they don’t sing because they’re afraid they’re going to sound bad at that point. I know I’m a lot more confident if I can stay in one or the other for the whole song.

Kids don’t learn to read music in school, unless they’re learning to play an instument. Back in the olden days, everyone in my grade school and high school learned to read music. It was just a regular part of our curriculum. Neither of my sons learned to read music, or any kind of music theory, in public grade school or high school.

And just the words don’t do any good. At the 5:30 teen Mass I occassionally attend, you get a word sheet for songs you have NEVER HEARD BEFORE and they want you to sing. I’ve got a pretty good ear, but most of the time, I can’t do it.

Plus you’ve got your plain old apathy out there too. There are a lot of folks who figure getting up on a Sunday morning and showing up at church are the only requirements.
 
Will someone please hand these good people above a copy of Thomas Day’s “Why Catholics Can’t Sing”?

This book will explain it completely and clearly to you.
Yes! Yes! I totally agree. This book was an excellent read for me. I leant to someone a few years ago and I still haven’t gotten it back. 😦
 
Yes! Yes! I totally agree. This book was an excellent read for me. I leant to someone a few years ago and I still haven’t gotten it back. 😦
Has your friend started singing? 😃 Seriously, I think I will borrow that book from the library. It sounds good.
 
Cat, I am one of those who will not sing a hymn that I know is doctrinally incorrect and is liturgically questionable. There are a plethora of those out there (We Remember, Come to the Banquet and I, Myself, am the Bread of Life, just to name a few). I cannot in good conscience sing songs that have no regard for the liturgy.

Unfortunately, as other posters have indicated in this thread and in others, the problem lies with publishing houses lke OCP, who insist on shoving their tripe down our throats. We don’t need hundreds of new songs each year that contribute nothing to the Mass. We need a common collection of Sacred Music that is doctrinally sound, liturgically appropriate and universal, which is what Liturgicam Authenticam requires us to have in the first place. Until that time comes, you’ll have people like me who are not going to put up with the “feel good, like to teach the world to sing” garbage that is forced upon us by the likes of OCP.
Well, you are free to start or work with your own publishing house to put out a music book to your preferred selection and market it to parishes. Or work with ones who put out ones to your liking and work to give it more exposure. Then parishes will have more options including your preferences. The OCP (and similar ones) is free to publish what they think is best for the parishes.
 
Well, you are free to start or work with your own publishing house to put out a music book to your preferred selection and market it to parishes. Or work with ones who put out ones to your liking and work to give it more exposure. Then parishes will have more options including your preferences. The OCP (and similar ones) is free to publish what they think is best for the parishes.
OCP has been responsible for a good lot of the tripe we have to sing in our parishes today. They have no mandate to publish this kind of garbage. A lot of their hymns aren’t even Catholic in nature.

Again, you are just posting to post.
 
Well, you are free to start or work with your own publishing house to put out a music book to your preferred selection and market it to parishes. Or work with ones who put out ones to your liking and work to give it more exposure. Then parishes will have more options including your preferences. The OCP (and similar ones) is free to publish what they think is best for the parishes.
I don’t think any parish is forced to buy OCP. Somebody somewhere must think they’re good and worth singing. Sometimes I don’t quite understand the lyrics, but maybe it’s me.
 
I don’t think any parish is forced to buy OCP. Somebody somewhere must think they’re good and worth singing. Sometimes I don’t quite understand the lyrics, but maybe it’s me.
They marketed themselves in a way that they are almost a monopoly. There are other sources available, but the others are small most music directors probably do not know about them. It’s almost like Microsoft in the computer business. You can get something other than Windows, Office, etc., but Microsoft is the big time player that has squashed almost all competition.
 
I don’t think any parish is forced to buy OCP. Somebody somewhere must think they’re good and worth singing. Sometimes I don’t quite understand the lyrics, but maybe it’s me.
Read this article and it might help you see why many of us feel the way we do about OCP:

crisismagazine.com/january2002/feature2.htm

It is quite an eye-opener when you see how they hook the parishes into their trap.

Let me know what you think.
 
Read this article and it might help you see why many of us feel the way we do about OCP:

crisismagazine.com/january2002/feature2.htm

It is quite an eye-opener when you see how they hook the parishes into their trap.

Let me know what you think.
Hmmm…not sure exactly what I think. It certainly seems that OCP has a lot of power, and that’s pretty surprising to me. I can just imagine what Archbishop Raymond Burke here would say to OCP if they tried to “rat out” a pastor here for wanting other music.

I think I may try to read it again. We do use Breaking Bread and Response Acclaim. Our choir director tries to use the familiar songs in Breaking Bread, and include something more traditional too most weeks.

I don’t much like the idea of a music publisher dominating what parishes choose for their music, but I think the parishes still choose to buy from them and has to take some responsibility for their choices.
 
Hmmm…not sure exactly what I think. It certainly seems that OCP has a lot of power, and that’s pretty surprising to me. I can just imagine what Archbishop Raymond Burke here would say to OCP if they tried to “rat out” a pastor here for wanting other music.

I think I may try to read it again. We do use Breaking Bread and Response Acclaim. Our choir director tries to use the familiar songs in Breaking Bread, and include something more traditional too most weeks.

I don’t much like the idea of a music publisher dominating what parishes choose for their music, but I think the parishes still choose to buy from them and has to take some responsibility for their choices.
Believe me, I’ve seen this happen down in my neck of the woods. The bad thing is that my parish has bought into it. I tried to get the pastor to look at something different, but OCP has him hook, line and sinker.

A good part of the problem lies in OCP’s marketing and packaging, as indicated in the article. Parishes with small budgets use OCP because it has both disposable misalettes and music together as one package. They also offer grants to parishes if they buy their stuff, and, OCP also peddles its wares during the many “liturgical” conferences they sponsor.

Good, quality hymnals like Adoremus are not exactly affordable, from what I understand. But, maybe someone should ask the Adoremus publsihers if they could work with them to make something affordable. That’ll probably take some of the wind out of OCP>
 
I am an organist in two churches (in Ireland) - one is a big cathedral and the other is a much smaller parish church. In the cathedral there is a cantor and the hymn words are printed on the missalette. The hymns are always well known & liturgically sound. However, I notice that very few in the congregation sing. I am convinced that a major reason for this is the sheer vastness of the building and the small number of parishioners attending (it is a small parish with a huge cathedral-church!). Therefore at this Mass there is often only one or two people in each pew, which means that people can hear themselves singing… I know this sounds absurd; but the majority of people don’t feel confident singing out if they think themselves and others will hear their singing. I believe that most people actually do long to sing but fear they will be embarrassed if they do, and unfortunately this overrides the fact that they should be singing to praise God.

However, in this same Cathedral we have a novena each year to our Mother of Perpetual Help (it is one of the biggest gatherings in the country -religious or secular). Up to 15,000 people attend each day (six sessions daily) and the place is packed to the rafters. The difference when the cathedral is full is amazing - everyone sings. People are bursting to sing out to praise God, and (paradoxically) in the packed atmosphere no one feels exposed.

In the other church where I play, the church have invested in hymnals (quite rare in Irish churches). The Reverend Curate leads the congregation in singing a few hymns, and indeed everyone sings. I feel this is in part due to having the hymnals, partly due to the more intimate size of the church compared to the Cathedral.

A few posters have criticised the organists on this topic. While the hymns should be at the forefront rather than the organ, contrary to what some have said, the organ IS there to lead the congregation - if an organist is simply accompanying the congregation there is a danger that the congregation will start setting their own tempo and everyone ends up singing at a different pace, and then no one feels confident if the hymn is falling to pieces! A properly trained organist will be able to encourage strong singing if they choose and stick to an appropriate tempo - it is important that the beat remains definite. If the organist is slowing down and speeding up, who will sing if they don’t know what to expect?! Also, the properly trained organist will play with delicate phrasing - breaking in places to indicate breaths etc… if the organist can prove they are a confident and competent player, then the congregation will be more at ease & willing to join in singing. Someone also criticised organists who embellish the music - while the melody should be clear, I think it is appropriate in some cases such as last verses to add different chordal combinations, this usually serves to give the last verse a much needed boost after singing to the same harmonisation for several verses!

I also think the Church (clerical & laypersons) have not valued church music as much as they should. We tend to have a very relaxed attitude to it - for example, since the entrance hymn covers the procession to the altar, we often don’t sing all the verses - normally it’s two or three (depending if there’s incence!), the choir’s jaws hit the floor if one suggests they should sing three rather than the usual two verses at the recessional. We are not using the hymns for their purpose- it’s not about the words, expressions, but rather how many verses can we fit in at the offertory before the priest goes to the ‘pray brethren…’. If we don’t value the hymnody as an art form, as a form of prayer, it is no wonder people don’t sing…

It is possible too that some cantors are to blame. For example, some cantors act as if they’re on Broadway or the West End - it is a big performance and this is not what cantoring is about. It does not encourage congregational singing. Sometimes if the cantor has such a sweet voice, people don’t want to join in lest they spoil the cantor’s beautiful singing - this is true; I know of a parish where the Curate used to sing but no one would join in because he was such a good singer. He was then moved to another parish and the Parish Priest took over the singing. He hadn’t a great voice but he lead them anyway, and now they all sing. So cantors need to be leaders, but not performers, I think.

Many more reasons beyond these…but I’ve ranted for far too long. Basically if hymns can come to be regarded as a valuable, worthwhile and effective form of prayer, then I think there will be a Renaissance in Church music… Don’t forget to encourage Gregorian Chant (it is making a comeback you know…) 🙂
 
Thank you, NPC! You make a very good point about traditional hymns - our congregation will sing those. Our cathedral is nowhere near as vast but we use two methods to encourage congregational singing. My choir lines the side aisles and faces inward (towards the congregation) to sing the post-Communion hymn and the beginning verses of the recessional. We find that it encourages folks to sing. The second thing we do is that when the choir is tacit (e.g. the Sunday after Christmas), we consciously position ourselves around the cathedral (with our families) and sing in our “normal” voices. This encourages our parishoners. It particularly helps since we are one with the congregation after usually Corpus Christi.

Of course, it goes without saying that folks will sing the traditional hymns (e.g. Immaculate Mary, Holy God We Praise Thy Name).

I’m not a soloist by any stretch of the imagination - nor are most of us. But a “salting” of the cathedral seems to encourage the congregation to sing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top