Why don't priests have to be Jewish carpenters?

[Bennie_P]

Not a good example, Paul bought his citizenship, he is still a Jew in every sense of the word. Plus Jesus did not call Paul himself during his life, it was after his death. He converted because he had a “vision”.

It doesn’t matter…

The second part of my post is all I wanted to say anyway…

It is not “US” that does the convincing,
John 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them: Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him. And I will raise him up in the last day.

If you think you can convert anyone with logic or worldly wisdom you are sure to fail.

 

[estesbob]

I’m not challenging the authority of the Magisterium. I’m trying to understand why the Magisterium says the male priesthood is rational and not just a matter of faith.

''Who’s definituon of rational?" With all due repsect that is the “presentism” I am talking about. We take an insitution that has been unchanged for 2,000 years and suddenly decide that all who went before us were wrong? Based on what? Modern views on feminism? Modern views on what equality is? New improved views on the God ordained roles of men and Women?

 

[Bennie_P]

Women priest, No Chance.

He didn’t say: “Oops, sorry—I made a terrible mistake! I should have been born into the latter half of the twentieth century, so as to have benefited from the We are Church movement in Germany, or the feminist workshop sessions of America, or the Equal Opportunities legislation in Britain.” On the contrary, he was and remains omnipotent. He knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[Hellisreal]

Christ was married to the Church.
This is important.
The Church is the ** Bride**
of Christ

Thus, in the Latin Rite, Priests are unmarried.

I think your whole post is confusing. The Apostles were men as well.

Why cant I make any sense of your post?

Women can never be Priests in the Catholic Church, period.

No need to worry though, there are many denominations out there that do allow it. But, they lack valid orders and sacraments anyway. Hey but maybe thats not an essential anyway come to think of it. :ehh:

It must be getting harder and harder to pick and choose the quirks one wants in their faith these days and not be forced to start up a new denomination to meet the ever changing desires of the public at large.

Priest have to be male, because it is said that being male was one of Christ’s essential properties, but not brown haired, Jewish or a carpenters, since these are Christ’s accidental properties.

First of all, how does one distinguish between accidental and essential properties when Christ was only one man? One could argue that every property he had was necessarily essential since without other “Christs” it is impossible to tell what made Christ who he was and what attributes weren’t a part of his essence. It could be argued, for example, that being human was an essential property of Christ while being male was not, just as it could be argued that his being conveived as a Jewish male with brown hair, destined to be brought up in an ethnically Jewish household were also essential properties of Christ that a priest ought to have if he is going to act in persona Christi.

Although I’ll admit being male is a much weightier property than hair color or ethnicity, such things are still determined at conception when he became incarnate, so that Christ was dark haired from the moment he was male and many properties besides his sex were determined from the moment he was conceived. Why is sex in a different category than any of these other properties? Why is one necessarily essential to Christ nature and another only accidental, and how do you tell the difference?

Is it solely a matter of tradition, or could a Catholic with no knowledge of tradition reach the same conlusion that priests have to be male but don’t have to be semitic?

 

[mcliffor]

''Who’s definituon of rational?" With all due repsect that is the “presentism” I am talking about. We take an insitution that has been unchanged for 2,000 years and suddenly decide that all who went before us were wrong? Based on what? Modern views on feminism? Modern views on what equality is? New improved views on the God ordained roles of men and Women?

I got it, Tradition. But if Tradition were not all that mattered, then JPII would not have argued that there are rational reasons for limiting the priesthood to men that are responsible for that Tradition. He would have said like the Orthodox do, that’s the Church’s Tradition, end of story. Trying to figure out how Church teachings are allied and not opposed to reason is not presentism.

 

[Hellisreal]

How can a woman be acting In Persona Christi?

Sorry, thats enough reason and logic for me.

Its logical and reasonable! to have female priests is not either one.

 

[estesbob]

I got it, Tradition. But if Tradition were not all that mattered, then JPII would not have argued that there are rational reasons for limiting the priesthood to men that are responsible for that Tradition. He would have said like the Orthodox do, that’s the Church’s Tradition, end of story. Trying to figure out how Church teachings are allied and not opposed to reason is not presentism.

All tradition is based on rationality. But tradition is for the ages-not for just a specific point in time. That was the point John Paul the Great was making.

 

[mcliffor]

Christ was married to the Church.
This is important.
The Church is the Bride
of Christ

Thus, in the Latin Rite, Priests are unmarried.

I think your whole post is confusing. The Apostles were men as well.

Why cant I make any sense of your post?

Women can never be Priests in the Catholic Church, period.

No need to worry though, there are many denominations out there that do allow it. But, they lack valid orders and sacraments anyway. Hey but maybe thats not an essential anyway come to think of it. :ehh:

It must be getting harder and harder to pick and choose the quirks one wants in their faith these days and not be forced to start up a new denomination to meet the ever changing desires of the public at large.

Ok, this is EXACTLY why I use this apologetics forum as a last resort. Completely contrary to the spirit of scholasticism, someone comes here looking to understand the rationality of the Church’s teachings and they must be against the Church, guilty of presentism or a lack of faith. St. Thomas and St. Anselm would get torn apart on these forums because they questioned tradition. No faithful Catholic would ever challenge Church teachings to reach a deeper understanding, would they?

 

[Hellisreal]

Deeper understanding?

That comes from realizing you are not JPII who I think had a much deeper understanding of it IMHO.

I have no problem with people pondering any topic, but its not a topic that can or ever will change.

the appeal to emotion is not going to go far with me either.

Ok, this is EXACTLY why I use this apologetics forum as a last resort. Completely contrary to the spirit of scholasticism, someone comes here looking to understand the rationality of the Church’s teachings and they must be against the Church, guilty of presentism or a lack of faith. St. Thomas and St. Anselm would get torn apart on these forums because they questioned tradition. No faithful Catholic would ever challenge Church teachings to reach a deeper understanding, would they?

 

[estesbob]

Ok, this is EXACTLY why I use this apologetics forum as a last resort. Completely contrary to the spirit of scholasticism, someone comes here looking to understand the rationality of the Church’s teachings and they must be against the Church, guilty of presentism or a lack of faith. St. Thomas and St. Anselm would get torn apart on these forums because they questioned tradition. No faithful Catholic would ever challenge Church teachings to reach a deeper understanding, would they?

If you came here for a deeper understanding then you should have asked what the basis of a male only Priesthood was- Instead you set up the strawman “Why don’t priests have to be Jewish carpenters?” and then got upset when we knocked it down. If you want to taken seriously then ask a serious question.