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mythbuster1
Guest
It is also written, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.” If preaching on Hell scares people out of their sins, it has done its job; the love of the Lord will follow in due time.
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yankeesouth
Guest
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bobperk
Guest
That’s the one I had in mind!
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JSRG
Guest
I feel it is worth pointing out that Paul, in his recorded speeches of Acts and in all of his letters, never said “hell.”
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graciew
Guest
Dictionary : GIFT OF FEAR
GIFT OF FEAR Infused gift of the Holy Spirit that confirms the virtue of hope and inspires a person with profound respect for the majesty of God. Its corresponding effects are protection from sin through dread of offending the Lord, and a strong confidence in the power of his help. The fear of...
www.catholicculture.org
"The fear of the Lord is not servile but filial. It is based on the selfless love of God, whom it shrinks from offending. Whereas in servile fear the evil dreaded is punishment; in filial fear it is the fear of doing anything contrary to the will of God."
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JSRG
Guest
While I expect that at least some near death experiences are legitimate, the problem I have with attempting to use a specific near death experience to try to prove a point is that one can easily find testimony from another near death experiencer who will say something different, sometimes the exact opposite.Ukay:
It’s been said post Vat II, we don’t hear about hell. In my case I can validate that view, because Pre Vat II, we heard about hell all the time however, Vat II ended in 1965. That’s 53 years ago. I can honestly say I’ve not heard in my parish, any homily on hell, and I don’t miss mass on Sunday.
That said,
This was a homily at an EWTN mass that caught my attention. Fr Joseph Mary Wolf retells a near death experience from an Indian priest from Kerala India that happened to Fr Jose in 1985 (20 years AFTER Vat II.) . What caught my attention is that Fr Jose’s guardian angel, said Jesus wanted to see Fr Jose but first he wanted Fr Jose to see hell and purgatory before heaven. In hell, Fr Jose saw priests and bishops there that he knew and didn’t expect to see there, but they were there because of bad example and bad teaching.
here is the story
Fr Jose Maniyangat, near death experience 1985
Thinking outloud,ignoring hell from the teaching? Not good!
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OsculeturMeOsculo
Guest
Two words: narrow gate.
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anon10271182
Guest
They took the Dies Irae out of the Requiem Mass because it was too scary, yes?
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steve-b
Guest
While It’s true the Church doesn’t weigh in on NDE’s yay or nay, there is nothing in the NDE presented that is against anything the Church teaches.steve-b:
While I expect that at least some near death experiences are legitimate, the problem I have with attempting to use a specific near death experience to try to prove a point is that one can easily find testimony from another near death experiencer who will say something different, sometimes the exact opposite.Ukay:
It’s been said post Vat II, we don’t hear about hell. In my case I can validate that view, because Pre Vat II, we heard about hell all the time however, Vat II ended in 1965. That’s 53 years ago. I can honestly say I’ve not heard in my parish, any homily on hell, and I don’t miss mass on Sunday.
That said,
This was a homily at an EWTN mass that caught my attention. Fr Joseph Mary Wolf retells a near death experience from an Indian priest from Kerala India that happened to Fr Jose in 1985 (20 years AFTER Vat II.) . What caught my attention is that Fr Jose’s guardian angel, said Jesus wanted to see Fr Jose but first he wanted Fr Jose to see hell and purgatory before heaven. In hell, Fr Jose saw priests and bishops there that he knew and didn’t expect to see there, but they were there because of bad example and bad teaching.
here is the story
Fr Jose Maniyangat, near death experience 1985
Thinking outloud,
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YoungCatholicGuy
Guest
Jesus Himself said; ‘Repent. I am coming soon.’
If the Second Coming (Apocalypse, Judgement, New Heaven and Earth described in Revelation), was soon 2,000 years ago, How much closer is mankind to that point in history.
If the Second Coming (Apocalypse, Judgement, New Heaven and Earth described in Revelation), was soon 2,000 years ago, How much closer is mankind to that point in history.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The stat actually says that 22 or 23 percent of Catholics go “once a week or more often”.
That doesn’t mean the other 78 percent are automatically Chreasters or not at all. Probably some percentage of them go once a month, or some amount more than twice a year but less than once a week.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
I noticed one of the currently popular musical settings for the communion antiphon is using the opening bars of the Dies Irae.
I get a little scare every time I hear it
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sonofbarry
Guest
The Devil, Hell, punishment and responsibility are too difficult for many people to handle nowadays. Hell also frightens the children. I live in Australia and it’s not mentioned in schools or from the pulpit.
In the same vein, we preach a sanitized, non-confrontational Jesus who is all ‘Sermon on the Mount’, while ignoring the unequivocal demands he placed upon the faithful: humility, self-denial to the point of poverty, forgiveness on every occasion, constant repentance, absolute charity, chastity, and vigilance.
I’ve even heard a priest say that Jesus confronted “the devil within” when he was in the desert. This reduces his greatest moment to a mere crisis of conscience, almost a thought experiment.
Far easier to just ignore the Devil and read the Beatitudes.
There was a great line in the movie ‘The Usual Suspects’: “The Devil’s greatest trick was making people think he doesn’t exist.”
In the same vein, we preach a sanitized, non-confrontational Jesus who is all ‘Sermon on the Mount’, while ignoring the unequivocal demands he placed upon the faithful: humility, self-denial to the point of poverty, forgiveness on every occasion, constant repentance, absolute charity, chastity, and vigilance.
I’ve even heard a priest say that Jesus confronted “the devil within” when he was in the desert. This reduces his greatest moment to a mere crisis of conscience, almost a thought experiment.
Far easier to just ignore the Devil and read the Beatitudes.
There was a great line in the movie ‘The Usual Suspects’: “The Devil’s greatest trick was making people think he doesn’t exist.”
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Dovekin
Guest
This impulse is too hard to resist.
Jesus’ greatest gift was helping people believe he does exist.
Far more is to be gained by learning from Jesus than will be gained by thinking about the devil, or hell, or other “evil.”
Which is not to say there is nothing we can learn from these evils; it is just a waste of time compared to learning from Christ.
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Dovekin
Guest
That is right, the numbers are not hypotheticals. I was referring to their relationship to hell, teaching from Vatican II, when the decline began, etc. Those are the hypotheticals I reject.
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klmt123
Guest
Hell is overflowing out of the church, church attendance is down, why do they need to preach about it? We know where we are going!! 
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steve-b
Guest
What is it you’re trying to justify?steve-b:
The stat actually says that 22 or 23 percent of Catholics go “once a week or more often”.
That doesn’t mean the other 78 percent are automatically Chreasters or not at all. Probably some percentage of them go once a month, or some amount more than twice a year but less than once a week.
Georgetown also gives in that poll and in that section on the study, on mass attendance, the following nuance in explaining how polls vary and why the numbers they post are there…
That said, a whole bunch of Catholics are in mortal sin for deliberately missing mass on Sunday.
Example:
We have 4000 families in our parish. If you put a small number to “family” as in 2 people/family, that is 8000 people minimum in the parish. No way do 8000 people show up for mass on Sunday. Our parish holds 800 people. We have 5 Masses (4 on Sunday, +1 vigil mass on Saturday). If each mass is full, which it isn’t, that’s 5 x 800 = 4000 total people the Church can hold for all the masses.
Where are the other 4000? That’s assuming 50% don’t show up. In actuality, for better accuracy, that’s why polls are taken in any parish.
Christmas and Easter, is so over the top packed, The gym has to be incorporated.
The numbers from Georgetown , a Catholic university BTW, represent the usual numbers used today describing mass attendance.
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steve-b
Guest
That is right, the numbers are not hypotheticals. I was referring to their relationship to hell, teaching from Vatican II, when the decline began, etc. Those are the hypotheticals I reject.
steve-b:
Joking aside,
We’re not talking about a bet / wager, nor are we talking about $'s. It’s souls. When the flood came, how many in the population were saved? Very few. While we don’t know what the total population was at that time, we DO know how many were saved in the ark. A total of 8 people. Meaning everyone else perished.
When Jesus, God the Son, spoke in the beginning and all that is came into existence, came in the flesh as a sacrifice for sin and savior of humanity, was asked, is it true only a few are saved? Jesus, knowing everything that will come, didn’t deny that. He validated that only a few are saved. Meaning while He died for everyone, in spite of all He did, only a few actually take advantage of what He taught. IOW they don’t do and they die in disobedience to what He taught. And Jesus is looking out over all creation till the end of time to give us ALL a huge heads up…
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Dovekin
Guest
How does that validate that only a few are saved? What could he have said to convince you many would be saved?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Nothing. I’m stating a fact.
You’re the one making an argument and I noted an apparent flaw in the logic is all.
I had a few courses in stats. One of them was at Georgetown.
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