Why don't Protestants believe in purgatory?

[Starwarsfan2]

Where can we find this theology from the Apostles? I’m curious because I’ve not seen it in the Word of God.

Blessings!

Rita

Same

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Scripture is very clear when it says, “But nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]” (Rev. 21:27). Hab. 1:13 says, “You [God]… are of purer eyes than to behold evil and cannot look on wrong…”

How many of us will be perfectly sanctified at the time of our deaths? How many unconfessed venial sins (thoughts/words/deeds) will we have at the time of our death? I dare say most of us will be in need of further purification in order to enter the gates of heaven after we die, if we die in a state of grace.

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

 

[Techno2000]

I’m sorry, I guess I didn’t make myself clear. I knew where this verse was, I’m wondering about the reason the veil was torn that was given; where is this found in the Bible?

I took it to mean that God was angered by what man did to his Son.

 

[Reuben_J]

I took it to mean that God was angered by what man did to his Son.

I thought too. The earth quake. The veil in the temple torn in two. God must be very disappointed and angered by what they did to His Son. Also not very often that the Son of God was murdered. Also it was God’s own Son that was killed. Like he goes with a bang (which seemed to be what the centurion was saying - truly this is the Son of God). I mean the assumption can go on and on, on why the veil was torn in two, without explicit reason mentioned in the Bible.

 

[Horton]

I’m sorry, I guess I didn’t make myself clear. I knew where this verse was, I’m wondering about the reason the veil was torn that was given; where is this found in the Bible?

Correct me if I’m wrong but, when I learned about this in RCIA it was explained to me this way. The veil was in the temple in front of the holy of holies and only the very high priests were allowed to through it. In a sense keeping God from being accessed by the Jews. At the crucifixion, at the moment of death, God split the veil making Himself available to all through Christ. That His love & mercy were for all, Jew & Gentile alike.

 

[benjohnson]

Scripture is very clear when it says, “But nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]” (Rev. 21:27). Hab. 1:13 says, “You [God]… are of purer eyes than to behold evil and cannot look on wrong…”

Indeed, Lutherans agree on a purging before the supreme gift of approaching heaven.

What you won’t find us doing is tracking down old Catholic prayer cards that promise specific years off Purgatory. The good news is that this practice has mostly stopped in the Catholic church, but for a wile at least, most Lutherans equate Purgatory with things found in recent Catholic gift shops:

 

[benjohnson]

That said, if Purgatory that exists more than an experience of purging of sins. no Lutheran would be sad, in that it would mean that Christ has found a place for us at the table and is waiting with supreme patience on us sinners.

 

[Techno2000]

Correct me if I’m wrong but, when I learned about this in RCIA it was explained to me this way. The veil was in the temple in front of the holy of holies and only the very high priests were allowed to through it. In a sense keeping God from being accessed by the Jews. At the crucifixion, at the moment of death, God split the veil making Himself available to all through Christ. That His love & mercy were for all, Jew & Gentile alike.

Or it could mean that God was now going to sever his ties to the Jewish Religion and start something new ?

 

[cmodrmac]

“You have to be literally perfect to enter heaven”

can someone elaborate on that statement is that Catholic Teaching -by suffering for our sins-we are made perfect?? -the stain of sin is removed???

I just need some elaboration-

 

[Horton]

Or it could mean that God was now going to sever his ties to the Jewish Religion and start something new ?

From - jesus.org/death-and-resurrection/the-crucifixion/why-did-the-veil-in-the-temple-rip.html
*In the inner court of the temple in Jerusalem, in the Holy of Holies, was the Ark of the Covenant. That was where the high priest would go once a year to offer atonement for the sins of the people. A veil, a very thick, woven curtain, separated the Holy of Holies from the rest of the temple.

When Jesus died on the cross as a sacrifice for our sins, that heavy curtain was torn from top to bottom. It was not ripped from bottom to top, as though a man were ripping it. Instead, it was ripped from top to bottom, because God was ripping it.

God was saying, “You no longer are on the outside. You can come in. My Son has made a way for you.”

The apostle Paul explained how we can now draw near to God:

Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith. (Hebrews 10:19–22)
The veil was torn. Jesus is now our Intercessor. We don’t have to go through a person to reach God anymore. We don’t have to go through rituals anymore. Instead, Jesus made a new and living way for us to reach God.

Jesus paid it all. And that is so important to remember.*

 

[Horton]

“You have to be literally perfect to enter heaven”

can someone elaborate on that statement is that Catholic Teaching -by suffering for our sins-we are made perfect?? -the stain of sin is removed???

I just need some elaboration-

From the CCC

*III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607 (954, 1472)
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608
*

 

[spedteacherita]

I have heard this meaning about the temple veil being torn many times. Can you please tell me where I can find this in Scripture? I have never been able to find it. Or is it just an opinion of what it means? Michelle Arnold one time had an article and she gave a different analogy for this. Here is the link to the article, I found it very interesting.

catholic.com/blog/michelle-arnold/the-ripping-of-the-veil

I thought Michelle’s take on the rending of the curtains as an expression of God’s grief was interesting but I was taught to understand that Jesus’ death was a final atonement for our sins and that the rending of the veil in the temple at the time of His death was a sign that God would not have to be approached through any more sacrifices thru the priests of the temple. (run on sentence… sorry)

We are reminded of this in Hebrews:

Hebrews 4:14-16New International Version (NIV)

Jesus the Great High Priest
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[a] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Merry Christmas!

Rita

 

[spedteacherita]

From - jesus.org/death-and-resurrection/the-crucifixion/why-did-the-veil-in-the-temple-rip.html
*In the inner court of the temple in Jerusalem, in the Holy of Holies, was the Ark of the Covenant. That was where the high priest would go once a year to offer atonement for the sins of the people. A veil, a very thick, woven curtain, separated the Holy of Holies from the rest of the temple.

When Jesus died on the cross as a sacrifice for our sins, that heavy curtain was torn from top to bottom. It was not ripped from bottom to top, as though a man were ripping it. Instead, it was ripped from top to bottom, because God was ripping it.

God was saying, “You no longer are on the outside. You can come in. My Son has made a way for you.”

The apostle Paul explained how we can now draw near to God:

Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith. (Hebrews 10:19–22)*
The veil was torn. Jesus is now our Intercessor. We don’t have to go through a person to reach God anymore. We don’t have to go through rituals anymore. Instead, Jesus made a new and living way for us to reach God.

Jesus paid it all. And that is so important to remember.

Thank you for these verses!

Rita

 

[Reuben_J]

“You have to be literally perfect to enter heaven”

can someone elaborate on that statement is that Catholic Teaching -by suffering for our sins-we are made perfect?? -the stain of sin is removed???

I just need some elaboration-

Perhaps the word often used is ‘nothing unclean’ (Rev 21:7) which can refer to as being perfect (from sin).

It is possible that we may be not perfectly clean when we die even though we are forgiven of our sin because there is sin that cannot be forgiven (Mt 12:32).

Thus we may need to be purified of our sin. 1 Cor 3:15 speaks of bad work (sin) that needs to go through fire.

Of course, as can be seen here, there would be no 100 percent consensus on the meaning of Biblical verse. I can understand by using the Bible to justify purgatory would also be met with disagreement. I feel, however, there is equally strong rational for purgatory in the Bible than for those think it is not in the Bible.

 

[guanophore]

I just don’t get it? Who is to say that we are even worthy of entering the kingdom of heaven, with our Perfect Heavenly Father? How dare anyone say and assume that we are going to heaven after we die, how are Protestants so certain? You have to be literally perfect to enter heaven, how are Protestants so sure they don’t need purgatory? Purgatory just makes perfect sense.

Some protestants that accept the Apostolic Teaching do believe in purgatory, but they just think of it differently. They believe the transformation/cleansing happens in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. Because they agree that nothing unclean can enter heaven, and although Jesus credits us with righteousness by faith, we are still fallen creatures.

 

[guanophore]

I’d like to see it too. From what i know, the apostles taught that Christ himself purged (purgation) our sins. Heb.1:3 ,2Pt1:9 etc.

Yes, He does. Whatever left in us at the end of this life is purged from us by His grace, so that we can be holy and without blemish. Not just “declared” so, but actually so.

 

[Wannano]

Some protestants that accept the Apostolic Teaching do believe in purgatory, but they just think of it differently. They believe the transformation/cleansing happens in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. Because they agree that nothing unclean can enter heaven, and although Jesus credits us with righteousness by faith, we are still fallen creatures.

Seems like the perfect concept, I wish I would have thought of it!

 

[guanophore]

Perhaps the word often used is 'nothing unclean' (Rev 21:7) which can refer  to  as being perfect (from sin).

It is possible that we may be not perfectly clean when we die even though we are forgiven of our sin because there is sin that cannot be forgiven (Mt 12:32).

Those who have mortal sin will not be destined for heaven, and will not find purgation after death.

It is the consequences of sin, and our fallen state of concupicsence (attachment to sin) that needs to be purged.

Thus we may need to be purified of our sin. 1 Cor 3:15 speaks of bad work (sin) that needs to go through fire.

The concept of purgatory, like that of the Trinity may be found in scripture but it is through the Divine deposit of faith that came to us from the Apostles that we get these terms.

 

[JonNC]

Some protestants that accept the Apostolic Teaching do believe in purgatory, but they just think of it differently. They believe the transformation/cleansing happens in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. Because they agree that nothing unclean can enter heaven, and although Jesus credits us with righteousness by faith, we are still fallen creatures.

If one listens to (the late) Father George Tavard and Ct. Ratzinger / Pope Benedict, this cleansing or purgation as “momentary” can be considered appropriate for a Catholic, as well.

Father Tavard showed how purgatory has been understood by Catholics as both a place of punishment and a state of cleansing, perhaps even momentary, at the time of death. Among the mystics, the latter image has greater prominence inasmuch as final purgation means an encounter with the “fire” of divine love which removes the effects of sin on the human person.

usccb.org/news/2006/06-212.cfm

Pope Benedict:

The encounter with him is the decisive act of judgment. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms and frees us, allowing us to become truly ourselves. All that we build during our lives can prove to be mere straw, pure bluster, and it collapses. Yet in the pain of this encounter, when the impurity and sickness of our lives become evident to us, there lies salvation. His gaze, the touch of his heart heals us through an undeniably painful transformation “as through fire”. But it is a blessed pain, in which the holy power of his love sears through us like a flame, enabling us to become totally ourselves and thus totally of God. In this way the inter-relation between justice and grace also becomes clear: the way we live our lives is not immaterial, but our defilement does not stain us for ever if we have at least continued to reach out towards Christ, towards truth and towards love. Indeed, it has already been burned away through Christ’s Passion.** At the moment of judgment we experience and we absorb the overwhelming power of his love over all the evil in the world and in ourselves. The pain of love becomes our salvation and our joy**

and:

“It is clear that we cannot calculate the ‘duration’ of this transforming burning in terms of the chronological measurements of this world. The transforming ‘moment’ of this encounter eludes earthly time-reckoning—it is the heart’s time, it is the time of ‘passage’ to communion with God in the Body of Christ.”

The Luther / Catholic document, The Hope of Eternal Life, explores at length the relationship between contemporary Lutheran and Catholic thinking on the topic. One conclusion is draws is this: **“This teaching makes clear that the Catholic doctrine of purgatory and the Lutheran teaching of the self being purified by death-and-resurrection intend to describe the same reality—namely, the process by which the self, distracted during this life by sin and the remnants of sin, is turned fully to Christ, purified of all that would hinder perfect communion with God, Christ, and the saints that will be the life of heaven.” **

Jon

 

[guanophore]

If one listens to (the late) Father George Tavard and Ct. Ratzinger / Pope Benedict, this cleansing or purgation as “momentary” can be considered appropriate for a Catholic, as well.

usccb.org/news/2006/06-212.cfm

Pope Benedict:

and:

The Luther / Catholic document, The Hope of Eternal Life, explores at length the relationship between contemporary Lutheran and Catholic thinking on the topic. One conclusion is draws is this: **“This teaching makes clear that the Catholic doctrine of purgatory and the Lutheran teaching of the self being purified by death-and-resurrection intend to describe the same reality—namely, the process by which the self, distracted during this life by sin and the remnants of sin, is turned fully to Christ, purified of all that would hinder perfect communion with God, Christ, and the saints that will be the life of heaven.” **

Jon

Awesome Jon. Happy Christmas.