Why don't some Protestants like the cross?

[jmcrae]

I’m not too sure that the “devil” pays any attention to our symbols and images we use to remind ourselves…

Of course he does; otherwise what would be the point of his giving non-Christian peoples idolotrous religions? If images and symbols are of no interest to him, then why does the sin of idolotry even exist? (Or why would it be a sin?)

if the “devil” is troubled at all, I would think it would be over the “empty tomb”…the “devil” is outside of time so the significance of the cross and empty tomb is ever before him…our pices of wood and plaster we venerate really have no impact on the “devil.”

Yes, but the devil has to act in time, to tempt people and pull them away from their faith. The more uncomfortable we can make him, the less time he will spend on us.

 

[Publisher]

Of course he does; otherwise what would be the point of his giving non-Christian peoples idolotrous religions? If images and symbols are of no interest to him, then why does the sin of idolotry even exist? (Or why would it be a sin?)

Yes, but the devil has to act in time, to tempt people and pull them away from their faith. The more uncomfortable we can make him, the less time he will spend on us.

We will just have to disagree on the whole “image” and “devil” issue…

 

[qui_est_ce]

Telling about feel good religion!..and maybe part of why we Catholics get the stereotype of having lots of guilt all the time.

Cecilia

I just did my first Holy Hour in 25 years on Saturday. It felt good to spend quiet time with Jesus. What is sad, there were only ten people there. Bless our pastor, we have one weekly anyway. Then I see you have this as your signature. Suddenly Holy Hours are everywhere!

My daughter’s Confirmation name is Cecilia.

You did great evangelizing your Methodist friend in a charitable manner.

 

[PaulDupre]

If we are not supposed to focus on Jesus’ death, then why does St. Paul remind us:

For every time you eat this bread and drink this cup, you are announcing the Lord’s death until he comes again. (1 Corinthians 11:26 )

Notice, he does not say “you are announcing the Lord’s resurrection”. He says “you are announcing the Lord’s death”. We recite this passage at every mass, when the eucharist has been consecrated.

If Protestants do not want to “announce the Lord’s death”, then it is one more evidence of just how far they have drifted from the bible and from the gospel that it preaches.

God bless,
Paul

 

[Mannyfit75]

Protestant should embrace the cross. For one, without the cross there would be no resurrection, and Jesus atoning for our sins would be fruitless.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I am genuinely interested to hear forum member’s share their interpretations of this text in Gal.6; and yes; feel free to use other related texts in association with Gal.6:14, if it helps you to explain it better. My only aim is to see what people think of it.

Gal 6:14
‘But may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world’

It’s very basic Catholic Christian teaching.
We should not boast in our accomplishments, but rather unite ourselves to the sufferings of Christ on the Cross. Our hope, our salvation comes from the Cross, which He suffered for our sins.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

So many people in general don’t like to see the image of Jesus crucified. Even in several Catholic churches now I’ve seen a “risen Christ” crucifix. People don’t want to focus on the suffering, they want to focus on the resurrection. I certainly count myself among those who like to remember Christ as the victor. However, it’s just as important to remember that without the cross there would have been no resurrection.

Without the Resurrection, He would have been no more than another rotting corpse. There was, after all, nothing special about being crucified. Crucifixion does not of itself lead to victory over death. The Passion only makes sense as part of something larger - that is, of the events of Holy Thursday - Good Friday - Easter Sunday.​

 

[tptram]

Tantum Ergo for President.

I second that

 

[Protestant101]

Pardon me but your post #43 quotes the verse as:

Since this is only half of the verse, I’d say you are not only looking at the verse out of it’s textural element but you’re looking at part of a verse and then asking for opinions.

Truly I don’t mean any disrespect, but these letters were not written verse by verse. They were written as a whole and should be read as such. If one wants to know what a word means in the verse, or what a verse means, look at the text around it first. You’ll usually find the answer without much trouble.

I agree, and I never said it was “wrong” to look at a single verse. I only asked why you were looking at it and trying to understand it by itself; without the help of the surrounding text.

While the chapter and verse system is a nice aid to Bible study, I have seen and heard too much cherry picking of Bible verses…
I guess I am a bit touchy about this type of thing.
If I offended, Please accept my apology.

Blessings
James

You have not offended; yet neither have you explained to us what you think Gal.6:14 means. I used the portion of the text which I felt would be good to emphasize; however, you are of course free to explain the entire verse. To be honest; my intention was to focus on only one word in Gal 6:14; and that was the author’s use of the word “cross.” I did invite forum members to share other related texts; but the point is, is that the author used the word “cross” and I am looking for explanations or understandings of why he might have done this and what the word “cross” means as used in this verse. Therefore you have failed to even prove your “out of context” charges here.

If you go back and read post #43; I gave the example of 9-11 where a Catholic Nun was making “the sign of the cross;” and I made the comment that I did not see the use of “cross” in Gal.6:14 as applying to what I saw this Nun doing. You and other Catholics love to bring up the charge of “cherry-picking” if someone quotes Bible verses that you don’t agree with; but the Bible uses the word “cross” in different places for different reasons, and with different meanings, so the charge of “cherry-picking” is useless.

Lets figure out together here what the Bible means in Gal. 6:14, and then “cherry-pick” another text that uses the word “cross;” and see if there are any differences in the meanings. How can that be “cherry-picking?” Surely you are not saying it is wrong to “search the scriptures?” (Jo.5:39).

Surely you must have some ideas about Gal.6:14; what are they?

 

[JRKH]

Surely you must have some ideas about Gal.6:14; what are they?

Actually if you look at my post # 56 I really think I answered your question as to my ideas. They corrospond with the footnote I sited and I couldn’t express it better.

James

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

I think logically Cross should not be liked by the Catholics as well. Cross is a **sign of torture **to our beloved JesusYeshuaIssa, not a symbol of rejoice. Has anybody loved the **sword or gun **with which one’s beloved has been miserably injured . Not a single person in the world.

It is a matter of satisfaction that the Jews of the time of Jesus tried to kill Jesus on the Cross, but they never succeeded in their attempted murder of Jesus on Cross. Jesus died naturally and peacefully in India and is buried there.

It is for this reason that we Muslims don’t like Cross; though we respect your religion.

Muhammad prophesized in Hadith that in Jesus’ Second Coming, Jesus would break the Cross himself. I give hereunder two Hadith in this connection:

1. Yushaku man aasha minkum ianyulka eisabna maryama imamun mahduyyun , hakamun iadualun yakserus saleba wa yaktulul khinzera

One who would be alive (at that time), he would meet Issa (JesusYeshua) s/o Maryam (MaryMerium) in the position of ImamMahdi (DivineGuided), a truthful judge (among faiths/religions); **he would break the Cross **(with arguments) and kill the swine. (Masnad Ahmad 156/2)

1. Abu Hurairah narrated from the Prophet Muhammad SAW that he said:
   I swear by Him in whose hands rests my life or death that you would definitely witness advent of the Ibne Maryam (Son of Mary); a truthful judge (among faiths/religions), he would **break the Cross **(with arguments) and kill the swine and suspend the war (for religious conversion).
   (Bukhari Kitabul Anbeya, Bab Nazul-e Essa Ibne Maryam)

Thanks

 

[Protestant101]

Hi

Muhammad prophesized in Hadith that in Jesus’ Second Coming, Jesus would break the Cross himself. I give hereunder two Hadith in this connection:

1. Yushaku man aasha minkum ianyulka eisabna maryama imamun mahduyyun , hakamun iadualun yakserus saleba wa yaktulul khinzera

One who would be alive (at that time), he would meet Issa (JesusYeshua) s/o Maryam (MaryMerium) in the position of ImamMahdi (DivineGuided), a truthful judge (among faiths/religions); **he would break the Cross **(with arguments) and kill the swine. (Masnad Ahmad 156/2)

1. Abu Hurairah narrated from the Prophet Muhammad SAW that he said:
   I swear by Him in whose hands rests my life or death that you would definitely witness advent of the Ibne Maryam (Son of Mary); a truthful judge (among faiths/religions), he would **break the Cross **(with arguments) and kill the swine and suspend the war (for religious conversion).
   (Bukhari Kitabul Anbeya, Bab Nazul-e Essa Ibne Maryam)

Thanks

Your signature speaks eloquently of “peace” but you don’t seem to be peaceful. It would be interesting to see what is really meant by “swine” in your holy quotes here. Jesus Himself acknowledged and accepted the cross; and the rude punishments that it entailed. Your prophet Muhammad cannot do what Jesus has already done; Jesus, King of Kings and Lord of Lords has already broken the cross, and it’s ugly power of death.

Isa 53:3

He is despised and rejected of men; a Man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as it were a hiding of faces from Him, He being despised, and we esteemed Him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was on Him; and with His stripes we ourselves are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, each one to his own way; and Jehovah has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and He was afflicted; yet He opened not His mouth. He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter; and as a sheep before its shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare His generation? For He was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of My people He was stricken.
Isa 53:9 And He put His grave with the wicked, and with a rich one in His death; although He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased Jehovah to crush Him; to grieve Him; that He should put forth His soul as a guilt-offering. He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the will of Jehovah shall prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see the fruit of the travail of His soul. He shall be fully satisfied. By His knowledge shall My righteous Servant justify for many; and He shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide to Him with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong; because He has poured out His soul to death; and He was counted among the transgressors; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for transgressors.

 

[Protestant101]

Actually if you look at my post # 56 I really think I answered your question as to my ideas. They corrospond with the footnote I sited and I couldn’t express it better.

James

Ok; I can accept that; if you say this is your answer, I didn’t realize that. I will get back to you soon.

 

[passioncrosslov]

Nail hit on the head. Symbolically an empty Cross shows the victory over Death Christ has and his death and resurrection are tied together and free us from the bondage of Death and original sin.

To keep Christ on the Cross says that everything stop there and the rest doesn’t matter that much. Yet the victory and the crushing of the serpents head wasn’t just the Cross it was also Christ rising from the Grave and reigning at the right hand of the Father.

O Death where is your victory, o grave where is your sting!

… And how would you go about dealing with the hardships and pains of life? Do you immediately seek a scape-goat to avoid pain, take it out on someone else, or blame it on someone else? Or, would you rather offer it up to uor Lord as a sacrifice out of love for Him, just as He has sacrificed Himself for your salvation?

 

[fellowChristian]

My opinion based on talking with Protestants.

They want to focus on the “Happy” times not the “Sad” times. We were saved through the crucifixion. A crucifix reminds me of how much He loves me. Reminds me that sin is evil and how sins are deadly.

Our lives are not always happy. There are blessings that come from suffering and if you don’t believe me look at a crucifix.

Some people only want to remember the “good times”.

And that whole “Jesus is my homeboy” all the focus on the “Personal relationship with Jesus” it’s just to casual.

Where is the reverance? God is not my “buddy” the relationship I have with Him is anything but casual. He is our Creator!

 

[VeronicaAnne]

Hi, Protestant 101. Nice to meet you!

In response about the importance of our Lord and Savior’s body on a cross (a.k.a. crucifix) that I wear 24/7 under my clothes… may I try to respond to your question about this quote

what does it mean to you when you read the scripture that says:

“But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ,?”

I’m thinking how would you know, anyway, about any particular cross that it is “the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ” unless on that particular cross the statuette of his body is placed?

Otherwise, an empty cross could be anybody else’s cross…

Just my humble opinion… thanks for listening…

 

[mozart-250]

If Catholics ate cheese & Protestants did not, we’d probably be arguing over that. ​

:clapping: :tiphat:

Given the overwhelming positive response by Protestants to the move “Passion of Christ”, I would say the premise of this thread is flawed.

 

[rmcmullan]

Given the overwhelming positive response by Protestants to the move “Passion of Christ”, I would say the premise of this thread is flawed.

I did not go see that movie–I avoid R movies but too many times I have seen or heard people enthusiastically reliving the crucifiction. Empassioned talks, in this case a movie, so called “inspirational” talks. I could never understand it. It still creeps me out.

What really annoys me about all this, besides its creepiness, is that His suffering in Gethsemane is rarely touched upon or explained. The thing about the atonement, the Mediator between God and Man. The tie back into the Garden of Eden to the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge. Everything reduced to a mindless gorefest (in the case of the movie).

 

[PaulDupre]

The “passion” contains a very poignant portrayal of the agony in the garden. Mindless gorefest??? You should see a film before you pronounce judgment on it. Your “mindless” obedience to the LDS restriction on “R” rated movies has robbed you of a priceless experience.

The LDS prohibition on “R” rated films is intended to keep you apart from unwholesome influences, not to keep you from understanding the suffering Christ endured for your sake.

 

[Delphinus85]

And my favorite actor takes no chances–he wears the cross and the crucifix at the same time, along with three saints!

Which actor is that?