Why don't traditional catholics simply convert to eastern orthodoxy.

[GandalfTheWhite]

What I don’t get is how can you claim that you’re a traditionalist, complain about all the ecumenism etc. and then end up fully participating in the Orthodox liturgy…but nevermind.

 

[rien]

Season’s Greetings

I am surprised that more traditional roman catholic don’t attend orthodox churches. I have thought about this myself. I live 30-60 minutes driving time from the nearest tlm chapel be it indult, sspx, or sedevacantis group. But the EO church is right in my neighborhood. The Divine Liturgy there is beautiful and the reverence for the eucharist goes behind anything I have seen at a mainstream novous ordo. The price of gas may be a factor in my conversion. Thank you and God bless you.

Actually the EO like to boast here that 25% of their congregations are former Catholics. Orthodox, as in former small “o” orthodox Catholics.- I assume there are some former traditionalists in this wave of conversion to EO from Catholocism.

Whether it is to EO or evangelicalism, the church here is collapsing as the rank and file leave.

As I said, I think a lot of proto-traditioanlists who don’t have an Indult or SPPX near them have swum the river to Constantinople.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actually the EO like to boast here that 25% of their congregations are former Catholics. Orthodox, as in former small “o” orthodox Catholics.- I assume there are some former traditionalists in this wave of conversion to EO from Catholocism.

Whether it is to EO or evangelicalism, the church here is collapsing as the rank and file leave.

As I said, I think a lot of proto-traditioanlists who don’t have an Indult or SPPX near them have swum the river to Constantinople.

I don’t know about conversions to EO because there are no EO churches anywhere near here, and I don’t know anyone who did that. There are, however, lots of Evangelicals and SSPX. Around here, the RC to Evangelical (or any other Protestant church) change is almost 100% due to remarriage after a divorce. The Evangelical to RC conversions in my part of the world massively outnumber the RC to Protestant conversions of any kind.

The SSPX I know around here would no more turn EO than they would turn Baptist. I know those people, and I know how they think. Again, I can only talk about what I know, but I do not see a lot of traditionalist Catholics going SSPX anymore. Most of those families went SSPX a long time ago and just stayed there. Traditionalist-oriented Catholics (like me) who did not go SSPX are just waiting for the next bishop, which will not be long now. Considering that the neighboring bishops in my state are Burke and Finn, and that the indult Mass has been long established in the other two bordering (other states) dioceses, there is considerable reason for optimism. I’m not thinking of changing where I’m going at all. After waiting all this time, I’ll abandon our beloved Pope now, or even go dissident like the SSPX? Not me.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I have considerable hope that things will change too for two reasons. One is simply that there are a whole bunch of us who remember what things were like before V II and “we’re not dead yet”. Two is all of the young people today who have discovered their heritage.

I am Roman Catholic. We are either faithful to the Magesterium or not. We either believe that when Our Lord said “You are Peter”, He meant it or not. Credo. I believe.

Like my younger brother - one day up and decided that HMC was the harlot Babylon. Joined a Southern Baptist Church and was rebaptized - willing to discuss his decision with anyone but me. His local church later became charismatic and dropped out of the SBC to become a storefront church.

I am reminded of Rod Dreher. Rod was a movie reviewer here in Baton Rouge way back when and swam the Tiber. Wrote all sorts of articles for the “People” section of our local newspaper about how wonderful it was to become Roman Catholic. He got a better job offer in Dallas, joined the orthodox and was baptized for the third time in glorious color on Beliefnet. As went my younger brother, so goes so many other “traditional catholics”.

Credo. I believe.

 

[Hesychios]

Actually the EO like to boast here that 25% of their congregations are former Catholics.

I am Orthodox and I never encountered that statistic. I assume that you mean Orthodox in your local community.

However, that could possibly apply to some parishes I have visited.

…As I said, I think a lot of proto-traditioanlists who don’t have an Indult or SPPX near them have swum the river to Constantinople.

I doubt that it has ever been a very simple process for most traditional Catholics.

I think perhaps that some of the (primarily liturgical) issues in the latin church have caused seeds of doubt to grow and bloom in the minds of some very frustrated individuals. For that reason, they might visit an Orthodox parish out of frustration.

Orthodoxy still requires a different mindset, and the theological constructs are different (strongly reinforced by the text of the liturgy). The change of heart and mind takes a long time to develop, and requires a certain openness on the part of the individual. I think that is the part the doubt plays in this.

 

[AnthonyJ]

I think Dreher was chrismated when he joined the Orthodox Church. He was probably only baptized once as a Protestant and received by confirmation into Catholicism.

I have considerable hope that things will change too for two reasons. One is simply that there are a whole bunch of us who remember what things were like before V II and “we’re not dead yet”. Two is all of the young people today who have discovered their heritage.

I am Roman Catholic. We are either faithful to the Magesterium or not. We either believe that when Our Lord said “You are Peter”, He meant it or not. Credo. I believe.

Like my younger brother - one day up and decided that HMC was the harlot Babylon. Joined a Southern Baptist Church and was rebaptized - willing to discuss his decision with anyone but me. His local church later became charismatic and dropped out of the SBC to become a storefront church.

I am reminded of Rod Dreher. Rod was a movie reviewer here in Baton Rouge way back when and swam the Tiber. Wrote all sorts of articles for the “People” section of our local newspaper about how wonderful it was to become Roman Catholic. He got a better job offer in Dallas, joined the orthodox and was baptized for the third time in glorious color on Beliefnet. As went my younger brother, so goes so many other “traditional catholics”.

Credo. I believe.

 

[THurifer2]

I wouldn’t do it…But if i wanted to I will tell you that in my entire state there is only two eastern orthodox churches both of which require over 100 miles of driving to attend.

 

[jj2011]

And i pray that the Old ways will one day become the norm.

Scott

This is more plausible than people think, because modern seminaries have emptied while traditionalist seminaries are full.

 

[Volodymyr_988]

It really makes no sense for a Roman Catholic to convert to another church, even mine, over the liturgy.

No Roman Catholic should consider Holy Orthodoxy on that basis. It is a different theology, really too different. People should not think about it without learning something of the theology first, and be willing and able to embrace it.

A good first step could be one of the Eastern Catholic churches, which can accomodate your need to be under the Pope, have a dignified liturgy, and also actively participate in a community reflecting another part of the universality of the church.

One side benefit that I did not anticipate before I experienced it, was the relatively smaller size of the parishes. It is easy to make real friends in the parish, and impossible to hide. One becomes involved rather quickly, and it is not only an enriching experience, it can be fun too. Plus the more immediate relationship with the pastor, who can be your spiritual director in a very tangible way.

A move to Orthodoxy would not be good for someone convinced that the Papacy is ordered as it should be. In that case bloom where you are planted.

Michael,

I know this all too well. If I miss Liturgy and go to the local Novus Ordo Mass, Father will call me up and ask “Where you been? I heard you stopped goin’ to Church!”

Z’Bohom,

Volodka

 

[brotherhrolf]

I think Dreher was chrismated when he joined the Orthodox Church. He was probably only baptized once as a Protestant and received by confirmation into Catholicism.

I’m not so sure but I don’t know for certain. His “witness” (to use a Protesant term) was certainly a lot different here in Catholic south Louisana than it was when he moved to Dallas.

 

[bkovacs]

I attend an EO Church regularly, do to the lack of a TLM close by. But in all honesty, many traditional Catholics have a strong hope in the church. That more TLM’s will be offered, and hopefully daily. Now more than ever there is a good chance of change. Hence why they remain. And many traditional Catholic priests often compare the similarities, between the TLM and Divine Liturgy, to make a point. You can’t compare the modern Mass with the Divine Liturgy, because in my view there is no comparison. Only between the TLM and Divine Liturgy. Just my two cents! . And it’s also good to gather an understanding between the differences in the sprirituality of the East and West. We all can learn from both. It’s nice to learn about God from both St John Chrysostom, and St Thomas Aquinas.

 

[FrancisJude]

Some people ask: Why would anyone convert to EO because of the Liturgy?

Pope Benedict has stated that the Liturgy is everything, and that the Church rises or falls because of the Liturgy. That sounds pretty crucial and important to me.

The fact is, I attend the NO Mass and more often than not, I wind up walking out. The horrible music–guitars, Protestant style hymns–; the casual attitude–altar servers in sneakers, in some cases secular dress, the priest in a NO ‘potato sack’ rather than a real vestment, the lack of incense, chants; all the lay activity, especially with the choir in front of the church, nuns with big hairdos in skirts…it is really awful. There is nothing Catholic about this. Go to an Orthodox Mass and you will see none of this. What does this tell you? Which Church has remained true to the Early Church? If the EO Church has valid sacraments, what’s the problem? The Catholic Church is currently in the hands of suspect influences (read Malachi Martin), a super force that wants to humanize it and make it even more ‘Protestant friendly.’ The damage has already been done. Thank God for the TLM and the growing trend of traditionalism. This is encouraging. But go to any ordinary Catholic parish and you get horrible stuff: bad secular and Protestant style hymns, hand shaking evangelicalism, tacky altar tables in churches that resemble conference halls–this is a supreme sacrilige. Catholics need to speak up and stop being so apathetic about the destruction of their Church. The attitude, “Oh well, if the bishops think this is okay, then we will go along,” is sinful and shameful. We have witnessed the destruction of the Church. Orthodoxy is to be admired. They have held fast to tradition–do you see Orthodox nuns in skirts and hoop earrings? Do you hear “On Eagles Wings” at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy? Sorry folks, you are being too apologetic and vanilla in your acceptance of the Novus Ordo.

 

[dmar198]

Some people ask: Why would anyone convert to EO because of the Liturgy?

Pope Benedict has stated that the Liturgy is everything, and that the Church rises or falls because of the Liturgy. That sounds pretty crucial and important to me.

The fact is, I attend the NO Mass and more often than not, I wind up walking out. The horrible music–guitars, Protestant style hymns–; the casual attitude–altar servers in sneakers, in some cases secular dress, the priest in a NO ‘potato sack’ rather than a real vestment, the lack of incense, chants; all the lay activity, especially with the choir in front of the church, nuns with big hairdos in skirts…it is really awful. There is nothing Catholic about this. Go to an Orthodox Mass and you will see none of this. What does this tell you? Which Church has remained true to the Early Church? If the EO Church has valid sacraments, what’s the problem? The Catholic Church is currently in the hands of suspect influences (read Malachi Martin), a super force that wants to humanize it and make it even more ‘Protestant friendly.’ The damage has already been done. Thank God for the TLM and the growing trend of traditionalism. This is encouraging. But go to any ordinary Catholic parish and you get horrible stuff: bad secular and Protestant style hymns, hand shaking evangelicalism, tacky altar tables in churches that resemble conference halls–this is a supreme sacrilige. Catholics need to speak up and stop being so apathetic about the destruction of their Church. The attitude, “Oh well, if the bishops think this is okay, then we will go along,” is sinful and shameful. We have witnessed the destruction of the Church. Orthodoxy is to be admired. They have held fast to tradition–do you see Orthodox nuns in skirts and hoop earrings? Do you hear “On Eagles Wings” at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy? Sorry folks, you are being too apologetic and vanilla in your acceptance of the Novus Ordo.

The Eastern Orthodox are not at the moment in union with the Papacy. Perhaps you should look into an Eastern Rite, where you would probably be more comfortable, since they are both Orthodox and in full communion with the True Church.

 

[jonpd]

Some people ask: Why would anyone convert to EO because of the Liturgy?

Pope Benedict has stated that the Liturgy is everything, and that the Church rises or falls because of the Liturgy. That sounds pretty crucial and important to me.

The fact is, I attend the NO Mass and more often than not, I wind up walking out. The horrible music–guitars, Protestant style hymns–; the casual attitude–altar servers in sneakers, in some cases secular dress, the priest in a NO ‘potato sack’ rather than a real vestment, the lack of incense, chants; all the lay activity, especially with the choir in front of the church, nuns with big hairdos in skirts…it is really awful. There is nothing Catholic about this. Go to an Orthodox Mass and you will see none of this. What does this tell you? Which Church has remained true to the Early Church? If the EO Church has valid sacraments, what’s the problem? The Catholic Church is currently in the hands of suspect influences (read Malachi Martin), a super force that wants to humanize it and make it even more ‘Protestant friendly.’ The damage has already been done. Thank God for the TLM and the growing trend of traditionalism. This is encouraging. But go to any ordinary Catholic parish and you get horrible stuff: bad secular and Protestant style hymns, hand shaking evangelicalism, tacky altar tables in churches that resemble conference halls–this is a supreme sacrilige. Catholics need to speak up and stop being so apathetic about the destruction of their Church. The attitude, “Oh well, if the bishops think this is okay, then we will go along,” is sinful and shameful. We have witnessed the destruction of the Church. Orthodoxy is to be admired. They have held fast to tradition–do you see Orthodox nuns in skirts and hoop earrings? Do you hear “On Eagles Wings” at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy? Sorry folks, you are being too apologetic and vanilla in your acceptance of the Novus Ordo.

What you describe seems almost a caricature of the NO Mass. While there may be masses like that out there I haven’t seen one. There are reverent NO masses and perhaps you need to look around and check out other churches in your area.

Personally I have started attending an EF mass in my area and find it very fulfilling. At one time I had thought about EO or Eastern Rite but there are few of those around here (Central Mass.). Plus I do feel strongly about the primacy of the papacy, having been in the Anglican church I have seen what can happen in churches without a strong central authority (not that I expect anything like what is happening in the Episcopal and Anglican churches to happen in the EO)…

 

[Patrick_Eastin]

Please do not resurrect old threads. The original posters may not be around at this time. If the concept is interesting, start a new thread.