Why don't we use the Baltimore Catechism anymore?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seeker1961
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I’m not sure where we disagree, other than I do not believe this is a 40 year problem, it is a forever problem starting in the garden. Starting in the garden, we have blamed everyone but us for the erosion of our relationship with God and each other. As another poster quoted from Paul, we have had sin and the wrangling over sin since the early Church and before. So our spiritual problems really can’t be blamed on dissidents from the 60’s. -I’m not saying there aren’t dissidents,- I’m saying they have always been there, and they have no power but that we allow them to have over us. We are human beings with free will.

And I agree with you 100%, we are called to go forth and evangelize as the Church directs us.
I’m not surprised you don’t understand. I recommend the following:

amazon.com/Noise-Media-saturated-Dominates-Dismantles-Families/dp/1932927948

amazon.com/The-Marketing-Evil-Pseudo-Experts-Corruption/dp/1581824599

Not until the 1950s did most Americans have a TV.

1960 - The Birth Control Pill is approved by the FDA.

1968 - Pope Paul VI has Humanae Vitae published, which causes a reaction that is unprecedented in Church history. Got that? 2,000 years and we get the howling wolves from inside the Church to howl.

The Sex without love Revolution starts. Reject ALL authority.

1969 - Time to start feeding lies to the media about abortion

1973 - The Supreme Court legalizes abortion – not the people. And Homosexuality is removed as a disorder by the American Psychiatric Association from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual due to gay activists.

PHASE THREE starts in the late 1990s. We have something never before seen in human history and it drags humanity down and down, along with human decency, and helps teach disrespect of others. The internet.

Peace,
Ed
 
A proper sense of guilt is necessary. We must be sensitive to sin.
That can be done with a well-formed conscience. Many of our deepest sins are the result of core issues, upbringing, for some folks abuse. Asking them to feel guilty about issues outside their control is going to do more harm than good. We should instead focus on not passing the blame around to others but need to be realistic about who we are. We’re stuck with what we’ve got and it’s up to us to work on it.
Legalism? What’s that? All Church teaching is clear as to what we should and should not do. And if we are confused on any issue or point, we should ask our priest.
Legalism of the type that cause some folks to go to confession with lists of things they did or didn’t do, instead of working on true conversion and healing of the root causes as I mentioned above. That same legalism that can, at best, only lead to superficial observance of the rules with a high degree of recidivism. As opposed to true inner conversion that leads to acceptance of our flaws, healing, and a slow gradual improvement and turning away from sin. You can’t put the cart before the horse.

I heartily recommend reading the 12 steps to humility in a copy of the Rule of St. Benedict accompanied by a good commentary.

Trust me when I say I’ve been there and done that and gone through hell on Earth to learn this. It nearly cost me my marriage and I attribute the fact that ultimately it didn’t, to a miracle from God, the emergence from my “dark night”, and the start of my real conversion. Before that I tried to follow the “rules” too. It works for a while until the true core issues explode to the surface again.

It was quite a meltdown. But I think the result will be much more lasting even though I know I will stumble and fall along the way.
 
I’m not surprised you don’t understand. I recommend the following:

amazon.com/Noise-Media-saturated-Dominates-Dismantles-Families/dp/1932927948

amazon.com/The-Marketing-Evil-Pseudo-Experts-Corruption/dp/1581824599

Not until the 1950s did most Americans have a TV.

1960 - The Birth Control Pill is approved by the FDA.

1968 - Pope Paul VI has Humanae Vitae published, which causes a reaction that is unprecedented in Church history. Got that? 2,000 years and we get the howling wolves from inside the Church to howl.

The Sex without love Revolution starts. Reject ALL authority.

1969 - Time to start feeding lies to the media about abortion

1973 - The Supreme Court legalizes abortion – not the people. And Homosexuality is removed as a disorder by the American Psychiatric Association from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual due to gay activists.

PHASE THREE starts in the late 1990s. We have something never before seen in human history and it drags humanity down and down, along with human decency, and helps teach disrespect of others. The internet.

Peace,
Ed
The subversive ideas are carried by words, not by TV, Internet, whatever, which are just a means of spreading them. Just think back to what happened to Christianity when the printing press was invented.

If depravity is a product of our times, what on Earth happened to the Roman Empire? Why did Saint Paul write what he did about those same depravities in the letter to the Romans?

How did the Russians manage to have a revolution in such a huge country without TV, radio or Internet? The printing press caused Protestantism to spread like wildfire.

TV and Internet just gets the ideas around faster. Without them, they make the rounds sooner or later.

We’re the same folks, with the same lusts, since we partook of the apple in the Garden.
 
The subversive ideas are carried by words, not by TV, Internet, whatever, which are just a means of spreading them. Just think back to what happened to Christianity when the printing press was invented.

If depravity is a product of our times, what on Earth happened to the Roman Empire? Why did Saint Paul write what he did about those same depravities in the letter to the Romans?

How did the Russians manage to have a revolution in such a huge country without TV, radio or Internet? The printing press caused Protestantism to spread like wildfire.

TV and Internet just gets the ideas around faster. Without them, they make the rounds sooner or later.

We’re the same folks, with the same lusts, since we partook of the apple in the Garden.
That line explains nothing to anyone reading this. It’s true but without specifics, it teaches nothing in particular happened. It explains nothing.

We don’t teach young Catholics generalities. They have to live in this world and we can’t explain anything to them by simply pointing to the Garden. Just read the National Catholic Register or listen to Catholic Radio. They bring up all the things I’m bringing up and more.

Read the many posts here from Catholics who honestly, or dishonestly, claim to have no clue as to how to deal with the world.

Explain to any young person, the value of:

Chastity
Modesty
Honoring your Mother and Father
And why our current society is 90 to 100% wrong about the garbage they are feeding us.

No, we know how it started, but the devil is in the business of repackaging evil constantly. He invents new words. He softens the blow of normalizing the goal of same-sex activists with words like diversity and inclusive.

We are all not walking down the same road our parents walked down even 50 years ago. It’s like spending your life in a forest and then finding yourself in the jungle. Different skills are required.

Sorry. But you are missing the point.

Respectfully,
Ed
 
From the early church sin, especially mortal sin, was taken very seriously.
Definitely! No one can argue with this statement.
Now if guilting means encouraging someone to have a healthy respect for God’s holiness and a fear of mortal sin, the early fathers preached this very message. We should feel bad when we commit sin we should hurry to repent.
Guilting is when someone is coerced into faith because they will burn in hell if they don’t. While the statement is true, it is not presented in a fashion that will convince non-believers and even many believers.

In fact, I don’t think guilting would save anyone at all. If you do something just because you fear hell, that doesn’t make any ontological change on your soul. For example you are told, “don’t sleep with a person you are not married to or you will go to hell.” Sure. But not sleeping with someone doesn’t mean you are any less lustful. It is kind of this “hall pass” thing. Would you do something if there is no negative consequence for it? Is sin only when rules are broken? Is heaven a merit system?

I’ve learned what repentance means (the meaning of the word). And it means to change one’s mind. Being sorry for your sins isn’t what is required for forgiveness, but rather resolving never to sin again. And this means doing what is Godly regardless of what the “rules” are.
 
Definitely! No one can argue with this statement.

Guilting is when someone is coerced into faith because they will burn in hell if they don’t. While the statement is true, it is not presented in a fashion that will convince non-believers and even many believers.

In fact, I don’t think guilting would save anyone at all. If you do something just because you fear hell, that doesn’t make any ontological change on your soul. For example you are told, “don’t sleep with a person you are not married to or you will go to hell.” Sure. But not sleeping with someone doesn’t mean you are any less lustful. It is kind of this “hall pass” thing. Would you do something if there is no negative consequence for it? Is sin only when rules are broken? Is heaven a merit system?

I’ve learned what repentance means (the meaning of the word). And it means to change one’s mind. Being sorry for your sins isn’t what is required for forgiveness, but rather resolving never to sin again. And this means doing what is Godly regardless of what the “rules” are.
I don’t disagree with anything you said here.

You know, since I wasn’t raised Catholic, my experience may not be the same.

Does anyone ever teach the reason why certain behaviors merit hell? Do people actually say " Don’t steal or you are going to hell " and leave it at that?
 
From the early church sin, especially mortal sin, was taken very seriously.

Now if guilting means encouraging someone to have a healthy respect for God’s holiness and a fear of mortal sin, the early fathers preached this very message. We should feel bad when we commit sin we should hurry to repent.

Anyway regarding the BC, IMHOI see it as an effective tool to learn the basics of the faith. Along with that should come catechisis using church documents, the CCC and the Bible.
I agree that all Christians should be aware of their own sinfulness–we need to remember every time we see a crucifix that Jesus is there because of our sin.

But TrueLight, surely you’ve seen some of the pathetic and tragic posts on this forum, or talked to people in real life, who are so crippled by guilt that they are convinced that swallowing their own saliva is breaking the Communion fast and constitutes mortal sin.

I feel so terribly sorry for these people.

Many times over the years, I’ve read posts from young men who are convinced that they are going to hell because they get aroused when they look at their own wives, or because they have “wet dreams.”

And how many threads have you read from people who are obviously very very physically ill with flu–high fever, vomiting, racking cough–but they are convinced that if they stay home from Mass, they will commit mortal sin and go to hell? So sad and scary.

Just a few weeks ago, a person wrote asking if they found a bit of food stuck in their teeth, and swallowed it during the Mass before Holy Communion, was that a mortal sin?

It’s so very sad. I’ve known plenty of Catholics over the years who were so paralyzed with guilt that they stopped believing in God entirely because they didn’t want to be so miserable all the time. I know Catholics who decided to just chuck the whole thing, leave the Church, and find some peace of mind.

I think we need a balance when it comes to examining our consciences.
 
I agree that all Christians should be aware of their own sinfulness–we need to remember every time we see a crucifix that Jesus is there because of our sin.

But TrueLight, surely you’ve seen some of the pathetic and tragic posts on this forum, or talked to people in real life, who are so crippled by guilt that they are convinced that swallowing their own saliva is breaking the Communion fast and constitutes mortal sin.

I feel so terribly sorry for these people.

Many times over the years, I’ve read posts from young men who are convinced that they are going to hell because they get aroused when they look at their own wives, or because they have “wet dreams.”

And how many threads have you read from people who are obviously very very physically ill with flu–high fever, vomiting, racking cough–but they are convinced that if they stay home from Mass, they will commit mortal sin and go to hell? So sad and scary.

Just a few weeks ago, a person wrote asking if they found a bit of food stuck in their teeth, and swallowed it during the Mass before Holy Communion, was that a mortal sin?

It’s so very sad. I’ve known plenty of Catholics over the years who were so paralyzed with guilt that they stopped believing in God entirely because they didn’t want to be so miserable all the time. I know Catholics who decided to just chuck the whole thing, leave the Church, and find some peace of mind.

I think we need a balance when it comes to examining our consciences.
I agree there is a lot of scrupulosity, but I’m not so sure it is the fault of something like the Baltimore Catechism which teaches the faith.

IMHO, Catholicism is legalistic in general. There are lots and lots of rules.

For example, when you enter a Church and the blessed sacrament is in the sanctuary, genuflect. If it is someplace else like a side room/sanctuary, then bow to the altar.

There are tons of encyclicals and there is even Canon law!

So it is very easy to become scrupulous.

That doesn’t change the fact that our faith is what it is.
 
Guilting is when someone is coerced into faith because they will burn in hell if they don’t. While the statement is true, it is not presented in a fashion that will convince non-believers and even many believers.

In fact, I don’t think guilting would save anyone at all. If you do something just because you fear hell, that doesn’t make any ontological change on your soul. For example you are told, “don’t sleep with a person you are not married to or you will go to hell.” Sure. But not sleeping with someone doesn’t mean you are any less lustful. It is kind of this “hall pass” thing. Would you do something if there is no negative consequence for it? Is sin only when rules are broken? Is heaven a merit system?

I’ve learned what repentance means (the meaning of the word). And it means to change one’s mind. Being sorry for your sins isn’t what is required for forgiveness, but rather resolving never to sin again. And this means doing what is Godly regardless of what the “rules” are.
I could not disagree with you more. St. Ignatius of Loyola, whose feast day we just celebrated, said that he knew of no sermons more useful and beneficial than those on hell. St. Teresa of Avila would tell her nuns to go down to hell in spirit and thought during life so as to avoid going there in reality after their death. Fear of hell is one of the best motivators there can be. I have a very devout friend who said that her spiritual journey started with the knowledge that she was headed to hell and that fear motivated her to change her life. It’s called imperfect contrition, but fear still works great. We desperately need more sermons about the reality of hell to shake people up and make them see just where their sins are leading them.

I completely disagree that repentance does not included being sorry for your sins. Yes, the word repentance technically means to change one’s mind, but the actual act of repentance involves deep sorrow for your sins. , How can you resolve to change without remorse?

It seems to me that views such as you have expressed have led to the great crisis of faith we have in the church today.
 
Ok, I’ll admit that I haven’t read this WHOLE thread thus far, I have gathered that to use the BC is to be taught “fire and brimstone,” and to not use the BC and believe that our current CCC is to be “fluffy” and “ring-around-the-rosie.” Does that about cover the tone of the convo so far…isn’t there somekind of common ground here?
 
I don’t disagree with anything you said here.

You know, since I wasn’t raised Catholic, my experience may not be the same.
I was raised in a culture where guilting is the norm 😃

I would say yes it did prevent me from doing a lot of wrong things, but it also made me resent my parents, especially my dad. So if the approach to faith is guilting, we may not do sin but the question is, do we love God?
Does anyone ever teach the reason why certain behaviors merit hell? Do people actually say " Don’t steal or you are going to hell " and leave it at that?
Given the facts I have stated above, unfortunately it happens too often. These anti-Catholic and anti-Christians do have a point about guilting. But there was a time not too long ago that it happens more often. Today we’ve gone completely the opposite, we’re too afraid to say anything too negative. There is always this one teaching that stuck a chord with me about how to view morality. It was, in my own experience, the first time someone explained something to me without guilting.
 
I could not disagree with you more. St. Ignatius of Loyola, whose feast day we just celebrated, said that he knew of no sermons more useful and beneficial than those on hell. St. Teresa of Avila would tell her nuns to go down to hell in spirit and thought during life so as to avoid going there in reality after their death. Fear of hell is one of the best motivators there can be. I have a very devout friend who said that her spiritual journey started with the knowledge that she was headed to hell and that fear motivated her to change her life. It’s called imperfect contrition, but fear still works great. We desperately need more sermons about the reality of hell to shake people up and make them see just where their sins are leading them.
There are no greater homilies than the ones from St. John Chrysostom. It is well documented. And you will see it is not about hell, unless of course the passage he is doing a homily on is about hell itself.
I completely disagree that repentance does not included being sorry for your sins. Yes, the word repentance technically means to change one’s mind, but the actual act of repentance involves deep sorrow for your sins. , How can you resolve to change without remorse?
The Greek word in the Bible used for “repent” literally translate to “change one’s mind” or “quickly turn around from one’s path and head in the opposite direction.” Remorse is nothing if you do not change. There are many times I felt guilty of something yet did the sin again later. Where is repentance there. God does not ask for an apology, God asks for a change of heart.
It seems to me that views such as you have expressed have led to the great crisis of faith we have in the church today.
It seems to me that guilting is what led to the crisis in faith today. Because people became resentful of all the guilting.
 
Why can’t it be simply accepted that our current way of doing things (do we even have a way of doing things?) is not working? We can either continue to loll around with this “God loves us, it’s okay” rhetoric, or we can buck up and do something about it. The latter seems, at least to me, to be much more effective, Christian, and truly expressive of God’s love, as opposed to some silly warm feeling, than what we’re doing now.

I am sorry to say it, but in my opinion it is simply amateurish to expect average laypeople to sit down and read encyclical letters and Apostolic Constitutions. It is not going to happen. Let’s get our heads out of the clouds, make a set of nationally approved, concise but engaging catechisms drawing on the CCC for content and the BC for style, one for children, one for teens and one for adults; and make every single parish use them as a basic tool for catechesis. Make them attractive within reason and sell them as cheaply as possible.

Close to the end of a catechetical program, start to offer an “extension” course for those who desire to take it, something that offers a more in depth approach to things. It might be small, but hey, I can’t think of a time in Church history when something similar might not have been.

Additionally, use the church building as a catechism in stone. This terrible nonsense of building expensive parish churches as sparsely as possible–even when a parish has a decent budget!–is simply ridiculous and quite suspect from my point of view. Statues, stained glass, paintings, inlaid floors, etc. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? From a catechetical point of view, it is indispensable. Can every parish do it? Yes, either at once or, as is quite the traditional practice and which is quite convenient, have a perpetually designed church in which it is ornamented over time. Even if it turns out a little kitschy, who cares? It’s the product of the people, let them feel proud of it. If it is clear that it will help the spiritual life of the parish, let them have another statue, another devotional altar, even if there are lots of other ones.

To continue from above, allow and heavily encourage minority groups in parishes to once again have things like ethnically meaningful devotional spaces and side altars dedicated to saints and things. Our Lady of La Vang, for example.

Mainstream Catholicism has lost its cultic, cultural element in America for the most part. This must be fostered once again, even for your “culture-less white people,” as I like to refer to myself. We suburbanite, run-of-the-mill whites, especially in America, often like to think that we have no culture, because in all honesty, we don’t. We have to regain something of that. It can’t be done too quickly, it can’t be done artificially, but it must be done.

This post is a little choppy, sorry. I see everything as essentially interconnected, with the cultic element of the faith being what binds everything together.
 
There are no greater homilies than the ones from St. John Chrysostom. It is well documented. And you will see it is not about hell, unless of course the passage he is doing a homily on is about hell itself.

St. John Chrysostom said: “He who despises Hell or forgets it will not escape it.”

Do you think maybe there is a reason why Christ himself talked more about hell than he did about heaven?
The Greek word in the Bible used for “repent” literally translate to “change one’s mind” or “quickly turn around from one’s path and head in the opposite direction.” Remorse is nothing if you do not change. There are many times I felt guilty of something yet did the sin again later. Where is repentance there. God does not ask for an apology, God asks for a change of heart.
 
St. John Chrysostom said: “He who despises Hell or forgets it will not escape it.”
One line out of several dozen homilies?
Do you think maybe there is a reason why Christ himself talked more about hell than he did about heaven?
Christ talked about how to be a true Christian than about hell. And being a true Christian is about heaven.
So you’re saying that unless we are perfect, our remorse means nothing?
I’m saying that remorse means nothing if we don’t change.
And that we are more likely not to repeat our sins if we don’t have remorse? :confused: I guess you believe that Christ doesn’t accept his own teaching of forgiving seventy times seven, You must also believe that the sacrament of confession doesn’t really mean anything, either.
Tell my why Jesus tells those whom he heals “to go and sin no more.” How many times did He say, “feel sorry for your sins,”? Maybe there is a reason for that 😉

When James and John approached Christ after He had been turned away by a village of Samaritans, they said, ”Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?” But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. ”For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village. (Luke 9:54-56)
Proverbs 24:16 says; “For a just man shall fall seven times and shall rise again.” I, for one, am very grateful that the Bible doesn’t agree with you.
Where is remorse in that?

I think you missed the point. If you fall again, it is not out of lack of remorse, but the process of changing one’s mind is not an overnight thing. There is a difference between feeling sorry and striving to change. Remorse has nothing to do with change. We can be forgiven 77 x 7 times and if we are not trying to change, then it still is for nothing.
Ah, so it is resentment of guilt that causes 95% of all Catholic women to at one time or another use birth control, or that only about 20% of American Catholics attend Mass on a weekly basis, Resentment of guilt is the reason that 45% of Catholics never go to confession and only 12% go even once a year. You’re saying that the reason so many Catholics today turn their backs on church teaching has nothing to do with the fact that people never hear about the true consequences of sin - spending eternity in hell, It’s because they have just been “guilted.” Although I don’t know how Catholics today have been “guilted” when they are no longer told they are guilty. The majority of Catholics today don’t even believe in hell, so how can they be “resentful of all the guilting”?
It will very well so. Not as a direct cause and effect as what you are trying to imply. But because one is aghast at the guilting, they would refuse to listen to the Church. Its not like, “oh, they’re threatening me that I will go to hell. Okay, I’ll take some pills in retaliation.” Reasoning like that is absurd. People sin because they don’t listen to the Church. They do not listen to the Church because they are sick and tired of being guilted.
Let me once again give you that quote from your favorite preacher: “He who despises Hell ***or forgets it ***will not escape it.”
St. John Chrysostom is not a mere preacher. You shouldn’t be quoting people you know nothing about.
 
They do not listen to the Church because they are sick and tired of being guilted.
Or maybe because they don’t want to hear the truth.

John 3:20 “For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved.”

I’m still trying to understand this guilting thing.

As children, my grandmother, when she was alive, used to nag us about cleaning up. Did she get on our nerves? Yes. Was she right? Yes.

The reason that her nagging annoyed us was that we did need to clean up, but did not want to hear it. If she was wrong and our rooms were spotless then we would not have been so annoyed.We would have just shown her how wrong she was as evidenced by our clean rooms.
 
We need penny Catechisms. Every Catholic should have one. The Faith, in 300+ easy snippets.

We also need occasional reminders from the pulpit that Hell exists and that we can go there. A Catholic can decide, of their own free will, to walk away from goodness and become so bad that a) They can’t go to Heaven and b) They don’t want to. In their hearts, they make a choice.

People forget that Jesus is also the Just Judge as well as the King Of Mercy. More preaching about this and we might have less shenanigans at Masses generally. This generation is too pleased with itself.
 
One line out of several dozen homilies?

I am not an expert on St. John Chrysostom and neither, I suspect, are you. I don’t know what he said in the many, many sermons that we have from him. But I do know that’s a pretty important line and one that we ignore at our own eternal peril.
Christ talked about how to be a true Christian than about hell. And being a true Christian is about heaven.
 
I agree there is a lot of scrupulosity, but I’m not so sure it is the fault of something like the Baltimore Catechism which teaches the faith.

IMHO, Catholicism is legalistic in general. There are lots and lots of rules.

For example, when you enter a Church and the blessed sacrament is in the sanctuary, genuflect. If it is someplace else like a side room/sanctuary, then bow to the altar.

There are tons of encyclicals and there is even Canon law!

So it is very easy to become scrupulous.

That doesn’t change the fact that our faith is what it is.
I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it–there are many more rules in evangelical Protestantism, but they are not written down and they are not usually spoken, yet somehow evangelical Protestants in each church/felllowsihp know the "rules"and hold themselves and OTHERS to these rules. This makes the evangelical rules very very difficult to follow, as you aren’t even sure what they are!

Often, evangelical Protestants will run foul of the unwritten, unspoken rules and offend each other. This leads to anger and bitterness, and often, a split in friendships and in churches/fellowships. I believe it’s one of the reasons why evangelical Protestants choose to “church hop”–they can’t quite cotton onto the “rules” of a particular church/fellowship and they feel left out and/or conflicted.

About ten years ago, in a Protestant online forum, I wrote out a list of about 20 evangelical Protestant “rules”. Most people on that forum agreed with me about all those rules.

Within evangelical Protestant churches, if someone “breaks” one of the rules, they are often considered “out of fellowship” or “carnal,” and they may be shunned (the Bible says that we are to have nothing to do with those who continue to practice sin).

For those who have no idea what I’m talking about, I’ll give an example. “No drinking alcohol.”

Now this rule is changing, and the changes are causing conflicts within the evangelical churches. But in most evangelical Protestant churches, at least in the past, it was a rule. In the church that I grew up in, it was actually a WRITTEN rule, which made it easier to follow. The rule was very well-stated–"NO drinking of alchol, and no alcohol-related paraphernalia (e.g., a shot-glass collection), decor (e.g., a drippy wine candle) or apparel (e.g., a Budweiser frogs t-shirt).

But I think that my church was an exception (I’m guessing the rule was written into the church constitution when Germans and a few brave Italians started attend the primarily Swedish church!), and in most evangelical Protestants, the rule about alcohol is not written down. But it’s understood. You would never expect to be offered alcohol in the home of an evangelical Protestant, and you would not see alcohol in the frig, in the cupboard, or in their basement. Maybe…and this is pushing it…in the medicine cabinet in the form of Nyquil, or in the cupboard in the form of vanilla extract, but that’s pretty much it.

Another example of a rule is, “Homeschool, and if you don’t, Christian school. If you send your children to a public school, you must get very involved and present ‘evidence’ that you are making constant attempts to be a witness in that school.”

One more rule is the attendance rules. Evangelicals are supposed to be in the church every time the doors are open. That’s a tough one, and makes Catholicism, with its “one obligation Mass per week” seem very easy!

Been there. Done it. It’s hard. If you know the rules, you’re okie dokie. But heaven help you if you run afoul of these unwritten, unspoken “rules” of evangelical Protestantism.

I don’t find Catholicism full of rules, but rather, “rubrics.” These are different. They guide the liturgy, not people’s hearts. They are written out and fairly clear-cut, except for things like music. Also, we are given bishops to help us follow the rubrics.
 
I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it–there are many more rules in evangelical Protestantism, but they are not written down and they are not usually spoken, yet somehow evangelical Protestants in each church/felllowsihp know the "rules"and hold themselves and OTHERS to these rules. This makes the evangelical rules very very difficult to follow, as you aren’t even sure what they are!

Often, evangelical Protestants will run foul of the unwritten, unspoken rules and offend each other. This leads to anger and bitterness, and often, a split in friendships and in churches/fellowships. I believe it’s one of the reasons why evangelical Protestants choose to “church hop”–they can’t quite cotton onto the “rules” of a particular church/fellowship and they feel left out and/or conflicted.

About ten years ago, in a Protestant online forum, I wrote out a list of about 20 evangelical Protestant “rules”. Most people on that forum agreed with me about all those rules.

Within evangelical Protestant churches, if someone “breaks” one of the rules, they are often considered “out of fellowship” or “carnal,” and they may be shunned (the Bible says that we are to have nothing to do with those who continue to practice sin).

For those who have no idea what I’m talking about, I’ll give an example. “No drinking alcohol.”

Now this rule is changing, and the changes are causing conflicts within the evangelical churches. But in most evangelical Protestant churches, at least in the past, it was a rule. In the church that I grew up in, it was actually a WRITTEN rule, which made it easier to follow. The rule was very well-stated–"NO drinking of alchol, and no alcohol-related paraphernalia (e.g., a shot-glass collection), decor (e.g., a drippy wine candle) or apparel (e.g., a Budweiser frogs t-shirt).

But I think that my church was an exception (I’m guessing the rule was written into the church constitution when Germans and a few brave Italians started attend the primarily Swedish church!), and in most evangelical Protestants, the rule about alcohol is not written down. But it’s understood. You would never expect to be offered alcohol in the home of an evangelical Protestant, and you would not see alcohol in the frig, in the cupboard, or in their basement. Maybe…and this is pushing it…in the medicine cabinet in the form of Nyquil, or in the cupboard in the form of vanilla extract, but that’s pretty much it.

Another example of a rule is, “Homeschool, and if you don’t, Christian school. If you send your children to a public school, you must get very involved and present ‘evidence’ that you are making constant attempts to be a witness in that school.”

One more rule is the attendance rules. Evangelicals are supposed to be in the church every time the doors are open. That’s a tough one, and makes Catholicism, with its “one obligation Mass per week” seem very easy!

Been there. Done it. It’s hard. If you know the rules, you’re okie dokie. But heaven help you if you run afoul of these unwritten, unspoken “rules” of evangelical Protestantism.

I don’t find Catholicism full of rules, but rather, “rubrics.” These are different. They guide the liturgy, not people’s hearts. They are written out and fairly clear-cut, except for things like music. Also, we are given bishops to help us follow the rubrics.
TRUE! I have friends here in FL who are Protestant and have spent their whole lives obeying those rules. No alcohol, no dancing, no secular music, Church at LEAST twice a week (wednesday and Sunday), no card playing, no R rated movies, no cable, no secular books…as little engagement with the secular world as possible. There are a couple of churches down here that are so strict that people have separated themselves from family members who don’t belong to it. Now, is there anything really wrong with giving up alcohol, R rated movies and cable? Of course not, but it should be a choice, not something you do because everyone you go to church with will shun you if you don’t.

We have our rules, and we kid around here about what is “CAF approved” but overall Catholicism really does have fewer rules, written or unwritten than our Evangelical friends.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top