Why don't we use the Baltimore Catechism anymore?

[Oneofthewomen]

One last question - what, if anything, do you do with your copies of the BC? If they are just sitting around your house gathering dust, maybe you could donate them to a church or a group that would appreciate them.

They are part of my large collection of religious books from the 19th & 20th centuries.
One was my great-grandmother’s who was raised in a Catholic orphanage. It’s from 1915.
One was given to my grandmother when she made her first communion in 1934, one was my mother’s from the 1950’s and one is my husbands, and the one he used in grammar school in the early 1970’s.

And talk about “snide” comments, just because I find that the BC does not work for me as a learning tool, does not mean that I think it is pointless. They are not gathering dust, actually they are lovingly cared for and I have even spent a small fortune to have the oldest one re-bound.

 

[TrueLight]

You know, I never really ever looked at the Baltimore Catechism.

-Tim-

It’s funny. I never looked at it in great detail either before this thread. When I received instruction, I learned from books based on the BC and the Catechism of Trent, but I never actually looked at it chapter by chapter.

Now I’m really convinced that it is an awesome tool and I really believe it would be helpful if every Catholic studied this from childhood. That is not to say other tools cannot or should not be used. They certainly should, but this is like anatomy and physiology to a Health Sciences student.

 

[maryjk]

How do you make the assessment that your mother did not know her faith?

It wasn’t my assessment. It was hers.

 

[Brooklyn]

They are part of my large collection of religious books from the 19th & 20th centuries.
One was my great-grandmother’s who was raised in a Catholic orphanage. It’s from 1915.
One was given to my grandmother when she made her first communion in 1934, one was my mother’s from the 1950’s and one is my husbands, and the one he used in grammar school in the early 1970’s.

And talk about “snide” comments, just because I find that the BC does not work for me as a learning tool, does not mean that I think it is pointless. They are not gathering dust, actually they are lovingly cared for and I have even spent a small fortune to have the oldest one re-bound.

I asked that question with all sincerity, since you said you have no use for the BC.

 

[Brooklyn]

It wasn’t my assessment. It was hers.

What did she say? I really am curious as to how she could know the BC and yet say she didn’t know the teachings of the Church.

 

[maryjk]

What did she say? I really am curious as to how she could know the BC and yet say she didn’t know the teachings of the Church.

Really? You don’t believe her?

I really can’t ask her, she died last year.

But she used to say, I can quote the Baltimore Catechism but I really don’t know it. Maybe she wasn’t someone that learned from memorizing. Maybe she had deeper questions. I don’t know.

It isn’t my place to question her. Nor is it yours.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I asked that question with all sincerity, since you said you have no use for the BC.

No, I did not say that I have “no use for it”. I said that it has had no place in my life-
big difference!!

As I said, I am not the enemy here. I think the BC can be a good tool, in the right circumstances, but it is not the only tool out there!

 

[Brooklyn]

Really? You don’t believe her?

I really can’t ask her, she died last year.

But she used to say, I can quote the Baltimore Catechism but I really don’t know it. Maybe she wasn’t someone that learned from memorizing. Maybe she had deeper questions. I don’t know.

It isn’t my place to question her. Nor is it yours.

I am very sorry for your loss.

I merely wanted to understand how she could know all the answers to the BC and not know the teachings of the Church. It just doesn’t make sense to me. It seems you don’t know the answer to that question, either. In your prior posts you seemed to understand it, so I thought you could explain it. But I guess the answer will have to remain moot.

 

[Brooklyn]

No, I did not say that I have “no use for it”. I said that it has had no place in my life-
big difference!!

As I said, I am not the enemy here. I think the BC can be a good tool, in the right circumstances, but it is not the only tool out there!

I think we better stop here. That’s not quite what you said before, but we’ll leave it there. Have a nice day.

 

[Melchior_1]

I am very sorry for your loss.

I merely wanted to understand how she could know all the answers to the BC and not know the teachings of the Church. It just doesn’t make sense to me. It seems you don’t know the answer to that question, either. In your prior posts you seemed to understand it, so I thought you could explain it. But I guess the answer will have to remain moot.

Brooklyn, perhaps this is like how there’s a difference between hearing what one is saying, and listening to what one is saying.

 

[maryjk]

I am very sorry for your loss.

I merely wanted to understand how she could know all the answers to the BC and not know the teachings of the Church. It just doesn’t make sense to me. It seems you don’t know the answer to that question, either. In your prior posts you seemed to understand it, so I thought you could explain it. But I guess the answer will have to remain moot.

I understand that she didn’t seem to know how to apply the teachings of the Church. And that we talked a great deal about living life as a Catholic. And although she understood the meat and potatoes of the Church, she was unaware of the side dishes. Like you fast before receiving Communion. But as a caregiver, I could receive even though I had just had lunch.

She could quote, and did so for me, the BC. Whether she knew “all of the answers” of the BC, I don’t know. As I have said, there are 4 books that comprise the BC. Most people don’t ever get to the 4th book.

What more is there to know??

 

[Dominique1234]

For many who have experienced great and profound suffering, you dont feel God’s love and mercy.

You feel utterly abandoned, the deepest pit of nothingness. A black black void devoid of anything.

It’s dark. It’s profound. It can last for days, weeks, months, years, or in my case, decades.

Decades when there was no consolation, no relief, no nothing. Just pain. Just suffering…

Is all of that distinct from the pains of Hell? Perhaps. But since I have never experienced the afterlife yet, it’s the closest thing I have to compare it too.

I suggest you read “Dark Night of the Soul” by St. John of the Cross. It explains well what you are pointing out as “hell on earth” which he explains what it truly is. And it’s from a Doctor of the Church. It’s probably your best source for this topic. God bless, and I hope it helps.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I think we better stop here. That’s not quite what you said before, but we’ll leave it there. Have a nice day.

I am going to try one more time, then I am done. You are not really reading what I wrote. I have posted my quote below, I guess I could see how one could “read into” what I wrote to make it mean what you say it does, but that still does not mean that is what I meant.

The BC was not used any longer when I was a youngster, so it had no place in my formation process. I left the church at 18 and came back at 35. As a 35 y.o., the BC was not what I needed for catechesis. I did not want to hear- “do this, don’t do that”, I wanted real theology. I wanted to ask questions and understand things on a much deeper level and, for me, the BC does not do that, it was not meant to.

No where have I said that I do not think it can be somewhat useful. My only issue is with all those who think that the lack of use of the BC is the root of all the problems in the Church.

I myself am a revert, after being gone for nearly 20 years. The BC had no place in my life before I left, and I do not find it usefull now, but if someone does, that is fine.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Brooklyn, perhaps this is like how there’s a difference between hearing what one is saying, and listening to what one is saying.

I so wish we had a “like” button!!

 

[Dominique1234]

I sure as hell do in Quebec. My grade 4 teacher was particarly nasty. She would hit if we forgot a punctuation mark during dictation. Same with the catechism responses. I am sorry but I don’t see that as a solution to school discipline issues and even much less as a technique to teach us about a loving God.

Please refrain from using the H word on a Catholic website. You do realize it’s a sin? You may as well have said, “Hostie, Calice, Tabernacle”… You can sin in your mind or heart all you want, but please don’t do it here. What kind of example are you setting for others?

Matthew 18:6"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

God bless

Dom

 

[RobbyS]

In my opinion, the Baltimore Catechism taught students how to memorize, but not how to apply what they had learned.

I used the Baltimore C. until high school. The good nuns rarely discussed the hows and whys of Church teaching. I memorized the book, but didn’t know what it meant to live as a Catholic. I just knew the facts.

And today’s young Catholics don’t know the facts. The real problem was the wooly worded texts that replaced the Catechism. reminding me of the Aldous Huxley storey about the young Spanish fisherman. Huxley met him on the beach and observed how bright the boy was. Huxley would encounter the boy from time to time as he walked on the beach, and they fell into long conversation. Huxley admired the quickness of the boy’s mind. At times they would talk about religion. Though the boy knew only watch he had learned from his catechism, Huxley was none-plused by how hard pressed he would be by the boy’s arguments. Any bright lad who memorized the Baltimore Catechism was like a boy who memorized the multiplication tables and algorithms taught in elementary schools. And what becomes part of a man’s memory becomes part of him. There is nothing vague about the Catholic faith, and the contents of the Catechism are a distillation of two thousand years of theology.

 

[Brooklyn]

And today’s young Catholics don’t know the facts. The real problem was the wooly worded texts that replaced the Catechism. reminding me of the Aldous Huxley storey about the young Spanish fisherman. Huxley met him on the beach and observed how bright the boy was. Huxley would encounter the boy from time to time as he walked on the beach, and they fell into long conversation. Huxley admired the quickness of the boy’s mind. At times they would talk about religion. Though the boy knew only watch he had learned from his catechism, Huxley was none-plused by how hard pressed he would be by the boy’s arguments. Any bright lad who memorized the Baltimore Catechism was like a boy who memorized the multiplication tables and algorithms taught in elementary schools. And what becomes part of a man’s memory becomes part of him. There is nothing vague about the Catholic faith, and the contents of the Catechism are a distillation of two thousand years of theology.

Where have you been this entire thread? We needed you long before this. Thank you so much for this post. I am so tired of hearing that the BC is not for our time and that we need to move on. To me, that’s like saying Church teaching is not for our time. And the result is millions of lost souls, quite literally.

“What becomes part of a man’s memory becomes part of him.” That is the whole crux of the issue. The most important thing in this world, as Catholics, is our religion, because that is the only thing we are going to take into eternity. If we haven’t made it part of us, if we do not completely reflect in our lives the teachings of Christ and His Church, we are not going to be with Christ in eternity. And the best way to make our beliefs who we are is to incorporate them into our mind. Catechesis is essential in every Christian Catholic life. As I posted earlier, even the new Catechism strongly suggests that we memorize the summaries of each section. The Prologue, Section V, Paragraph 21: “At the end of each thematic unit, a series of brief texts sum up the essentials of that unit’s teaching in condensed formulae. ** These IN BRIEF summaries may suggest to local catechists brief summary**** formulae that could be memorized**”

Thank you for stating what so sorely needed to be said in this thread.

For all those who have their individual arguments with me, which seems like just about everyone here, I’m done with them. You know where I stand and I know where you stand, and there is nothing more to be said.

 

[teenphilo1]

And today’s young Catholics don’t know the facts. The real problem was the wooly worded texts that replaced the Catechism. reminding me of the Aldous Huxley storey about the young Spanish fisherman. Huxley met him on the beach and observed how bright the boy was. Huxley would encounter the boy from time to time as he walked on the beach, and they fell into long conversation. Huxley admired the quickness of the boy’s mind. At times they would talk about religion. Though the boy knew only watch he had learned from his catechism, Huxley was none-plused by how hard pressed he would be by the boy’s arguments. Any bright lad who memorized the Baltimore Catechism was like a boy who memorized the multiplication tables and algorithms taught in elementary schools. And what becomes part of a man’s memory becomes part of him. There is nothing vague about the Catholic faith, and the contents of the Catechism are a distillation of two thousand years of theology.

Agreed!
I have read the BC and it was really informative. So many Catholic teens don’t live the faith because they don’t know the reasoning- they only see the restrictions. I used to not understand why the Church disliked same-sex marriage, why women can’t be priests, why sexual impurity was wrong, why we had to go to mass, why so much emphasis was placed on the Holy Eucharist, why contraception was wrong, why priests can’t marry, on and on and on and on… I disagreed with a lot of it, too. However, within 4 months of “reading up” (BC and this site included) I now understand the reasoning for all of these teachings.

That being said, one must know how to be a Catholic to act like one.

 

[OraLabora]

Agreed!
I have read the BC and it was really informative. So many Catholic teens don’t live the faith because they don’t know the reasoning- they only see the restrictions. I used to not understand why the Church disliked same-sex marriage, why women can’t be priests, why sexual impurity was wrong, why we had to go to mass, why so much emphasis was placed on the Holy Eucharist, why contraception was wrong, why priests can’t marry, on and on and on and on… I disagreed with a lot of it, too. However, within 4 months of “reading up” (BC and this site included) I now understand the reasoning for all of these teachings.

That being said, one must know how to be a Catholic to act like one.

I can’t say I got any of the reasoning from the old catechism… and I looked at the parts on sexuality and chastity in the BC this week and saw nothing in the way of explanations (nor even a definition of “adultery” and “chastity”).

I agree that when one learns about those things it all makes perfect sense. but I certainly didn’t learn anything I could understand (at elementary school age) about those subjects from the old catechism. When I read it today in light of knowing what adultery and chastity means, I certainly know what I’m supposed or not supposed to do from the BC, but there’s no explanation of why.

Maybe it’s just me but without an explanation I feel I’m being taken for an idiot and that turns me off. What did help me understand it was a good understanding of Natural Law.

 

[Carolus_Martell]

Why don’t we use the Baltimore Catechism anymore?

Because the properly schooled faithful would start questioning the actions of their Bishops and Cardinals…

…that just want to get along and be friends with all the baal/ashtoreth worshipers and the abominations they force on us by legal fiat. After all we just want to be friends.