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drbible1611
Guest
Did I say that?You mean we didn’t have a single true Bible believing Christian until 1611?
Why don't you think it's not obvious to Protestants that their bible is not the bible that contains the fullness of the inspired written Word of God?
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drbible1611
Guest
Just read the passages-it’s as simple as that-no interpretation needed.
Really, I thought the Catholic Church taught quite clearly that if you knowingly deny the church is necessary for salvation then you are hell bound. Read Council of Florence!
One of your brethren on this thread already agreed that my parish priest was correct in stating that ALL Protestants are Hell bound.
PS Don’t have such a hang up on Luther. I don’t follow a maonly Jesus Christ!
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drbible1611
Guest
You demand do you? Evidently I have ruffled some feathers?
You are demanding Biblical quotations. How come? Doesn’t the Church rely on Tradition and the Magisterium as well?
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Really?
What about all the people who spoke English before 1611? They did have Bibles, before. . .they even had Bibles that were written in English. . .
Why did God wait so long (Chaucer wrote in the 1300s–good old Middle English-)?
And why did He wait for ENGLISH people to preserve a Bible?
Which Bible did God inspire and preserve for the non-English speaking folk, anyway?
And finally, where in the Bible do we find a list of books which are **to be included **in the Bible, the verse that says that the Bible is the only or ultimate authority, and **to whom **authority is given to **authentically interpret **the Bible?
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drbible1611
Guest
Amen.
Why don’t you come to downtown Sydney, Australia and settle the issue of the OT canon like a real man
The thread was about the ‘missing books’ from the ‘protestant’ Bible.
I have given you historical facts and Biblical facts that confirm the apocrypha is not part of the OT canon.
Address the issue!
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drbible1611
Guest
Teflon93,
We believe the Bible.
**Ha, ha , ha…
No you believe tradition and what the Catholic Church tells you to believe!
If you believed the Bible you would get saved and start preaching the gospel to a world that is on it’s way to Hell.**
We believe the Bible.
**Ha, ha , ha…
No you believe tradition and what the Catholic Church tells you to believe!
If you believed the Bible you would get saved and start preaching the gospel to a world that is on it’s way to Hell.**
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MarcoPolo
Guest
Yes you did.
M
MarcoPolo
Guest
Oh, marvelous. Please tell us more about what we believe. Come back tomorrow. I’ll tell you all about what YOU believe…
M
MarcoPolo
Guest
Super. Tell me about these, perhaps a link. By whose authority were these canons defined?
M
mini_me640
Guest
Questions About the KJV:
Which KJV is inspired, since it was revised four times, the last being in 1769?
Did you know that the Textus Receptus, from which the KJV was translated, was based on half a dozen small manuscripts, none earlier than the 10th century?
If the KJV is error free in the English, then why did they fail to correctly distinguish between “Devil and Demons” (Mt 4:1-DIABOLOS and Jn 13:2-DAIMONIZOMAI) ; “hades and hell” (see Lk 16:23-HADES and Mt 5:22-GEENNA; Note: Hades is distinct from hell because hades is thrown into hell after judgement: Rev 20:14) ?
Did Jesus teach a way for men to be “worshiped” according to Luke 14:10 in the KJV, contradicting the first commandment and what He said in Luke 4: 8? [Remember — you may not go the Greek for any “light” if you are a KJV-Onlyite!]
Which KJV is inspired, since it was revised four times, the last being in 1769?
Did you know that the Textus Receptus, from which the KJV was translated, was based on half a dozen small manuscripts, none earlier than the 10th century?
If the KJV is error free in the English, then why did they fail to correctly distinguish between “Devil and Demons” (Mt 4:1-DIABOLOS and Jn 13:2-DAIMONIZOMAI) ; “hades and hell” (see Lk 16:23-HADES and Mt 5:22-GEENNA; Note: Hades is distinct from hell because hades is thrown into hell after judgement: Rev 20:14) ?
Did Jesus teach a way for men to be “worshiped” according to Luke 14:10 in the KJV, contradicting the first commandment and what He said in Luke 4: 8? [Remember — you may not go the Greek for any “light” if you are a KJV-Onlyite!]
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drbible1611
Guest
Boy Oh boy where do you get your information from?Really?
What about all the people who spoke English before 1611? They did have Bibles, before. . .they even had Bibles that were written in English. . .
Why did God wait so long (Chaucer wrote in the 1300s–good old Middle English-)?
And why did He wait for ENGLISH people to preserve a Bible?
Which Bible did God inspire and preserve for the non-English speaking folk, anyway?
And finally, where in the Bible do we find a list of books which are **to be included **in the Bible, the verse that says that the Bible is the only or ultimate authority, and **to whom **authority is given to **authentically interpret **the Bible?
I didn’t deny people had the Bible before 1611!
I gave you the Scripture verses for the OT canon, but if you are not willing to read them, then I’m afraid I can’t help you.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Excuse me…I hate to butt in here, but you seem to have sailed right past my post #39.
Perhaps you might address those issues. :tiphat:
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
New Testament References to Deuterocanonical Books
Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Sirach 28:2
Forgive your neighbor’s injustice; then when you pray, your own sins will be forgiven.
+++
Luke 6:31
31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
Tobit 4:15
Do to no one what you yourself dislike. Do not drink wine till you become drunk, nor let drunkenness accompany you on your way.
+++
Matthew 27:41-43
41In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 “He saved others,” they said, "but he can’t save himself! He’s the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’ "
Wisdom 2:15-18
15 Because his life is not like other men’s, and different are his ways. 16 He judges us debased; he holds aloof from our paths as from things impure. He calls blest the destiny of the just and boasts that God is his Father. 17 Let us see whether his words be true; let us find out what will happen to him. 18 For if the just one be the son of God, he will defend him and deliver him from the hand of his foes. 19 With revilement and torture let us put him to the test that we may have proof of his gentleness and try his patience. 20 Let us condemn him to a shameful death; for according to his own words, God will take care of him." 21 These were their thoughts, but they erred; for their wickedness blinded them, 22 And they knew not the hidden counsels of God; neither did they count on a recompense of holiness nor discern the innocent souls’ reward.
+++
Luke 14:13
13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,
Tobit 4:7
"Give alms from your possessions. Do not turn your face away from any of the poor, and God’s face will not be turned away from you.
+++
John 10:22
22 Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter,
1 Maccabees 4:59
Then Judas and his brothers and the entire congregation of Israel decreed that the days of the dedication of the altar should be observed with joy and gladness on the anniversary every year for eight days, from the twenty-fifth day of the month Chislev.
+++
Romans 9:20
20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ "
Wisdom 12:12
12 For who can say to you, “What have you done?” or who can oppose your decree? Or when peoples perish, who can challenge you, their maker; or who can come into your presence as vindicator of unjust men?
+++
Romans 9:21
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
Wisdom 15:7
For truly the potter, laboriously working the soft earth, molds for our service each several article: Both the vessels that serve for clean purposes and their opposites, all alike; As to what shall be the use of each vessel of either class the worker in clay is the judge.
+++
Romans 9:22
22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?
Wisdom 12:20
20 For these were enemies of your servants, doomed to death; yet, while you punished them with such solicitude and pleading, granting time and opportunity to abandon wickedness,
+++
Romans 11:34
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?”
Wisdom 9:13
For what man knows God’s counsel, or who can conceive what our LORD intends?
+++
2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Sirach 35:9
Give to the Most High as he has given to you, generously, according to your means.
+++
Hebrews 1:3
3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
Wisdom 7:26
For she is the refulgence of eternal light, the spotless mirror of the power of God, the image of his goodness.
+++
Hebrews 11:35
35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
2 Maccabees 7:7
Do not be afraid of this executioner, but be worthy of your brothers and accept death, so that in the time of mercy I may receive you again with them."
Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Sirach 28:2
Forgive your neighbor’s injustice; then when you pray, your own sins will be forgiven.
+++
Luke 6:31
31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
Tobit 4:15
Do to no one what you yourself dislike. Do not drink wine till you become drunk, nor let drunkenness accompany you on your way.
+++
Matthew 27:41-43
41In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 “He saved others,” they said, "but he can’t save himself! He’s the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’ "
Wisdom 2:15-18
15 Because his life is not like other men’s, and different are his ways. 16 He judges us debased; he holds aloof from our paths as from things impure. He calls blest the destiny of the just and boasts that God is his Father. 17 Let us see whether his words be true; let us find out what will happen to him. 18 For if the just one be the son of God, he will defend him and deliver him from the hand of his foes. 19 With revilement and torture let us put him to the test that we may have proof of his gentleness and try his patience. 20 Let us condemn him to a shameful death; for according to his own words, God will take care of him." 21 These were their thoughts, but they erred; for their wickedness blinded them, 22 And they knew not the hidden counsels of God; neither did they count on a recompense of holiness nor discern the innocent souls’ reward.
+++
Luke 14:13
13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,
Tobit 4:7
"Give alms from your possessions. Do not turn your face away from any of the poor, and God’s face will not be turned away from you.
+++
John 10:22
22 Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter,
1 Maccabees 4:59
Then Judas and his brothers and the entire congregation of Israel decreed that the days of the dedication of the altar should be observed with joy and gladness on the anniversary every year for eight days, from the twenty-fifth day of the month Chislev.
+++
Romans 9:20
20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ "
Wisdom 12:12
12 For who can say to you, “What have you done?” or who can oppose your decree? Or when peoples perish, who can challenge you, their maker; or who can come into your presence as vindicator of unjust men?
+++
Romans 9:21
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
Wisdom 15:7
For truly the potter, laboriously working the soft earth, molds for our service each several article: Both the vessels that serve for clean purposes and their opposites, all alike; As to what shall be the use of each vessel of either class the worker in clay is the judge.
+++
Romans 9:22
22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?
Wisdom 12:20
20 For these were enemies of your servants, doomed to death; yet, while you punished them with such solicitude and pleading, granting time and opportunity to abandon wickedness,
+++
Romans 11:34
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?”
Wisdom 9:13
For what man knows God’s counsel, or who can conceive what our LORD intends?
+++
2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Sirach 35:9
Give to the Most High as he has given to you, generously, according to your means.
+++
Hebrews 1:3
3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
Wisdom 7:26
For she is the refulgence of eternal light, the spotless mirror of the power of God, the image of his goodness.
+++
Hebrews 11:35
35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
2 Maccabees 7:7
Do not be afraid of this executioner, but be worthy of your brothers and accept death, so that in the time of mercy I may receive you again with them."
M
MarcoPolo
Guest
I second this. Those passages do not say what drbible says they do. Perhaps he will provide a sound exegesis.
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GreenLantern
Guest
Don’t your beliefs rely exclusivly on the Bible even though the Bible never says to do so?
Why are you dodging the question?
G
GreenLantern
Guest
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drbible1611
Guest
Let’s face it-the Catholic Church has been caught with it’s pants down with regards to the OT canon as I have proved from the words of Jesus Christ and historical fact (go to your local synagogue and have a look at the Hebrew Scriptures).
The Catholic Church NEVER gave us the Bible, but hid it as history clearly proves.
If it wasn’t for the English Reformer’s you Catholic ‘Bible Believer’s’ would be still be having your priests reading from the LATIN VULGATE an ‘unknown’ tongue.
Not one of you has been able to disprove THE FACTS I have given you!
The Catholic Church NEVER gave us the Bible, but hid it as history clearly proves.
If it wasn’t for the English Reformer’s you Catholic ‘Bible Believer’s’ would be still be having your priests reading from the LATIN VULGATE an ‘unknown’ tongue.
Not one of you has been able to disprove THE FACTS I have given you!
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Post 39.
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
Jesus often quoted from the Septuagint, which contains all the same books as the Catholic OT. He even quoted verses from a few of the deuterocanonical books. If you’d rather side with the Jews today who reject Jesus as the Messiah, more power to ya. I think I’ll stick with the Bible Jesus read, unedited.
History says otherwise, actually. The Catholic Church preserved all the manuscripts, even your beloved Textus Receptus was the result of Catholic monks spending their days copying manuscripts.
Do you know what “Vulgate” means? American Heritage Dictionary:vul·gate (vŭl’gāt’, -gĭt) Pronunciation Key
n.
- The common speech of a people; the vernacular.
Facts? I’m seeing a lot of unsupported, uncited propaganda, but no facts.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Are you suggesting that we as Christians should rely on the authority of a Jewish council held a century AFTER the death, resurrection and ascension of our Lord as to what the CHRISTIAN Bible should contain? They had ALREADY rejected the Messiah…and the authority that had been vested in them by God had been stripped from them and given to the Church. Yet you expect us to look to them to tell us what is God-breathed scripture?
You’re joking, right?
anyone familiar with the history of the Catholic Church, which for 2,000 years has been preserving and protecting the Word of God, recognizes how ludicrous this is. It was is only by the authority of the Catholic Church, which collected the various books of Scripture in the fourth century, that we have a Christian Bible at all. And it is only because of the Church that the Bible survived and was taught for the many centuries before the printing press made it widely available. All Christians everywhere owe it a great debt for that.
Baloney. It is a fact usually ignored by Protestant historians that many English versions of the Scriptures existed before Wycliff, and these were authorized and perfectly legal (see Where We Got the Bible by Henry Graham, chapter 11, “Vernacular Scriptures Before Wycliff”). Also legal would be any future authorized translations. And certainly reading these translations was not only legal but also encouraged. All this law did was to prevent any private individual from publishing his own translation of Scripture without the approval of the Church.
I haven’t seen any “facts”…only assertions.
- Status