V
Valke2
Guest
I think your failue to undestand what was written shouldn’t be an indictment of the cite. It put Elohim in parens to show that it was the original word that was translated by the KJV.
- Status
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**No Worrior Angel, God was telling the truth, but not the truth that you wish He told. Here is what you have missed: “Now, listen to the words of the Lord: Should there be a prophet among you, in visions will I reveal myself to him, in dreams will I speak to him.” (Num. 12:6) Then, if you go to Genesis 15:1, you will see that, “The Lord came to Abraham in a vision.”
I am preparing a thread on the truth about visions and dreams. You will understand, I hope, how everything is possible in a vision or dream, even to see God and to remain alive. Sometimes, a vision or dream seems so real to the visionary or dreamer that he or she wonders that death is imminent for having seen God, as it happened to Isaiah, when he said, “Woe is me , I am doomed! For I am a man of unclean lips, living among a people of unclean lips; yet my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.” Isaiah had seen God in a vision.[Isa. 6:5)
Ben:
****
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**Which reminds me to let you know of something that will startle you to scandal: That the whole Genesis account of Creation is an allegory. But take it easy by now until you see my thread about the double allegory of Creation.
I don’t know if you have ever read, that all ancient peoples had their own account about the creation of the world and origin of Mankind. Then, the Hebrews also built one, and it was recorded in the book of Genesis. Then, you will understand how Adam and Eve learned to speak, having no human parents.
Ben:
**
M
MEgus
Guest
I guess from your inference in your post that you have never had the Holy Ghost teach you when you read the scriptures.
Do you even read the scriptures?
I read every day. I have had many instances when I read where the Holy Ghost has taught me the meaning of the scripture I have just read and I had never considered it before in the way I was taught. And when the Holy Ghost teaches, there is no question about it from that time on.
MEgus
1 Cor. 2:9-14
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
**No Lapell, Elohai in Hebrew means Elohim shelanu, which in English renders Elohim our God. The “im” in Elohim is an exception that means NO plurality.
Ben:
**
M
MEgus
Guest
Ben, he may not teach you anything, but I can testify that God teaches me each and every day. I have been instructed of the Holy Ghost on many occasions. If he does not teach you, it’s because you do not ask. Oh, and the scripture you quote, that would be the Lord’s Temple in the top of the Mountains in Salt Lake. Established in these last days. You know, the one that all nations are flowing unto? Oh, and a hint, the Jews are not the only members of the House of Israel, there are 11 other tribes as well. Remember them?**MEgus, you have forgotten a small detail on this matter: We are the tools in the “hands” of God. Whatever you are seeking in terms of the Truth, you are going to learn it from man. So, excuse me to tell you to stop the cop-out, because God will never teach anything directly to you. He is not that anthropomorphic. What does the Prophet Isaiah say in 2:2,3? That if you need instruction in the Word of God, the address is Zion, the Jewish People. So, stop letting pride speak louder than commonsense and open your heart to what is free to flow to you from Zion.
Ben:
Isaiah 2:2-3
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
MEgus
M
MEgus
Guest
Your right. It does boil down to who has authority. You have a single scripture that comes as a book that was translated from another book written in a different language and a hope that it was translated correctly.
We have a personal visit by the Father and the Son, also by Peter, James, and John. And many of the other prophets of the scriptures. We have a whole new book of scripture that is another witness that Jesus is the Christ and it agrees fully with the Bible. We have a church with Apostles and Prophets. We have those things discussed in the scriptures that others do not.
Now, you can decide for yourself, but for me, I know, nothing doubting which it is that has the keys of the kingdom of God and the Priesthood of God on the earth today.
MEgus
M
MEgus
Guest
What makes you think they didn’t? Have you not read the scriptures? What does Adam say when God gives him Eve to be his Wife?
And remember, this quote from Adam is BEFORE he partakes of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of Good and evil, so he can not be talking of things to come, only things he has experienced in the past.
MEgus
M
MEgus
Guest
Exactly, they are one in the same way that all of us are one when we come come to the same knowledge and belief as they do. Now, I don’t see any of us turning into a trinity or anything else. I am still me, and you are still you, but we can be one with them in the same way they are one with each other.
Oh, and one other thing, it also says we can share in the same glory. Does that mean deification? If you will look, your Church taught that once upon a time. And the scriptures still do.
MEgus
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
S
swariffin
Guest
No wonder you have so many quarrels with the Arab. They believe that the true uncorrupted word of God has been given to Muhammad only.MEgus;4955850:
and to no other people on earth. That’s how God teaches us. And according to Isaiah 42:6, Israel was given as light unto the nations. That’s the light God has taught us and assigned us with the mission to teach the nations, including Mormons, no matter how proud they are to learn from Jews.
Ben:
A
agangbern
Guest
By whose or by what authority did they say that copy they had was the original?
A
agangbern
Guest
So, you must have mastered the scriptures by now. Then let me ask you: Where is it written in the scriptures that the scripture can save man? And how did you know that it was the Holy Spirit and not Satan that taught you when you read? And you mean to say that the Holy Spirit is a person who can teach? Finally, does man acquire faith through reading? Please support your answer with corresponding links when necessary.
A
agangbern
Guest
As you must have noticed, I did not mention trinity or even hinted about it yet when I quoted Jesus saying ***"we are one: I in them and you in me. ***That quotation simply confirms the reality of the unique oneness of God the Father and Jesus Christ.
It is obvious that the glory that Jesus mentioned is not deification. For if it were, then Jesus should not have said, “that they may be one as we are one”, instead he should have said, “that they may be one among us (divine persons)”.
The Church taught that once upon a time? Where is your link to it?
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
Ben Masada;4955953:
**If you have any other way to interpret Psalm 147:19,20, I am all ears.
I am not making up anything. The Psalmist wrote that down. And if you believe the Psalmist was inspired by God to write that down, even better.
Ben:
A
agangbern
Guest
A
agangbern
Guest
What single scripture are you referring to? No, the Church does not claim to have a single scripture.
How did you become sure that it was the Father and the Son who visited you and not Satan and his companion?
Since you believe in Peter, therefore you have a duty to believe him when he said,
*15 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,
16 speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that **the ignorant and unstable distort **to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures. *usccb.org/nab/bible/2peter/2peter3.htm
B
Ben_Masada
Guest
Ben Masada;4955953:
" is not there! Let us read that again, “19 He showeth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.”
bartleby.com/108/19/147.html
**Have you noticed how cunny you are? No offense meant. But after you said that the word “only” is not there, you said, “Let us read that again.” You started reading, but when you realized that the word “only” is implied, you decided to stop the reading halfway. That’s playing roulette in the hope that I either overlook the case or perchance don’t know the Scriptures. Yes, let us read that again.
Psalm 147 verse 19: “He (God) showeth His Word unto Jacob, His statutes and his ordinances unto Israel.” Verse 20: “He (God) hath not dealt so with any nation; and as for His ordinances, they (the Gentiles) have not known them. Praise ye the Lord.”
How is it that God did not deal with any nation with reference to His Word but with Israel ONLY? Don’t tell me that your pride won’t allow you to see that far. But that’s okay Agangbern, at least you have the guts to argue with one of those whom God entrusted His Word to.
Ben:**
A
agangbern
Guest
My point is clear. The word “only” is not there, and more so it does not follow the word “Israel”. When you say it is implied there, that is more of an imagination. The fact remains that it is not there. But even if your wish should be granted, have you not read what happened to Israel according to the passages I presented in post#193? Would you just ignore what subsequently happened to Israel? Just be sure you are not cunnier than I.**Have you noticed how cunny you are? No offense meant. But after you said that the word “only” is not there, you said, “Let us read that again.” You started reading, but when you realized that the word “only” is implied, you decided to stop the reading halfway. That’s playing roulette in the hope that I either overlook the case or perchance don’t know the Scriptures. Yes, let us read that again.
Psalm 147 verse 19: “He (God) showeth His Word unto Jacob, His statutes and his ordinances unto Israel.” Verse 20: “He (God) hath not dealt so with any nation; and as for His ordinances, they (the Gentiles) have not known them. Praise ye the Lord.”
How is it that God did not deal with any nation with reference to His Word but with Israel ONLY? Don’t tell me that your pride won’t allow you to see that far. But that’s okay Agangbern, at least you have the guts to argue with one of those whom God entrusted His Word to.
Ben:
L
Lapell
Guest
I agree that in Greek mythology there is a lot of interference between gods; same in Roman mythology, which comes for the most part from the Greek one, it’s very much the same.The Unity of God is demonstrated as follows: Two Gods would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other. The two Beings would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be god. Both God’s would move to action by will; the will, being without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in two separate beings.
Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of a second God is not proved, even if it were possible, possibility is inapplicable to God. Therefore, there is no such a thing as a second God.
The possibility of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence. Again, if one God suffices, the second God is superfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.
Now, mind you that the absolutely One God is incorporeal too. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or He would be comparable to other beings.
Since comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, God would thus not be one. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.
Therefore, as you state above our Jewish confession, God is absolutely One and the Only Lord.
Ben:
But in Greek or Roman mythology, they are gods made up by human imagination… Not so with our God. Not a pagan god, even though you believe the contrary…
With Jesus, there is a further development to the Revelation made to Israel. And mind you, even in the Torah the whole Trinity is present. Each person of the Trinity doesn’t interfere at all with any of the two others, they act together, and not one without the others.
They are three divine persons, yet there is ONLY One God… In the beginning of the first book of the Bible, Genesis, the three persons are there, although their distinctness is not per se revealed, certainly not explicitly: “The Breath of God was covering all the waters around the earth,” that’s the Holy Spirit. “And God (that’s the Father) said the Word (that’s the Son):“Let there be light!”…and so it was!”
- Status