Why Elohim if God is Absolutely One?

[Ben_Masada]

You want us to believe you on blind faith going just by what you are telling us. In other words, you are just blowing your own horn! If you say that you really are interested in the Truth, telling us how you reach the conclusions you do should not be a bad thing for you to do…

All you have to do is to test my research with the Scriptures. Isaiah is very clear when he says that if what one teaches is not according to the Law and the Testimony, it’s because there is no light in him or her. (Isa. 8:20)

 

[Ben_Masada]

Oh no, Ben! You are off the tracks on this one. You would like us to believe that Paul and the Apostles were not following the same Jesus. Sure, Paul used to persecute the Church. But after having met the resurrected Jesus on his way to Damascus, he became a member of the Church. Nazarenes or Christians, it’s all the same.

No, the Nazarenes and the Christians were not the same. They were as antagonists to each other as one can be. The converts of the Nazarenes would become staunch defenders of the Law. Read Acts 21:20. The converts of Paul would abandon Moses, stop circumcising their children, and renounce the Jewish customs. Read Acts 21:21)

 

[Ben_Masada]

I agree with you. Elohim in Ps 45:6-7 is being applied to the Son of God according to Trinitarians. However I have never heard a reasonable explanation from those of them who insist elohim when used of God is a plurality of persons.

Dan

I am glad we have come to an understanding.

 

[Ben_Masada]

In another respect, I hope I have/had some lineage to the fore fathers that my Lord spoke directly to. As the little that I do know, up until the time of Christ, I am not aware of any prophet describing or discussing anything about “the absolute unity of God”.

Yet Ben, as you have an answer for everything, could you please direct me to what I missed for the Bible? I recall Exodus 20:2, “I am the Lord thy God”. How does that equate with Genesis 1:26 and who “our image” refers to? I don’t think he gave any clues to Moses, Abraham or other prophets?

With respect to Abu Amran Musa (Moses Maimonides), I might take up the suggestion to read your suggestion, yet I question if he represents all of Judaism’s understanding of things versus neo platonic underpinnings, as you seem to be so diametrically concerned with. Yet, as provided to you on this on the numerous forums you are seemingly on, answers do not mean anything. To seemingly be right in your own mind is what is important and to read what you say is the answer.

So I repeat my question, can you direct me to anything in the Bible directing me to discussion about the question of “the absolute unity of God”, and how they taught Genesis1:26? And this guy, St. Patrick, was he Jewish?

As an aside, with your debates, how does CA compare to other sites?

**The pleasure is mine. Let us start with Isaiah 46:9. “Remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.” It means that God is unique and absolutely One. **

 

[Lapell]

Logic

There seems to be some kind of logical arguments that you still would call bad logic, Ben. Even some simple kind (“simple”, not “simplistic”. Not the same thing, Ben.) Also, in matters of faith, you don’t always go by logic alone, do you!

 

[Lapell]

No, the Nazarenes and the Christians were not the same. They were as antagonists to each other as one can be. The converts of the Nazarenes would become staunch defenders of the Law. Read Acts 21:20. The converts of Paul would abandon Moses, stop circumcising their children, and renounce the Jewish customs. Read Acts 21:21)

I quoted something from the NT the other day calling Paul a Nazarene, and you dismissed that verse, Ben, telling it’s false. I quoted it right, Ben. You still denied what the verse, and that was from the NT. So how can I trust you here?

 

[Lapell]

And you can look into all the posts I have been sending in your threads from the beginning, Ben. It’s there!

 

[Lapell]

No, the Nazarenes and the Christians were not the same. They were as antagonists to each other as one can be. The converts of the Nazarenes would become staunch defenders of the Law. Read Acts 21:20. The converts of Paul would abandon Moses, stop circumcising their children, and renounce the Jewish customs. Read Acts 21:21)

The converts from gentile origin, not from Jewish origin, Ben. This detail is important and is there…

 

[Lapell]

**The pleasure is mine. Let us start with Isaiah 46:9. “Remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.” It means that God is unique and absolutely One. **

And who can tell us how God is in Himself? What we know of Him is not all there is about Him…

 

[Lapell]

All you have to do is to test my research with the Scriptures. Isaiah is very clear when he says that if what one teaches is not according to the Law and the Testimony, it’s because there is no light in him or her. (Isa. 8:20)

Just quoting some Scriptures may still not be enough, Ben.

 

[Lapell]

You can quote many Scripture verses and still be at the surface, Ben. Dig deeper!

 

[Ben_Masada]

There seems to be some kind of logical arguments that you still would call bad logic, Ben. Even some simple kind (“simple”, not “simplistic”. Not the same thing, Ben.) Also, in matters of faith, you don’t always go by logic alone, do you!

Yes, faith is too dangerous. Remember the faithful of Jim Jones? If they had used Logic, almost a thousand of them would not have lost their lives.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I quoted something from the NT the other day calling Paul a Nazarene, and you dismissed that verse, Ben, telling it’s false. I quoted it right, Ben. You still denied what the verse, and that was from the NT. So how can I trust you here?

Paul was never a Nazarene. He did try to join the Nazarenes but he was rejected, because the Apostles did not trust him. Soon he proved that the Apostles were right.

 

[Ben_Masada]

The converts from gentile origin, not from Jewish origin, Ben. This detail is important and is there…

98 percent of Paul’s converts were from Jewish origin. It was his custom to rob the Nazarenes from their synagogues by overturning the converts of the Nazarenes, who would become Jewish, back into their previous condition of Gentiles. Paul was never able to build a church from scratch with Gentiles only. The massive converstion of Gentiles per se started with the Fathers of the Church later around the 4th Century.

 

[Ben_Masada]

And who can tell us how God is in Himself? What we know of Him is not all there is about Him…

**No one can tell what God is like. Read Isaiah 46:5.
“Whom would you compare Me with, as an equal, or match Me against as though we were alike?” **

 

[Ben_Masada]

Just quoting some Scriptures may still not be enough, Ben.

So, as long as you are with me, you don’t have to quote anything else if the Scriptures is not enough for you. It is for me.

 

[reen12]

Hi, Ben Masada. I had a posed a question for you, late in July,
concerning the law of kasruth.
Thank you for your reply to same, at the time.

**Reen12, as a result of my researches in the NT, I have come to the conclusion that only 20 percent is real of coming from and about Jesus. The other 80 percent are made out of interpolations either by the gospel writers or the Church. **

I agree with you in this, Ben Masada.

quote: Ben Masada
****And either for lack of knowledge of Jewish culture and customs by the Gentiles who wrote the gospels or as a result of Church conspiracy. ****

I find no ‘conspiracy’ whatever.
How many Christians, by the 3rd century, for instance,
had any idea of Judaic belief and ritual?
Precious few, I would think.

It helps to realize that Christians really believe
that Yeshua is the second person in a triune godhead.
Many were willing to be martyred, rather than to give up
that belief.

In our day, numbers seem to impress, despite the fact
that number of adherents, to a given faith,
has nothing at all to do with the reality - or lack thereof -
in terms of stated beliefs.

How like God, to entrust a tiny number of people with
the truth, concerning Him. His chosen people have
come forward in time, as His priestly people, and
as the guardians of monotheism.

As the events in the world swirl around us,
one reality comforts. Knowing that His people
say always:

Sh’ma Yis’ra’eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.

Best to you, Ben Masada.

reen12

 

[scapularkid8]

Do you have any idea who wrote the Bible? We did it. The Jews did it.
That’s why we know all these things…All you have to do is to think logically.

Ben:

“Just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts are higher than your thoughts.” -Isaiah 55:9

I do have a question though!

Is your screen name referring to Masada, the fortress built by Herod and attacked by the Romans?

 

[Ben_Masada]

Hi, Ben Masada. I had a posed a question for you, late in July,
concerning the law of kasruth.
Thank you for your reply to same, at the time.

I agree with you in this, Ben Masada.

I find no ‘conspiracy’ whatever.
How many Christians, by the 3rd century, for instance,
had any idea of Judaic belief and ritual?
Precious few, I would think.

It helps to realize that Christians really believe
that Yeshua is the second person in a triune godhead.
Many were willing to be martyred, rather than to give up
that belief.

In our day, numbers seem to impress, despite the fact
that number of adherents, to a given faith,
has nothing at all to do with the reality - or lack thereof -
in terms of stated beliefs.

How like God, to entrust a tiny number of people with
the truth, concerning Him. His chosen people have
come forward in time, as His priestly people, and
as the guardians of monotheism.

As the events in the world swirl around us,
one reality comforts. Knowing that His people
say always:

Sh’ma Yis’ra’eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.

Best to you, Ben Masada.

reen12

Wow Ren12! Shalom to you too from Yerushalaim.

 

[Ben_Masada]

“Just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts are higher than your thoughts.” -Isaiah 55:9

I do have a question though!

Is your screen name referring to Masada, the fortress built by Herod and attacked by the Romans?

That’s not a screen name, Scap. That’s my real name. My father was Masada ben Avraham and mine is J. Ben Masada. Sorry for not spelling my first name.