Why follow a Church not founded by Christ and in Christ?

[Harpazo]

I don’t mean any offense when I ask this question, as some Protestants might charge me with. I sincerely want to know why Protestants belong to their communities that they do. With the information age at such a high point, it’s easier to find the truths of the Catholic faith. They are more accessible now than ever before.

Here’s a list compiled to show when certain denominations are founded:

Church Year Established Founder Where

Catholic 33 Jesus Christ Jerusalem

Orthodox 1054 Schismatic Catholic Bishops - Constantinople

Lutheran 1517 Martin Luther Germany

Anabaptist 1521 Nicholas Storch & Thomas Munzer - Germany

Anglican 1534 Henry VIII England

Mennonites 1536 Menno Simons -Switzerland

Calvinist 1555 John Calvin -Switzerland

Presbyterian 1560 John Knox -Scotland

Congregational 1582 Robert Brown -Holland

Baptist 1609 John Smyth -Amsterdam

Dutch Reformed 1628 Michaelis Jones -New York

Congregationalist -1648 Pilgrims and Puritans -Massachusetts

Quakers 1649 George Fox -England

Amish 1693 Jacob Amman -France

Freemasons 1717 Masons from four lodges -London

Methodist 1739 John & Charles Wesley -England

Unitarian 1774 Theophilus Lindey -London

Methodist Episcopal 1784 60 Preachers -Baltimore, MD

Episcopalian 1789 Samuel Seabury -American Colonies

United Brethren 1800 Philip Otterbein & Martin Boehn -Maryland

Disciples of Christ 1827 Thomas & Alexander Campbell - Kentucky

Mormon 1830 Joseph Smith New York

Methodist Protestant 1830 Methodist - United States

Church of Christ 1836 Warren Stone & Alexander Campbell - Kentucky

Seventh Day Adventist 1844 Ellen White Washington, NH

Christadelphian (Brethren of Christ 1844 John Thomas - Richmond, VA

Salvation Army 1865 William Booth London

Holiness 1867 Methodist United States

Jehovah’s Witnesses 1874 Charles Taze Russell Pennsylvania

Christian Science 1879 Mary Baker Eddy Boston

Church of God in Christ 1895 Various churches of God Arkansas

Church of Nazarene c. 1850-1900 Various religious bodies - Pilot Point, TX

Pentecstal 1901 Charles F. Parkham - Topeka, KS

Aglipayan 1902 Gregorio Aglipay - Philippines

Assemblies of God 1914 Pentecostalism Hot Springs, AZ

Iglesia ni Christo 1914 Felix Manalo Philippines

Four-square Gospel 1917 Aimee Semple McPherson - Los Angeles, CA

United Church of Christ 1961 Reformed and Congregationalist - Philadelphia, PA

Calvary Chapel 1965 Chuck Smith - Costa Mesa, CA

United Methodist 1968 Methodist and United Brethren - Dallas, TX

Born-again c. 1970s Various religious bodies - United States

Harvest Christian 1972 Greg Laurie Riverside, CA

Saddleback 1982 Rick Warren California

Non-denominational c. 1990s various United States

Once I realized what the Catholic Church taught, it’s unity, and ultimately who founded it, I could no longer remain a part of a Church that did not have Christ as it’s founder.

The Churches created from 1517 onward, were not founded “in Christ,” meaning within the Body of Christ. They were founded outside. Secular History and Ecclesiastical History and the Scriptures all attest to this.

So now that you see here which churches were founded when, why be a part of one that’s not perfectly joined to Christ?

Pace e Bene
Andrew

 

[HannahLisa]

Actually, I think the Orthodox also have a pretty good argument for saying their Church was founded by Christ and in Christ. I haven’t really studied the history of that schism, though.

I was raised in non-Catholic churches, and only in the past couple of years have I been in a position to choose the church I would like to attend. Right now I am trying to determine which denomination’s beliefs line up best with what I see in the Bible. That means more to me than the origin of the church. I think this will be an ongoing journey, but that’s fine with me. I am going to a Catholic university and hoping to major in theology.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Here is my opinion on why some people decide to follow a Church not founded by Jesus Christ.

They have issue with authority of the Pope, whom Jesus Christ given his keys to his kingdom, and he built his Church upon Peter. All the Popes derives their authority from the Christ. They are also successor of St. Peter.

In time, sin corrupted individual members within the Church. First the 1054 Schism. Oddly enough the Pope at the time died. Papal Legate who issue the execommunication of Constantinople, was consider nulled or invalid. The execommunication itself was between individuals according to the Orthodox-Catholic Joint Declaration made a similiar statement. It all boils down to authority. The Bishops split with Rome as a result, and Rome likewise.

I do find the Eastern Orthodox more credit than the Protestants. They maintain valid Apostolic Successions, and 7 Sacraments. So there is a chance the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic Church will be united.

I can’t say much for the Protestants because their theology differs so much than Catholicism. Beliefs such as Rapture (according to Dispensationalist view of End Times), Sola Scriptura, and Sola Fidi are so foreign, and heretical to a more orthodox Christian view on theology. Protestants have to drop their theology and follow a theology that closely resemble ancient Christianity founded in the Catholic Church.

Most people who brought up in Protestant Churches aren’t blame for this disunity. Yet, there have been a large number of Protestant discovering Catholicism and find it more Biblical. I think in time, we’ll see more and more Protestants converting to the One Church.

Those who left the Church in this age, I feel sorry for. They have no idea what they are missing. They don’t realized that our Catholic Church is founded by Jesus Christ, and Pope Benedict XVI is the successor of St. Peter.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Haven’t you read the da vinci code? The Catholic Church is obviously a conspiracy to hide the descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdalen.

There are plenty of excuses why the Catholic Church isn’t the true Bride of Christ. People are too emotionally attached to their religion and will buy any excuse.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

The Orthodox is considered by the Catholic Church (all the Rites!) to be part and parcel of the Universal Church of Christ.

There is NOTHING of note or value in pointing fingers at those clerics and religious who for reasons more of culture and language caused the schism.

I am a Latin Rite (or Roman) Catholic. I embrace the faith and Traditions of all the catholic Churches in communion with Rome and with Constantinople.

Robert

 

[holy_wood]

Actually, I think the Orthodox also have a pretty good argument for saying their Church was founded by Christ and in Christ. I haven’t really studied the history of that schism, though.

I was raised in non-Catholic churches, and only in the past couple of years have I been in a position to choose the church I would like to attend. Right now I am trying to determine which denomination’s beliefs line up best with what I see in the Bible. That means more to me than the origin of the church. I think this will be an ongoing journey, but that’s fine with me. I am going to a Catholic university and hoping to major in theology.

So if the Church founded by Jesus Christ does not match what you read in the Bible you wouldn’t join?

 

[KiraSana]

As someone who was raised Evangelical Protestant, I never gave much thought about the actual history of the church (other than some of the “highlights”, like the Reformation). Many Protestants take passages that speak of the church as the body of Christ and focus on the invisible, mystical union of Christians - so long as you are “saved”, you are part of the church, no matter which congregation you attend (though, of course, everyone believes the one they attend is the most correct). There isn’t much attention or teaching on the history of Christians, other than the apostles, then you kind of jump to the P.R. At least, that’s how it was for me.

HannahLisa, I can relate to where you are now. About a year ago, I was going to relocate to a new city and was going to have to find a new congregation. In the process of discerning where I was supposed to be, I became frustrated at all the different Protestant denominations and wanted to know why there are so many. That eventually lead me to study and consider each of the five solas of Protestantism. It wasn’t the history of the Catholic Church or apostolic succession that convinced me. It was studying the doctrinal foundations of Protestantism (the five solas) and the Scripture use in support and then comparing it to the Catholic Church’s position on those doctrinal issues and the Scripture used in support (the Catechism and solid Catholic apologetics, like CA were very helpful - for both sides of the issues, I wanted to hear it from the horse’s mouth, so to speak). I struggled for a time, studying and praying, trying to discern and understand.

It is a journey and only by the grace of God are we able to make the trip. May God grant you grace and wisdom as you persevere on your journey in seeking the Truth.

 

[HannahLisa]

So if the Church founded by Jesus Christ does not match what you read in the Bible you wouldn’t join?

Well, if what I read in the Bible didn’t match the Catholic Church, then I wouldn’t be convinced that it was the only possible valid church founded by Jesus Christ, now would I? So I would have no reason to join it.

KiraSana, thank you for sharing your experience. I’m definitely traveling that road right now. I have faith that God will show me where I should be, in His timing, for God is always good.

 

[Publisher]

Most of us belong to communities of faith that are part of the church of Christ. Those of us in non-Catholic/Orthodox groups do not believe that those churches were “founded” by Christ any more than we believe it about our own…we are all part of the universal Body of Christ in mystical union with Him through the baptism of His Spirit…that some organizations claim to trace their history to 33AD and claim to be the church established by Christ is secondary…

 

[Evan]

Well, if what I read in the Bible didn’t match the Catholic Church, then I wouldn’t be convinced that it was the only possible valid church founded by Jesus Christ, now would I? So I would have no reason to join it.

Sounds like someone may be setting the Bible up as God

If the Church did not stand behind the bible, I would not accept it. Jesus did not write the Bible, nor did He identify any books that should be in it save some from the Old Testament.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Most of us belong to communities of faith that are part of the church of Christ. Those of us in non-Catholic/Orthodox groups do not believe that those churches were “founded” by Christ any more than we believe it about our own…we are all part of the universal Body of Christ in mystical union with Him through the baptism of His Spirit…that some organizations claim to trace their history to 33AD and claim to be the church established by Christ is secondary…

You forgot to add this, publisher:

“We also interpret early Church history to fit our personal interpretation of what a “Christian” is, since there is no one authority but Jesus and forget the part about “Follow me” and to teach as you have been taught, oh and while we’re at it, don’t mistake us for Mormons or Moslems who KNOW what Allah/Joseph Smith/this planet’s resident Deity demands of us, even though a few of these groups may use the same “I’m okay, you’re okay, hey ho go with the flow type of belief,” we want you Catholics not to think OUR personal interpretation is the same as ***THEIR ***personal interpretations. Thank you and God bless.”

Robert

 

[2ndGen]

The simple answer?

Pride.

Those to whom Church History is revealed who fight the inevitable truths that The Universal Christian Church “is” The Church founded by Jesus are struggling with their own egos and refuse to submit their wills to God.

Another answer?

Some are born “into” their faiths and never look outside of the faith in which they found Christ (equating their Church with Christ). In my opinion, nothing wrong with that for those that are true Christians in their hearts.

And finally?

Some are literally agents for Satan and pretend to be Christians (wolves in sheep’s clothing) period.

[SIGN]“By their fruits ye shall know them.”[/SIGN]

 

[b_justb]

Are Protestants Christians? Will Protestants be granted the beatific vision? How would that happen without Christ?

Please stop it.

 

[2ndGen]

The Orthodox is considered by the Catholic Church (all the Rites!) to be part and parcel of the Universal Church of Christ.

There is NOTHING of note or value in pointing fingers at those clerics and religious who for reasons more of culture and language caused the schism.

I am a Latin Rite (or Roman) Catholic. I embrace the faith and Traditions of all the catholic Churches in communion with Rome and with Constantinople.

Robert

I too have a great love for The Orthodox Church.



My girlfriend is Greek Orthodox…we’re going to see a Saint together who’s body is being transported to the US which hasn’t decayed after years of death.

That’s something no other Christian outside of The Universal Christian Church can claim, but us.

Whatever happened a thousand years ago, who cares.

I only care about what we share.

 

[2ndGen]

Are Protestants Christians? Will Protestants be granted the beatific vision? How would that happen without Christ?

Please stop it.

Not all Protestants (or Catholics for that matter) are Christians.

They may call themselves Christians, but a title alone a Christian does not make.

Sheeps and goats. That’s how to look at The Body of Christ.

Good Protestants and Catholics (the sheep) will be one with Jesus.

Those who aren’t worthy will be sifted out as goats among the sheep.

Me? I’m working towards being a sheep…a black sheep of the family maybe, but a sheep nonetheless.

 

[HannahLisa]

Sounds like someone may be setting the Bible up as God

If the Church did not stand behind the bible, I would not accept it. Jesus did not write the Bible, nor did He identify any books that should be in it save some from the Old Testament.

I am a Protestant. I do not have the same views on the Bible as you do, obviously. For me, it is the ultimate authority, being God’s inspired Word and all. There is no Tradition that records Jesus’ words, is there? Where else am I to learn what God has said, but in the Bible? Feelings are unreliable. Someone claiming they are right cannot possibly be taken as proof that they are (e.g. Catholics, Methodists, Muslims, etc). I believe in the most basic tenets of Christianity, including the fact that the Bible is the inspired word of God. I am not saying that I have been convinced by the Bible that the Catholic Church is wrong, because I haven’t been. I am still learning and seeking. But the Bible is going to be integral to that search, as it should be.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

HannahLisa;

As Scott Hahn (the former Evangelical minister) likes to put it: Catholics are Bible-believing Christians who have kept the teachings of our Lord alive and without change for about 2000 years.

The more you read history and study, the more you will understand (as many of us have on these threads) that what we have been “taught” by our local minister is not necessarily what Christians have believed and taught for centuries.

It will take years but keep at it.

God bless you.

Robert

 

[2ndGen]

I am a Protestant. I do not have the same views on the Bible as you do, obviously. For me, it is the ultimate authority, being God’s inspired Word and all. There is no Tradition that records Jesus’ words, is there? Where else am I to learn what God has said, but in the Bible? Feelings are unreliable. Someone claiming they are right cannot possibly be taken as proof that they are (e.g. Catholics, Methodists, Muslims, etc). I believe in the most basic tenets of Christianity, including the fact that the Bible is the inspired word of God. I am not saying that I have been convinced by the Bible that the Catholic Church is wrong, because I haven’t been. I am still learning and seeking. But the Bible is going to be integral to that search, as it should be.

Hi Hannah,

I ask you this with all due respect.

Have you ever considered what if you are placing your faith in a bible version that has had it’s words tampered with and edited to change the meanings of the teachings in it?

When you say you place your faith in the bible, is it in a book?

I (speaking for myself and not for all Catholics) believe every human being has The Word of God written in their hearts and that a book (such as a bible) is a tool we can use to stimulate the opening up of the understanding of the Scriptures.

Have you discerned how you place your faith in a bible?

As for where else you are to learn about Jesus, well, Christianity has always learned about Jesus through “preaching”. In fact, for the first 400 years of Christianity, there was no bible and somehow, through the grace of God, it grew to become the faith of the civilized world (without a bible).

You made a great point about our trusting our own feelings…wouldn’t you call your “trusting” the bible a “feeling” as well?

Even The Holy Bible teaches us clearly that without the guidance of the shephards left to lead us, we could get lost or wolves could mislead us.

This does’nt exclude those who don’t go to any given Church from having a relationship with God (even the sparrows have a personal relationship with God and He provides for them), but being a member of a flock of sheep isn’t bad (not saying that you stated or insinuated this).

 

[2ndGen]

HannahLisa;

As Scott Hahn (the former Evangelical minister) likes to put it: Catholics are Bible-believing Christians who have kept the teachings of our Lord alive and without change for about 2000 years.

The more you read history and study, the more you will understand (as many of us have on these threads) that what we have been “taught” by our local minister is not necessarily what Christians have believed and taught for centuries.

It will take years but keep at it.

God bless you.

Robert

And, as a great Protestant theologian once said…

“To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.”
(Cardinal Newman)

 

[Rightlydivide]

Hi Hannah,

I ask you this with all due respect.

Have you ever considered what if you are placing your faith in a bible version that has had it’s words tampered with and edited to change the meanings of the teachings in it?

When you say you place your faith in the bible, is it in a book?

I (speaking for myself and not for all Catholics) believe every human being has The Word of God written in their hearts and that a book (such as a bible) is a tool we can use to stimulate the opening up of the understanding of the Scriptures.

Have you discerned how you place your faith in a bible?

As for where else you are to learn about Jesus, well, Christianity has always learned about Jesus through “preaching”. In fact, for the first 400 years of Christianity, there was no bible and somehow, through the grace of God, it grew to become the faith of the civilized world (without a bible).

You made a great point about our trusting our own feelings…wouldn’t you call your “trusting” the bible a “feeling” as well?

Even The Holy Bible teaches us clearly that without the guidance of the shephards left to lead us, we could get lost or wolves could mislead us.

This does’nt exclude those who don’t go to any given Church from having a relationship with God (even the sparrows have a personal relationship with God and He provides for them), but being a member of a flock of sheep isn’t bad (not saying that you stated or insinuated this).

Keep it up, you might succeed in talking her out of believing the Bible unless she accepts it for the same reason you do!