Why follow a Church not founded by Christ and in Christ?

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oneGODoneCHURCH said:
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Paul was the most evangelical of the the Church fathers, But the Church was founded by Jesus the Christ. Who set Peter as the leader.

Please clarify what you are saying here I’m lost.
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It is only Catholics, (85% of Christianity) to my knowledge,
who believe that CatholicChurch was founded by Jesus or Peter; this is not however shared by the Protestants/Reformists (15% of Christianity).

Doesn’t that alone speak for itself?

👍
 
2ndGen said:
It is only Catholics, (85% of Christianity) to my knowledge,
who believe that CatholicChurch was founded by Jesus or Peter; this is not however shared by the Protestants/Reformists (15% of Christianity).

Doesn’t that alone speak for itself?

👍
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I believe you are leaving out the Orthodox in the percentages you are using.
 
2ndGen said:
It is only Catholics, (85% of Christianity) to my knowledge,
who believe that CatholicChurch was founded by Jesus or Peter; this is not however shared by the Protestants/Reformists (15% of Christianity).

Doesn’t that alone speak for itself?

👍
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As a Protestant I would not deny that the Catholic Church was started by Jesus. However I also believe that Churches that have split from the Catholic Church at various times can also claim to be founded by Christ. While not quite the same, if my parents were to divorce, they could both just as validly claim me as their son.
 
SyCarl said:
I believe you are leaving out the Orthodox in the percentages you are using.
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I included them with Catholics because of their Apostolic succession.

But if one was to remove the 300 million Orthodox out of that equation, then that would affect the number of Catholics by approximately 5%.

They are defiately “not” Protestants.

So even minus the Orthodox (who agree with Catholics on most fronts),
the number would be 80% Catholic, 5% Orthodox and 15% Protestant
(divided by 24-34,000 denominations depending on who you ask).
 
2ndGen said:
That’s like stating that New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Vermont truly represent the entire United States.
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Umm…fact check…

New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont are far less than 15% of the United States…no matter what metric is used.

Other than that, carry on.
 
SyCarl said:
As a Protestant I would not deny that the Catholic Church was started by Jesus. However I also believe that Churches that have split from the Catholic Church at various times can also claim to be founded by Christ. While not quite the same, if my parents were to divorce, they could both just as validly claim me as their son.
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Absolutely, Catholics consider The Orthodox Church our Apostolic brethren. They were founded by the brother of The Apostle who founded our Church…Saint Andrew (brother to Saint Peter).

The Protestant church (with all due respect to you personally) cannot claim to be founded by an Apostle, but they can all trace their being founded by common men.

Whether Jesus or God annointed these men to found churches and name them after themselves is not my call. I personally find it hard to believe.

The Bible teaches us that The Church is founded on The Apostles.

🙂
 
mozart-250 said:
Umm…fact check…

New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont are far less than 15% of the United States…no matter what metric is used.

Other than that, carry on.
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I was going by state # (3 out of 50) not population.

I’m right, right?

3 states equal roughly 15% of 50 states?
 
2ndGen said:
I was going by state # (3 out of 50) not population.

I’m right, right?

3 states equal roughly 15% of 50 states?
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Nope…3 states is 6% of 50 (3/50 = 6/100). 7.5 states would be 15% of 50.
 
2ndGen said:
I included them with Catholics because of their Apostolic succession.

But if one was to remove the 300 million Orthodox out of that equation, then that would affect the number of Catholics by approximately 5%.

They are defiately “not” Protestants.

So even minus the Orthodox (who agree with Catholics on most fronts),
the number would be 80% Catholic, 5% Orthodox and 15% Protestant
(divided by 24-34,000 denominations depending on who you ask).
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I do believe that your numbers are somewhat off. Catholics represent approximately 50% of Christians.
Major Traditional Branches of Christianity
(mid-1995; source: Encyclopedia Britannica)
Branch Number of Adherents
Catholic 968,000,000
Protestant 395,867,000
Other Christians 275,583,000
Orthodox 217,948,000
Anglicans 70,530,000
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adherents.com/adh_branches.html#Christianity
 
SyCarl said:
I do believe that your numbers are somewhat off. Catholics represent approximately 50% of Christians.
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I just came back to address that when I did the math elsewhere…

Now, Orthodox are said to be 200-350M (there are supposedly). So that makes them outside of Protestants about 20%, Pentecostals about 20% and Catholics 60%.

That is, “if” you break the Orthodox as “not” catholics (which they are).

With 2 billion Christians in the world, Catholic (Western) being 1.2-3Billion, that leaves about 7-800 million non-Latin Rite Catholics left. 1/3 of those are Orthodox. The rest, Protestants which comes out to something like 5-600Million.

The Orthodox broke off “from” Catholicism, but cannot be denied their being a member of The Church due to their Apostolic Succession. They never protested The Church. They didn’t create a new bible. They didnt have to. They have the authority of Andrew. Numbers wise, Catholic Churches total 1.8Billion.

A member of The Orthodox Church can come to The Church and receive Holy Communion.
 
adherents.com/adh_branches.html#Christianity

The notes under the charts define it all.

Wow!

It’s still amazing to me that we are well over 1 Billion (with a capitol “B”)!

I guess The Apostles did their job pretty well when they made disciples of “all” nations.

Hat’s off to The Catholic Church…:tiphat:

Bravo!

:clapping:
 
VWcrazy said:
Where does Scripture state that it is? Please give exact Book, Chapter, and verse.

If you can not do so, then you not following Scripture. In fact, you are acting in direct contridiction to the teachings of Scripture.
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In my post after that post, I stated that I was convinced otherwise, and asked if the Bible would be one of the ultimate authorities for the Church, as it seems to me that it is.

2ndGen – the Wikipedia article you gave me had no citations. However, the adherents link looks good. I wish they had percentages listed though! 😉
 
🙂 hi hannahLisa now the church organized the bible into what we now read so it may be a slight condridiction for the church to say the bible is the ultimate aurthority. the church is lead by Jesus through the Holy Spirit that is the ultimate aurthority. we rely on scripture and what the apostle’s left and the teachings of the church(tradition) tradtion meaning the teachings of both the apostle’s and church fathers by church fathers it is understood as those who inspired by God taught with His authority.🙂
 
if the Bible would be one of the ultimate authorities for the Church, as it seems to me that it is.
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Now are you switching positions.

First you say that the Bible is the ultimate authority.

Now you say the Bible is one of the ultimate authorities for the Church.

Are you changing your position now???
  1. Is the “the ulitmate authority” or “one of the … authorities” - which means there is more than one.
  2. Where do you get this idea? Is it non-Biblical since you fail to show us where Scripture says “the Bible is the ultimate authority”?
 
HannahLisa said:
2ndGen – the Wikipedia article you gave me had no citations. However, the adherents link looks good. I wish they had percentages listed though! 😉
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I know!

I’m too lazy to whip out a calculator and do it myself!

👍
 
VWcrazy said:
Now are you switching positions.

First you say that the Bible is the ultimate authority.

Now you say the Bible is one of the ultimate authorities for the Church.

Are you changing your position now???
  1. Is the “the ulitmate authority” or “one of the … authorities” - which means there is more than one.
  2. Where do you get this idea? Is it non-Biblical since you fail to show us where Scripture says “the Bible is the ultimate authority”?
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Yes. I am switching positions, because you gave me a verse from 1 Timothy which says that the church is the “pillar and foundation of truth”. Therefore, the Bible cannot be the ultimate authority and I have been proved wrong. Congratulations.

Now, I am asking you if the Bible is one of the ultimate authorities of the Church. I think it is, for reasons I have already stated.
 
Now, I am asking you if the Bible is one of the ultimate authorities of the Church.
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The Bible is a canon of Scriptures which was developed by the Catholic Church. It is her declaration of the Faith.
 
2ndGen said:
I know!

I’m too lazy to whip out a calculator and do it myself!

👍
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Going from the figures listed here…

The total amount of Christians is 1 billion 806.25 million.
Of these, 1 billion 290 million are Catholic or Orthodox. (71%)
487.45 million are other Christian denominations. (27%)
28.8 million are Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, or belong to the “New Thought” groups. (2%)

So, not 15%, but Catholics and Orthodox are definitely the majority!
 
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