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Iraneaus
Guest
True words. Nicely put.
Why follow a religion made up by Martin Luther in 1500 and not Christ himself?
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Contarini
Guest
What on earth does this post mean? Lutherans have always believed in the Real Presence. It’s one of their central doctrines. if you don’t know this, you don’t know much about them.
Edwin
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Damascus
Guest
I guess not. Considering I was one. There are so many different ones though.
For instance, the M.S. claim the Pope is the anti-christ. Or did back in the day I was Protestant. I’m just asking a genuine question here. Why not answer it?
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StMarkEofE
Guest
Oh and I was going along so nicely agreeing with this thread until the “who broke from who” came up. I guess we will disagree on whether Rome broke from the other 4 patriarchs or the 4 patriarchs broke from Rome.
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Damascus
Guest
LOL.
Good post but it does not address Luther. Tell the Lutherans/ others that came after them what you think of their ability to claim a valid eucharist.
That will be interesting ideed.
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Contarini
Guest
Well, lots of ex-Catholics don’t seem to have a clue about what the Church actually teaches, do they?
Shouldn’t make a difference, though the ELCA does include groups with more low-church tendencies.
I don’t understand it. What does his local pastor have to do with it? It’s like saying “why does your local priest believe in transubstantiation? After all, Fr. D at Immaculate Conception says that Jesus is only present in the bread and wine as He’s present in the congregation.”
Edwin
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confuzed
Guest
Jesus was not a Catholic, he was a Jew. So was St. Paul.
Religious sectarianism divides. That is what the Pharisees did, and the Saducees, and any who sought their identity by what group they followed.
Group identity makes us self-righteous and it leads to an ‘Us against Them’ mentality. That is exactly what Jesus spoke AGAINST.
We must stop thinking of ourselves as Catholics, or Americans, or as ‘right’ compared to others ‘wrong.’
God states clearly in Isaiah that ALL will be blessed by him.
And elsewhere, that through Abraham ALL the nations of the earth will be blessed.
If we would stop being just another sect of Christianity and study and read what Jesus ACTUALLY SAID we would realize that he criticized his own religion, not the so-called heretics.
He called his own nation to repentance, not anyone else.
We are to take the beam out of our own eyes, not point smugly at the splinter in someone else’s eye.
We are to love, not judge.
Religious sectarianism divides. That is what the Pharisees did, and the Saducees, and any who sought their identity by what group they followed.
Group identity makes us self-righteous and it leads to an ‘Us against Them’ mentality. That is exactly what Jesus spoke AGAINST.
We must stop thinking of ourselves as Catholics, or Americans, or as ‘right’ compared to others ‘wrong.’
God states clearly in Isaiah that ALL will be blessed by him.
And elsewhere, that through Abraham ALL the nations of the earth will be blessed.
If we would stop being just another sect of Christianity and study and read what Jesus ACTUALLY SAID we would realize that he criticized his own religion, not the so-called heretics.
He called his own nation to repentance, not anyone else.
We are to take the beam out of our own eyes, not point smugly at the splinter in someone else’s eye.
We are to love, not judge.
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Damascus
Guest
I am a Catholic.
Your post makes no sense.
How can a Protestant of any flavor of the day claim they have a valid Eucharist?
That is my question you are not understanding.
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Contarini
Guest
No, of course I didn’t understand it, because you didn’t put it this way.
You used to be a Protestant. Did you go around saying “we don’t have a valid Eucharist”? It’s a bizarre question.
How can we not claim to have a valid Eucharist? Otherwise, obviously, we would stop being Protestants!
Edwin
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Damascus
Guest
I used to be a Protestant for a reason. Use some critical thinking.
Make your claim to have a valid Eucharist.
You claim you have it. Back that claim up.
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glimmer
Guest
I’m so glad someone else knows what this is like. I have seen so much convoluted Bible interpretation over the matter-- Sometimes people married other people who had been married before and got divorced. Then, after having been married to and divorced from a previously married person, they were still considered to have “been married before” and were thus unmarriageable.
I know one man in this boat who married a second wife. She was talked into believing that she shouldn’t be married to him after they had several kids. So they split up and one of their sons was reported to have attempted suicide because he thought he was never supposed to have been born.
I heard of another lady in the Church of Christ, I think it was, who had a horribly abusive husband, but she wasn’t supposed to leave him. So she went back home and he shot her, leaving her permanently diabled in a wheel chair.
My grandfather was a minister and he was strict on not marrying people who had ever been married and divorced. He also wouldn’t marry a Christian with a non-Christian. Nor would he marry two unbelievers–though I can’t understand the attitudes here, for God made marriage before He told anyone how to perform it. I wonder if non-Christians aren’t really married and are living in fornication? Okay, I don’t really wonder that, but it seems like a related question.
The point is that people can get so involved with the question, “Is it lawful?” Sometimes there is just no way to unscramble eggs. There comes a point when you have to forget about who did what to whom and focus on getting your own life straightened out with God. There are worse things than **accidentally **messing up in marriage–like **deliberately **committing murder. God looks at the heart. Just be sure you know your own.
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glimmer
Guest
Probably the Coptic Church, the Ethiopian Church–perhaps even the vestigial remains of the Church in India where St. Thomas preached and possibly also the Church established in Iraq where Jude went. I think they were separate for many years from what became the distinct entity of the Catholic Church of today. I think there are others, too, but I forget the names. I think the early Church was a pretty loose structure in the beginning.
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Contarini
Guest
Why should I assume the burden of proof?
Jesus said to the apostles, “Do this in remembrance of me.” You claim that this applies only to those ordained by a bishop in apostolic succession (and you further claim, for highly dubious reasons, that Anglicans don’t have apostolic succession). But you are the one who needs to give evidence for this claim. Why are you so sure that Jesus’ words applied only to certain officers within the Church and not to the Church as a whole?
I don’t worry about what is valid or isn’t. It’s not a category I recognize. I don’t believe that any attempt at celebrating a Sacrament is a “failure.”
Why should I believe otherwise? You’re the one attacking my beliefs. I have no problem at all with you being a Catholic. This whole thread is a rather discourteous and sweeping attack on Protestantism. So the burden of proof is on you.
Edwin
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ALLFORHIM
Guest
AMEN!!!:clapping:
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stefany379
Guest
Listen
Every non-Catholic on this site must go to the website GUYDOUD.COM and listen to his story. Even better the website WWW.EWTN.COM/VONDEMAND/AUDIO and pick and choose a story with each convert and their reasons WHY they converted to The Catholic faith. Guy Doud was an Evangelical Protestant for 17 years. He tells how Protestants do not have the fullness of what Christ intended with The Sacraments. He goes on to say how Luther and Calvin DID NOT have the writings of The Early Church Fathers. And how The Catholic Church REALLY IS the True Church started by Christ.
TO BE DEEP IN HISTORY IS TO CEASE TO BE PROTESTANT- John Henry Newman (convert)
Every non-Catholic on this site must go to the website GUYDOUD.COM and listen to his story. Even better the website WWW.EWTN.COM/VONDEMAND/AUDIO and pick and choose a story with each convert and their reasons WHY they converted to The Catholic faith. Guy Doud was an Evangelical Protestant for 17 years. He tells how Protestants do not have the fullness of what Christ intended with The Sacraments. He goes on to say how Luther and Calvin DID NOT have the writings of The Early Church Fathers. And how The Catholic Church REALLY IS the True Church started by Christ.
TO BE DEEP IN HISTORY IS TO CEASE TO BE PROTESTANT- John Henry Newman (convert)
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jay29
Guest
You are right! We are to Love, not judge.
However, there is a right and wrong. People tend to forget this these days. It’s called relativism. It is when someone’s opinions are just as correct as another’s regardless of what the facts are. That is why the world is upside down. We have too much tolerance because we “accept” to many beliefs/practices that should have been rejected a long time ago.
Religious indifference is also bad because there can only be ONE truth not the many.They are not all equal.Both Apostolic Churches have the greatest claim to the truth then any other church out there.
Not all “Christian” Churches preach the truth and therefore are not God’s Churches. They are in name only.
Jesus preached the truth above all else.
“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life”
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Contarini
Guest
I’ve read convert stories out the wazoo. I practically had *Rome Sweet Home *memorized at one point.
And the Newman quote is simply wrong. There are lots of Protestants who are deep in history, and lots of Catholic would-be “apologists” who use their Catholicism to protect them from history. Witness the recent claim that the Reformers just “started their own denominations” because no existing church quite fit their beliefs. No one who was deep in history could make a claim like that.
Edwin
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Mickey
Guest
Hello Damascus.
Simply put, Edwin is saying that he doesn’t believe in the sacrament of Holy Orders.
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cove
Guest
For how long was the bible an oral tradition? How did the bible get written? Who wrote it down? I suggest you take a history lesson. I am sorry to tell you you are missing out on alot as a Christian. You are not fully following Christ if you are outside HIS Church. You have been handed a watered down version of Christianity. If you are satified with that, fine. I would not be, though.Anyway, back to topic, I dont follow Martin Luther I follow Christ and the living breathing love letter He sent us–the bible.
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jmcrae
Guest
If it helps, I couldn’t relate to that story, either. It seemed very emotional, to me, which would be fine except for the claim that they studied their way into the Church.
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