Why forbid homosexuals from being ordained as priests?

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Does that mean that the Church erred?

Yes this means that the policy used if this was the policy was not the best policy to use. Don’t confuse policy with doctrine Leela. If you are looking for a smoking gun to attack the infallacy of the church this is not it. The church can err in policy which isn’t protected in by the doctrine of infallacy not in matters on teaching of faith and morals.

The Church did not err.

It was the bishops who chose to ordain men to the priesthood who might not have truely had a calling. While the bishops speak for the Church they are also sinful human beings and can make errors.

 

[PatrickSebast]

Also, PatrickSebast pointed out that pedophiles and pederstasts who prey on males are more likely to be heterosexual rather than homosexual in their adult attractions, so it seems that your statistical argument falls completely flat and perhaps the statistics even suggest that heterosexuals are more likely to abuse young and teenage boys.

Actually I that study I noted was only discussing pedophiles. I did an extensive search of various studies through my universities library but couldn’t find any worthwhile statistics on those who commit acts of pederasty or anything similar. As far as I can tell there isn’t really any conclusive evidence on the subject at the moment. Anyway the Churches reason for their ruling on homosexual priests has nothing to do with the clergy abuse issues, at least as far as the Church has claimed so you are really wasting your time arguing about this specific subject. If people are willing to defend a reason that they invented themselves to fervently I don’t really think you stand to gain any ground with them.

Anyway as I said before, in practice, people with SSA’s are still being ordained. Despite this being made obvious through numerous studies, and the Church seemingly looking into the issue on its own, they haven’t released a statement clarifying that “Deep-seated homosexual tendencies” = Same Sex Attractions. So for better or worse it does not appear that the Church is completely forbidding homosexual ordination, they are just asking the seminaries to not take the issue lightly. Of course sometimes the Church is just extremely slow in responding to these things so I can’t say this with absolute certainty.

 

[JDaniel]

The facts are no one knows the number. These percentages that are getting quoted are guesses and I don’t believe in guesses. The only figure you can come up with that can make any sense is make a comparable analysis to the general population. If in the general population 1-2% are gay then you would have to determine that 1-2% of priests are gay. There is no proof whatsoever that I have seen that shows this disproportionate amount is true.

ER:

That’s simply not true. The Catholic Church is seen by gays as a great place to exist, if not hide. Thus, from every study that’s been done, more homosexuals want to be Priests and subsequently become Priests. Anecdotally, the two friends, that I have that are gay, both want to be Priests. It is not comparable to the outside world. It may seem so, but, I think the majority of Priests with homosexual leanings really take their vocation seriously.

God bless,
jd

 

[Charlemagne_II]

In America 22,000 priests have left the priesthood to get married. They evidently were heterosexual. Having left the field to homosexual priests, there is no alternative but for the Church to hope the homosexuals they ordain are not also pedophiles. But it’s clear that the pathway to the priesthood is not so open for heterosexuals who want to marry as it is for homosexuals who don’t want a wife and family. Homosexuals who become priests are going to be confronted with the same temptation to betray their vow of chastity as heterosexuals. If they can’t refraining from unnatural sex, like the heterosexual who cannot refrain from natural sex, they should leave the priesthood or risk giving tremendous scandal to the Church.

 

[JDaniel]

In America 22,000 priests have left the priesthood to get married. They evidently were heterosexual. Having left the field to homosexual priests, there is no alternative but for the Church to hope the homosexuals they ordain are not also pedophiles. But it’s clear that the pathway to the priesthood is not so open for heterosexuals who want to marry as it is for homosexuals who don’t want a wife and family. Homosexuals who become priests are going to be confronted with the same temptation to betray their vow of chastity as heterosexuals. If they can’t refraining from unnatural sex, like the heterosexual who cannot refrain from natural sex, they should leave the priesthood or risk giving tremendous scandal to the Church.

Chas:

I would only change your word, pedophile, for, pederasty, which is more properly what we have seen. It is the correct description of the vast majority of the cases. In general, homosexuals do not desire sex with children, IMO.

God bless,
jd

 

[Charlemagne_II]

J Daniel

The distinction between pedophilia and pederasty is a blurred one, relying on the arbitrary division of age groups. In either case, it is the abuse of a child by an adult, and neither is allowed by law, moral or civil. How many priests have played with boys younger than adolescence (pedophilia) I have no idea, but I suppose it to be a significant number that should not be ignored. So your point is well taken, but I would include pedophilia along with pederasty.

Is there published anywhere a statistical breakdown of the two age groups?

Thanks for the qualification.

 

[ERose]

ER:

That’s simply not true. The Catholic Church is seen by gays as a great place to exist, if not hide. Thus, from every study that’s been done, more homosexuals want to be Priests and subsequently become Priests. Anecdotally, the two friends, that I have that are gay, both want to be Priests. It is not comparable to the outside world. It may seem so, but, I think the majority of Priests with homosexual leanings really take their vocation seriously.

God bless,
jd

J, can you supply me with links to these studies that you are referencing so I can study them?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Light

The same way one might say that rape is not a sexual act *-- it is a violent one, and more about power than about sex – so too, pedophilia is more a violent act than a sexual one. But a homosexual act is about sex. An important distinction. *

Rape is a sexual act, and it is violent as well. As such, it is unnatural. Your attempt to raise homosexual acts above rape as a crime against nature doesn’t wash. Just as a rapist or a pedophile may be acting out infantile projections, so is the homosexual. When you say a pedophile is acting out some infantile projection, how do you know (how can you prove) that homosexual acts are not based on the same infantile projections? The homosexuals I’ve known were seduced in their youth by an adult homosexual. They learn from such a person, especially if they are fond of that person, that homosexual sex acts are pleasurable (how anal sex can be pleasurable I have yet to find out, nor do I really want to).

 

[miguel]

…Fulfilling their sexual desires, led these men to foresake their priestly connection to Christ, to His people, and to do irreperable damage to the children they sexually abused…

“Forsake” assumes these men actually had a priestly connection to Christ. I don’t know if we can assume that. That might be true of some. Who knows? It’s just as easy to assume they were predators with evil intent who deviously gained access to children through the vehicle of the priesthood.

 

[miguel]

…Based on a database of 3,000 priests accused of sexual abuse that it had compiled, the group BishopAccountability.org said in 2009 that one-third of the abusive priests in the US had links to Ireland (the article on this database refers to some as “either born in Ireland or are of Irish descent who came to the US” but did not define the “links to Ireland”).[18]…

For years, the US Church had a large percentage of Irish priests. If their prominence in the abuse statistics is significantly greater than their prominence in the US priesthood, then it’s fair to question the Irish role in this as Irish. Do you happen to know the percentage of US priests who are “either born in Ireland or are of Irish descent who came to the US” over the period covered by the John Jay report?

 

[Vindictive]

Homosexuals are NOT forbidden from being ordained as priests. In fact, the explanations of exactly who is forbidden from being ordained priests are as explicit as possible. Being ACTIVELY homosexual is a sin. Supporting actual homosexual acts would therefore qualify as a sin. Any person who ACTIVELY supports sin or a sinful lifestyle should not be a priest.

You don’t get to vote on doctrine in Catholicism, but the illiterate masses still want to believe it is a democracy.

Homosexuality is no more deadly a sin than cheating at cards, however certain parties in the church overlook the heirarchy of the mortal and venial natures of sins in order to antagonize (or to claim THEY are being antagonized).

You could replace every reference to homosexuality with any other sin and it would still be factually true but miss the spirit of that truth.