Why GOD dosn't put a sign in the sky for Him!

[faithsmind]

This sort of speaks to what I have just stated above. But I believe we can only come to discover the fullness of God’s truths through a process of both faith and reason. They both work together, much like a bride and groom working together everyday to make a marriage work.

I meant to edit what I said here! It gets confusing, sorry.

edit to this:
But I believe we can only come to discover the fullness of God’s truths through a process of both faith and reason. They both work together, much like a bride and groom working together everyday to make a marriage work. So I very much disagree with your final statement, that scripture might be a hoax! How can you understand our Father this way? It makes me sad. Scripture is a beautiful love letter if you understand it within the context of tradition.

 

[polytropos]

Reason is the most perfect emanation of ‘self’ and as ‘God is Love’ and love is in conflict with self, it is thus highly unlikely that reason can know or discover God.

We are called to love God, our neighbors, and ourselves. Love is not in conflict with the self unless love for the self exceeds love for God and for others.

Reason is also the way that we interface with God’s creation. Reason is not an emanation of the self. The self was created by God, in the image of God. Our reason is “like” God’s reason. Not as good, surely, but capable of something, certainly.

The only part of ‘reason’ that might contribute to a search to find God is how prepared we are to accept correction and learn. For being prepared to be corrected and learn insight not of our own intellectual making would be selfless and demand faith. Unfortunately such a ‘path’ is not on offer by any existing tradition. It remains to be revealed!

You are correct that reason will help us prepare to accept correction and learn. You are mistaken that such a path has not been revealed. By the light of reason, we can understand that we can obtain the proper guidance by submitting to the Magisterium of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

 

[ngill09]

There are signs visible to everyone when they look for them. There just isn’t one obvious sign for everyone.

But it will increase the number of confused people following the “true” religion.

My point again: a cross in the sky is still very general, obscure, and detached.

I don’t believe the Father wants to be understood in this manner. I believe that people such as yourself, who are sincerely looking for the truth, please Our Father very much. To come to truth requires humility and persistence coming from a love of God and goodness, which I believe is of much more worth than an objective knowledge of the truth. An objective knowledge, much like the Isrealites had of the manna falling from the sky, was all about themselves trying to survive, so it didn’t really “stick”, you know? Little did they know that their experience was telling a larger story of salvation history, and would have greater value to those people who would read about later, people who were searching for God’s truth out of love and humility. Again, you can’t fully know God’s truths unless you search for them in this manner (out of love and humility). Only then will you come to an understanding of their full meaning and value.

The massive assumption here is that none of the billions of non-Christians on this planet who are content with their religious beliefs are genuinely searching for the truth with love and humility.

If you admit that people can genuinely search for the truth and not find Christianity, then it must follow that Christianity is not necessary for salvation, or that God damns those who could not have known that Christianity was necessary, or that God does not exist.

You either have an evil God, a universalistic God, or a non-existent God.

 

[Shin]

“There will be signs in the sun and in the moon and in the stars.”

‘To the mind of St. Augustin, it seemed that the sun, the moon, stars, mountains, rivers, all, in fine, that he saw about him, spoke to him in these words: “Augustin, love God, because He has created all this for thee, that thou mightst love Him.”’

 

[Sam_777]

The massive assumption here is that none of the billions of non-Christians on this planet who are content with their religious beliefs are genuinely searching for the truth with love and humility.

I agree with you here…

You either have an evil God, a universalistic God, or a non-existent God.

Well, I do not agree with you on that one!, maybe your statement could be right only if JESUS did not show up on this earth.

JESUS showed that there is a true beloving LORD, but why He did not put a physical sign for His true path, that remains a mystery for me…

 

[Sam_777]

“There will be signs in the sun and in the moon and in the stars.”

‘To the mind of St. Augustin, it seemed that the sun, the moon, stars, mountains, rivers, all, in fine, that he saw about him, spoke to him in these words: “Augustin, love God, because He has created all this for thee, that thou mightst love Him.”’

Hello to my dear friend in Christ Shin,
Nice to hear from you, however, I am looking for the signs which will tell Muslims/Hinduism/Buddhism that this is the LORD true religion instead of letting them go astray…

 

[Patat]

God damns those who could not have known that Christianity was necessary, or that God does not exist.

Personally, I am sure that God does not damn those that could not have known. The ones that are in trouble are the ones that should have known. They saw the signs and chose to disregard them. And I won’t even say that they are damned now. They will be given more signs as long as God wills.

 

[faithsmind]

The massive assumption here is that none of the billions of non-Christians on this planet who are content with their religious beliefs are genuinely searching for the truth with love and humility.

Yes, that is the assumption. If they are content, they are not searching. Your assumption is that I think this is wrong, right? I don’t necessarily think that this is wrong.

If you admit that people can genuinely search for the truth and not find Christianity, then it must follow that Christianity is not necessary for salvation, or that God damns those who could not have known that Christianity was necessary, or that God does not exist.

This depends on whether they have heard the true message, the true word of God. If they have heard the true words, and they are genuinely searching to do what is good, with humility, then I believe the words “click” and are welcomed into the soul with joy. But there are many individual factors which play into that interaction, so its not for me to judge a person’s acceptance of The Word or his eternal fate.

God is Word, not object. When He temporarily manifests Himself through the physical world to everyone, it is always within the context of a message given to a few.

 

[Muze]

Why GOD doesn’t put a sign in the sky showing His true path!, for example, instead of the moon each night we see, he would put starts in a cross order or simply the name of the religion understood by any human on earth.

I think that will end all the disputes between all religions on earth, and it will be a compelling reason to judge people on the judgment day.

Thoughts?

God did that at Sinai. It didn’t work out too well.

 

[shoe]

God did that at Sinai. It didn’t work out too well.

Agreed. I don’t think that all the signs in the sky would inspire some people to seek the love of God. “And the Lord said to Moses: How long will this people detract me? how long will they not believe me for all the signs that I have wrought before them?” (Numbers 14:11). And after Jesus had feed the multitude, the multitude did not want Jesus, they wanted more bread. “you seek me, not because you have seen miracles, but because you did eat of the loaves, and were filled” (John 6:26).

 

[ngill09]

Agreed. I don’t think that all the signs in the sky would inspire some people to seek the love of God. “And the Lord said to Moses: How long will this people detract me? how long will they not believe me for all the signs that I have wrought before them?” (Numbers 14:11). And after Jesus had feed the multitude, the multitude did not want Jesus, they wanted more bread. “you seek me, not because you have seen miracles, but because you did eat of the loaves, and were filled” (John 6:26).

Again, the standard is not that all people would convert if given an unambiguous sign, it’s if any would convert. Would Saul have become Paul if he had not been given an unambiguous sign on the road to Damascus?

 

[shoe]

Again, the standard is not that all people would convert if given an unambiguous sign, it’s if any would convert. Would Saul have become Paul if he had not been given an unambiguous sign on the road to Damascus?

I think that such things as the universe, life, and CAF are very “unambiguous signs” that make it possible for any person to believe in the One who has made all things great and small, if they should so choose to believe. The Bible says in Romans 1:20 NJB: “ever since the creation of the world, the invisible existence of God and his everlasting power have been clearly seen by the mind’s understanding of created things. And so these people have no excuse.” And so whether or not “any would convert” from what a non-religious person may consider an “unambiguous sign” in the sky from God depends in large part upon that person’s free-will choice and world view.

People who choose to believe in the existence of God can easily do so because they are able to recognize the existing evidence all around them. But people who have decided in their hearts not to budge even unto the end their days from a belief system that presupposes the non-existence of God would merely dismiss out of hand as some sort of hallucination any sign that God might put in the sky about “the way, and the truth, and the life” (John 14:6). The world view they have chosen simply does not give them much room either to believe or to interpret anything that may run contrary to their opinion.

 

[Shin]

Hello to my dear friend in Christ Shin,
Nice to hear from you, however, I am looking for the signs which will tell Muslims/Hinduism/Buddhism that this is the LORD true religion instead of letting them go astray…

It’s always good to hear from you too my friend. God keep you and strengthen you, I pray, my brother!

I think there’s been some good insights as to how we can rely too much on externals and not enough on externals so far.

The decision to embrace God requires interior grace after all.

‘You are happy in being chosen by God to enkindle his love in the hearts of others. To do this it is necessary to have deep humility and an entire distrust of self, besides zeal. We must act without haste and wait with peace and confidence until it pleases God to accomplish in those souls that which his grace alone is capable of doing and of which he alone must reap the glory.’

St. Claude de la Colombiere

 

[ngill09]

I think that such things as the universe, life, and CAF are very “unambiguous signs” that make it possible for any person to believe in the One who has made all things great and small, if they should so choose to believe. The Bible says in Romans 1:20 NJB: “ever since the creation of the world, the invisible existence of God and his everlasting power have been clearly seen by the mind’s understanding of created things. And so these people have no excuse.” And so whether or not “any would convert” from what a non-religious person may consider an “unambiguous sign” in the sky from God depends in large part upon that person’s free-will choice and world view.

People who choose to believe in the existence of God can easily do so because they are able to recognize the existing evidence all around them. But people who have decided in their hearts not to budge even unto the end their days from a belief system that presupposes the non-existence of God would merely dismiss out of hand as some sort of hallucination any sign that God might put in the sky about “the way, and the truth, and the life” (John 14:6). The world view they have chosen simply does not give them much room either to believe or to interpret anything that may run contrary to their opinion.

Is any belief in a higher power sufficient to get into Heaven? We’re talking about a sign that Christianity is true.

 

[Kevin12]

God does not put a sign because he wants us to come to Him on our own. Of course, there are many people on the way who want to turn us aside. Some in unexpected ways - for example, there are some on this forum who act as though they were our friends, but truly want to lead us to hate and despise the Church, and place their own interpretation of tradition above that of the Magisterium, to whom they ultimately only pay lipservice.

These are, indeed, the sort of people who act as there were such a sign, but they alone are capable of interpreting it. You might say this show why a sign would be useless - because there would always be misinterpretation, and people willing to say they alone understood the sign. Indeed, there are some people who do this with the writings of the saints, which they take out of context in order to support extreme opinions as if they were the doctrines of the Church which everyone must follow or face damnation. And what’s worse is that such people actually ignore and spit on those whom God has sent to guide us in the right direction, insofar as they disagree with their opinions.

Again, false friends are very dangerous. Some of them are extremely polite and seemingly thoughtful, but once you look deeper you will see the hardness of their hearts and their lack of understanding. Everyone should be wary of these kind of people.

 

[shoe]

Is any belief in a higher power sufficient to get into Heaven?

St. Peter says that: “Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).

We’re talking about a sign that Christianity is true.

I think that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus are three great signs that Christianity is true. Actually people can find the Truth of Christianity just about everywhere; for example, they can find it in the observable order and design of the universe, in the laws of physics, and also in the moral laws. Even people who never have heard the gospel can see the signs for the existence of God not only through nature, but also through the windows of their own soul. God promises that: “Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you” (Matthew 7:7).

I also think that this article from thecatholictreasurechest.com/jesus.htm shows that Jesus changed the history of mankind as only God can:

Jesus Christ, the Incomparable…
More than nineteen hundred years ago there was a man born contrary to the laws of life.
This man lived in poverty and was reared in obscurity.
He did not travel extensively.
Only once did He cross the boundary of the country in which He lived; that was during His exile in childhood.

He possessed neither wealth nor influence.
His relatives were inconspicuous and had neither training nor formal education.
In infancy He startled a king; in childhood He puzzled doctors; in manhood He ruled the course of nature, walked upon the billows as if pavements, and hushed the sea to sleep.
He healed the multitudes without medicine and made no charges for His service.

He never wrote a book, yet all the libraries of the country could not hold the books that have been written about Him.
He never wrote a song, and yet He has furnished the theme for more songs than all the songwriters combined.
He never founded a college, but all the schools put together cannot boast of having as many students.
He never marshaled an army, nor drafted a soldier, nor fired a gun; and yet no leader ever had more volunteers who have, under His orders, made more rebels stack arms and surrender without a shot being fired.

He never practiced medicine and yet He healed more broken hearts than all the doctors far and near.
Every seventh day the wheels of commerce cease their turning and multitudes wend their way to worshiping assemblies to pay homage and respect to Him.
The names of past, proud statesmen of Greece and Rome have come and gone.
The names of past scientists, philosophers, and theologians have come and gone, but the name of this man abounds more and more.

Although nineteen hundred years between the people of this generation and the scene of His crucifixion have passed, yet He still lives.
Herod could not destroy Him and the grave could not hold Him.
He stands forth upon the highest pinnacle of heavenly glory, proclaimed of GOD, acknowledged by angels, adored by saints, and feared by devils, as the living personal Christ, our Lord and Savior.

Unknown Author…