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Fox
Guest
If God does not need us why did He make us in the first place. Why do people exist from a Christian perspective? What is our purpose?
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fhansen
Guest
God is love, ultimate goodness. Intrinsic to God’s love is sheer, boundless joy and happiness. Love, by it’s nature, wants to share this joy and happiness. God created us to know Him and share in loving relationship with Him. But experiencing love on this scale is only possible for beings with reason who possess the freedom to embrace that love-or reject it. The purpose of this life is to mold/form/develop beings who come to know God-to learn the ‘value of God’, so to speak-and so finally to fully embrace Love so they can share in His happiness.
meltzerboy
New member
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Dragonslayer
Guest
At a catechism lesson a few years ago we were discussing creation and at the end of the lesson someone asked, a bit light-heartedly, “Why did God even bother”. It’s a similar question to what is being asked here.
This one question had me thinking more than anything else we discussed. Not so much, “Why did God make us?” and I think fhansen has answered that admirably, but moreso “Why has God made us the way He has?”
And what I mean is: God gave man a free will, but he also made it a weak will. He had previously banished the devil, but then allows the devil to tempt us, knowing that with our weak will, we will fall. Indeed, our first parents fell almost straight away, and the gates to Heaven were closed. God then gave us his only Son to redeem us, to die for our sins and re-open the gates to Heaven.
On the surface, indeed to many nonbelievers, the fall of our first parents and the weak will we have been given could be seen as a flaw in the grand scheme. ie, it appears we have been made to fail, and it is only through the intercession of His Son that we were given the chance to overcome this “flaw of creation”.
Now, we know this is not correct. God is perfect, His plan is perfect, and He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. So, the weak will of man, the fall of man, the Word made Flesh and the redemption were all part of God’s perfect plan for us.
Why was it done this way? I can only conclude that it is how God wanted to create us, that this is the only way we can obtain the perfection to obtain the beautific vision in Heaven. That the challenge we face on Earth is to overcome our own weak will, to overcome the temptations of the devil and to use our own free will to follow God’s teachings, via the teachings of His Son. That this is part of His creation, part of his grand plan for us, that this is the way, the only way, we get to Heaven.
Therefore, I have also concluded that we are still being made, ie we are still living in the time of God’s creation. God is still molding us, and if you understand that time is an earthly concept and not a heavenly concept, this starts to make sense. He is still in the process of making us, so that we can serve Him in Heaven.
Any thoughts?
This one question had me thinking more than anything else we discussed. Not so much, “Why did God make us?” and I think fhansen has answered that admirably, but moreso “Why has God made us the way He has?”
And what I mean is: God gave man a free will, but he also made it a weak will. He had previously banished the devil, but then allows the devil to tempt us, knowing that with our weak will, we will fall. Indeed, our first parents fell almost straight away, and the gates to Heaven were closed. God then gave us his only Son to redeem us, to die for our sins and re-open the gates to Heaven.
On the surface, indeed to many nonbelievers, the fall of our first parents and the weak will we have been given could be seen as a flaw in the grand scheme. ie, it appears we have been made to fail, and it is only through the intercession of His Son that we were given the chance to overcome this “flaw of creation”.
Now, we know this is not correct. God is perfect, His plan is perfect, and He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. So, the weak will of man, the fall of man, the Word made Flesh and the redemption were all part of God’s perfect plan for us.
Why was it done this way? I can only conclude that it is how God wanted to create us, that this is the only way we can obtain the perfection to obtain the beautific vision in Heaven. That the challenge we face on Earth is to overcome our own weak will, to overcome the temptations of the devil and to use our own free will to follow God’s teachings, via the teachings of His Son. That this is part of His creation, part of his grand plan for us, that this is the way, the only way, we get to Heaven.
Therefore, I have also concluded that we are still being made, ie we are still living in the time of God’s creation. God is still molding us, and if you understand that time is an earthly concept and not a heavenly concept, this starts to make sense. He is still in the process of making us, so that we can serve Him in Heaven.
Any thoughts?
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Robert_Sock
Guest
I like this explanation and I hold LOVE to be the ultimate value.
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Anathama_Sit
Guest
I cannot answer this any better than the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Paragraph 1
God, infintely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Savior. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.
Paragraph 1
God, infintely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Savior. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.
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SwissGuard25
Guest
Here’s what the Catechism says about why God made us.
Catechism Section One, Two.
"God created us out of unselfish love [1-3]
When man loves, his heart overflows. He would like to share his joy with others. He gets this from his Creator. Although God is a mystery, we can still think about him in a human way and say: Out of the ‘surplus’ of his love he created us. He wanted to share his endless joy with us, who are creatures of his Love."***
Catechism Section One, Two.
"God created us out of unselfish love [1-3]
When man loves, his heart overflows. He would like to share his joy with others. He gets this from his Creator. Although God is a mystery, we can still think about him in a human way and say: Out of the ‘surplus’ of his love he created us. He wanted to share his endless joy with us, who are creatures of his Love."***
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tonyrey
Guest
That is why love and creativity are simply different aspects of the Supreme Being. We cannot penetrate further into the divine mystery nor is there any need. We know everything that is necessary for everlasting joy and harmony…
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Anathama_Sit
Guest
Greetings Curious Seed,
See post no. 6.
God Bless,
Anathama Sit
See post no. 6.
God Bless,
Anathama Sit
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greylorn
Guest
God made the body, but not the soul.
He made the body to bring the stupid soul, which has always existed, into consciousness.
He did that because he screwed up at the construction of the universe and failed to account for the long term entropy depletion caused by black holes.
Neither God nor his assistants have been able to solve the problem, which will end in a universe within which none of us, God included, can continue to exist. Thus, they are bringing humans into consciousness as a last-ditch effort to save themselves. Maybe one very bright human such as Stephen Hawking will see the problem from a different perspective and find a solution.
Now you know. So either study physics or devote your life to the support of one or several, or be purposeless.
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Shike
Guest
Others might say thank you for the gift of existence and show that thankfulness by an outpouring of love towards others.
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greylorn
Guest
They might, and I do. Sometimes, legitimate love gets tough.
At the moment I’ll manifest my love for you by encouraging you to learn how to read properly. “Existence” is not the gift— “consciousness,” otherwise known as self-awareness is.
For some of us, it is more curse than gift. So. you live your happy life, I’ll deal with my crummy life. BTW, have you ever considered doing missionary work, maybe spreading your joy of life in Zimbabwe?
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
Q. Why did God make you?
A. God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.
A. God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.
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greylorn
Guest
Your recall of the 1948 Baltimore Cathechism is rote perfect.
So, if God made man to love him, why did he make so many men ornery?
If God made man to know the most powerful and complex entity in the universe, a being of infinite or at least awesome intelligence, why did he make most of us stupid? Why isn’t the mean I.Q. at least 1000— instead of 100, which is just a few ticks smarter than the “idiot” and “cretin” classifications?
If God made man to serve him, why did he make most of us so arrogant that we will not serve our fellow man fairly? Why is the desire to appear better than others— have the biggest house, fastest car, or loudest stupid dog in the neighborhood— so much more predominant in the human program than the desire to serve?
And by the way, exactly how does one “serve” an entity who can accomplish all possible actions by an act of omnipotent will? There is nothing that 20 billion human beings can accomplish in a century that an omnipotent God cannot do a better job of in a femtosecond.
The obvious deficiencies of man show, in light of your catechismic analysis, one of three possibilities:
- God’s manufacture of humankind was totally incompetent.
- God has entirely different purposes in mind for us…
- God did not make the human mind.
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Eric_Hyom
Guest
We pray to God our Father, so we are the children of God.
God loves each and everyone of us as he loves himself, can God love us more than he loves himself?
God has created us in his image, and we are given the greatest commandments, as our greatest goal.
Because we are created to live by the greatest commandments of love, these commandments also give us the freedom to do good and evil.
God loves each and everyone of us as he loves himself, can God love us more than he loves himself?
God has created us in his image, and we are given the greatest commandments, as our greatest goal.
Because we are created to live by the greatest commandments of love, these commandments also give us the freedom to do good and evil.
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Shike
Guest
I don’t agree with all of your views so it is not necessarily any defect in my reading ability–rather I was speaking my mind.
You are right, life can be really hard and suck sometimes… really suck. But there is always hope (note: I dislike optimists and distance myself from their ideology).
Objectively (also ontologically) life is a gift and should be appreciated… even if we are given the gift of life and tragedy after tragedy happens. I would rather take that chance than to never exist at all. What’s the difference between existence and non-existence? All the world!
I did seriously consider becoming a Franciscan at one point.
I think there is enough pain and suffering here to keep anybody busy who is interested. A poverty in love can be worse than a poverty in anything else. Day in, day out, the same monotonous things happen and it seems like no one cares… and in fact many people do not care. It is sometimes unbearable. But there is hope.
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