Why has Mass attendance declined?

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KatieD said:
There are so many good points made in previous posts. I believe there are several factors in the decline in Mass attendance, and I think an important one is the “watering down” of our faith.

Last week, I was told by a Liturgy Director that it doesn’t matter if someone who is Protestant presents herself for Holy Communion, even if she believes it is just “bread and wine”, the priest has no business reminding us of the guidelines for the reception of Holy Communion, whether a Catholic goes to Confession is a matter of “their own personal guidelines” and it should have absolutely nothing to do with whether they are able to receive the Eucharist, as well as other pearls of wisdom. Is it any wonder that with stuff like this in our parishes, some parishioners believe that attending Mass isn’t important either?
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Showing my ignorance. What does a Liturgy Director do and what are the qualifications?:confused:
 
I believe she leads the planning of Liturgy, everything from Sunday Mass to funeral Masses.
 
I believe she leads the planning of Liturgy, everything from Sunday Mass to funeral Masses. I’m not actually sure what the qualifications are for this position.
 
I have not bothered to read through the first 9 pages of this thread but I’ll give my 2 cents worth to the discussion.

I think a break down in catechesis is the absolute main reason why mass attendence has declined. In Catholic school’s today the religious education is average at best (part of the problem is R.E teachers are usually not practicing their faith) & the ignorance of many Catholics about the faith is alarming. Note here I’m talking from experience about the ineffective methods of evangelisation that exist today, I had a conversion to Christ when I was 15 & my immediate response was a dislusionment regarding my previous ignorance about the faith. Before my conversion I hated going to mass, I hated praying, essentially I wanted to do what I thought what was really important in my life. Why I hated mass, prayer etc was because I had a scarce understanding of what the whole mass meant. For example I didn’t know literally that the eucharist was really the body & blood of Jesus & that you were suppose to receive graces after having received it & what confession was really about & there was little reference to the fact that I had to live out my faith in all aspects of my life, there wasn’t a challenge posed to me to do as such. Truth be told I didn’t know how to go about praying either. I think a large problem is that many priests are focusing on managing parishes rather than being expansion minded and really going out into the community & evangelising people. Youth Ministry needs to be implemented more widely as well.

Materialism & secularisation of society is contributing to people being led away from our rich faith. At the moment people are being presented a big juicy carrot from the world whilst Catholicism is presenting mere mouse droppings in opposition to materialism. Our Catholic faith is so rich, beautiful & fulfilling yet I doubt we are presenting people all of its glory and grandeur it so highly deserves. It would be a mistake to think people had to come to us seek Jesus but rather we should as Catholics go out into the world proclaiming the good news of Christ. We need to plant seeds in the minds of the youth that following Christ is indeed the way, the truth & the life. Amen & Amen! God love you! Zbogom:thumbsup: :grouphug: :byzsoc:
 
JimR-OCDS said:
It wasn’t the Latin Mass per se, that caused the decline prior to the reforms. It wasn’t the vernacular that caused the decline afterward or even today.

Its lack of faith, period.

If the Latin Mass were to return as the mandate, I think young people would join other religions, not the Catholic Church.

I hope and pray we never return to the Pre-Vatican II days!

BTW, I was raised in Pre-Vatican II Catholic Church.

Jim
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I hope and pray we do return to it and I too was raised pre Vatican II.👍 It is interesting that you think young people would join other faiths in that eventuality. My experience with the Traditional mass over the past twenty years has proven just the opposite. The indult Masses that I have attended tend to be full of young people and young families.

I agree though about the lack of faith being a primary cause of the problems the Church is having.
 
Hvaljen_Isus said:
I have not bothered to read through the first 9 pages of this thread but I’ll give my 2 cents worth to the discussion.

I think a break down in catechism’s is the absolute main reason why mass attendance has declined. In Catholic school’s today the religious education is average at best (part of the problem is R.E teachers are usually not practicing their faith) & the ignorance of many Catholics about the faith is alarming. Note here I’m talking from experience about the ineffective methods of evangelisation that exist today, I had a conversion to Christ when I was 15 & my immediate response was a disillusionment regarding my previous ignorance about the faith. Before my conversion I hated going to mass, I hated praying, essentially I wanted to do what I thought what was really important in my life. Why I hated mass, prayer etc was because I had a scarce understanding of what the whole mass meant. For example I didn’t know literally that the Eucharist was really the body & blood of Jesus & that you were suppose to receive graces after having received it & what confession was really about & there was little reference to the fact that I had to live out my faith in all aspects of my life, there wasn’t a challenge posed to me to do as such. Truth be told I didn’t know how to go about praying either. I think a large problem is that many priests are focusing on managing parishes rather than being expansion minded and really going out into the community & evangelizing people. Youth Ministry needs to be implemented more widely as well.

Materialism & secularization of society is contributing to people being led away from our rich faith. At the moment people are being presented a big juicy carrot from the world whilst Catholicism is presenting mere mouse droppings in opposition to materialism. Our Catholic faith is so rich, beautiful & fulfilling yet I doubt we are presenting people all of its glory and grandeur it so highly deserves. It would be a mistake to think people had to come to us seek Jesus but rather we should as Catholics go out into the world proclaiming the good news of Christ. We need to plant seeds in the minds of the youth that following Christ is indeed the way, the truth & the life. Amen & Amen! God love you! Zbogom:thumbsup: :grouphug: :byzsoc:
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A non-homeschooling friend of mine was shocked to have to send her children to CCD. The Catholic School that she sends her children to does not teach the CofCC. She was told that in the new “regional” private catholic (in this case catholic must mean the small “c” as being universal) schools that toooo many of the attendees are non-Catholic and so it was not practical.

Also it is the family that has the first responsibility to teach the children. When the parents were not given the information to teach their children each succeeding generation gets more ignorant of the truth.
 
Not only is it poor Cathechesis, but the outside world is blaring its generally, non-holy messages at us constantly and every day. It’s on the internet, the TV, radio, magazines, newspapers, etc. There was a time when these outlets observed and actually respected the same values we Catholics hold dear. Now that’s all changed.

This constant bombardment is a distraction from the faith and a source of many temptations. By trivializing the faith and actually attacking the Church, the world is now more antagonistic toward all religions while promoting and encouraging deviant, unGodly living.

Set aside some time to read your Bible. Medidate on it. Read with your family and talk about it, especially as it applies to your day to day lives. It is the Word of God, the basis for understanding the world and growing in our spiritual lives. Read Catholic newspapers and magazines to get a Godly view of the world. And spend less time with an unGodly media that celebrates perverse and disobedient people.

God bless,
Ed
 
jmcrae said:
True, that’s a good point. I have mentioned, “Oh, Father says we are to do this,” and people are startled - they say, “And who is he, to tell us how to do this?”

One feels like saying, Um, he’s our parish priest - “boss man” of this little pop-stand.

I think a lot of people are so used to priests bending over backwards for them that they have forgotten that it is the priest who is in charge of the parish - not them.
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I think this is precisely part of the problem for many young people. They see priests who have not shown themselves worthy to be the ‘boss man’ whose opinion in accepted unquestioningly.

And before you tell me off, these are some examples of experiences of people I know:
  1. One man in his 60s who had to listen to sermons from a priest who he watched beat his 12 year old friend unconcious when he was at school.
  2. A female psychologist and mother listening to sermons from a priest who has said several times that mothers who work don’t really love their children (she eventually walked out).
  3. A newly ordained priest telling a church which contained several single parents that bringing their young children to Mass was a sign of ‘disrespect for the Eucharist’. If those parents don’t bring their kids, they can’t go to Mass themselves.
  4. I know several people from a parish who had a priest who abused young boys. People had asked questions, but were told ‘the priest is a man of God and we don’t question his authority’. When they whole thing came out in the open it caused untold harm.
I’m not saying all priests are terrible. The majority are wonderful. But the truth is there ARE bad apples (read the accounts here criticising priests who are perceived as ‘liberal’), and congregations and individuals want there to be accountability, openness and checks and balances. The younger generation look at some of the things that have happened in the Church (Magdalene Laundries for example?) and they see it as largely a result of an unaccountable clergy, and uncritical congregations. And they want a more open and accountable Church.

Not, of course, that I’m saying that those who don’t attend are snowy white, just like the priests who are ordained to serve them aren’t snowy white. But I think we need to acknowledge that the reasons for declining attendence at Mass are partly society’s fault, partly the individual’s fault, and partly the Church’s fault. And you know what else? Partly my fault, and partly all our faults, when we don’t reflect the love and welcome of Christ as we should.
 
I suggest you prayerfully and considerately write a letter to your diocese. Bring up these things. If this is the truth then it needs to be spoken. Don’t be shy about telling what happened. It sounds like you really care, so I encourage you to consider it.

God bless,
Ed
 
lak611 said:
I have a friend who left the Catholic Church because there were too many announcements at Mass and in the bulletin about fund raising, collections, raffles, etc. He said that the Church was all about money and that he wanted no part of it. I have tried to get him to come back, even taken him to Mass at my parish and suggested that he find a different parish that does not push money donations/gambling so much. Nothing has worked so far. I am still praying for him. Unfortunately, he sees the Church as being greedy and only interested in money. Other than prayer, I do not know what else to do or say.
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I have heard that excuse too; and I found that it usually went to one of two things: either there was a real reason, and this was the excuse, or they didn’t really think much of Mass to begin with, and this was the excuse to walk out.

Most people in these threads care about the Mass and about the Church. It might come as a shock, but not everyone feels the same way. Many are not much more than ambivilent about Church and that is not particularly something new; years ago there was both a much greater respect for authority, and a much greater sense of sin and it’s consequences, and those two things worked to keep many people physically in the Church, while mentally somewhat disengaged. We have lost a sense of authority and a sense of sin (and Catholics are by no means the only ones!), and those who had little connection beyond that simply left.
 
I think it’s declined because the “New American” church is not in agreement with the Magisterium. There are many facets of the U.S. Catholic churches that are presented as New Age.:confused: :confused:
 
Eddy said:
Not, of course, that I’m saying that those who don’t attend are snowy white, just like the priests who are ordained to serve them aren’t snowy white. But I think we need to acknowledge that the reasons for declining attendence at Mass are partly society’s fault, partly the individual’s fault, and partly the Church’s fault. And you know what else? Partly my fault, and partly all our faults, when we don’t reflect the love and welcome of Christ as we should.
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Good points.

Obviously, there also has to be a balance, and if the priest is of poor moral character, we need to report that to the appropriate authorities.

We don’t, however, expect moral perfection from the manager of the local Dairy Queen (who may well have children out of wedlock), but if he tells the employees to scrub the floors, they don’t ask him where he gets the gall to tell them to do that, or if he tells the customers that they have to sign out a key to use the bathroom, nobody asks him who gave him the authority to control who goes to the bathroom at his place.

I think what’s missing is the whole sense that the parish priest is supposed to be the “manager” of the parish - that it’s his job to decide who does what, and what needs doing.

If he is of poor moral character, that’s a separate issue. Somehow, we have no trouble discerning between areas of authority in the outside world, independently of people’s moral character.

We need to take that concept and apply it to the local church, and realize that, yes, he may be an imperfect person, and even quite badly flawed, but, he’s the guy in charge.
 
Eddy said:
I think this is precisely part of the problem for many young people. They see priests who have not shown themselves worthy to be the ‘boss man’ whose opinion in accepted unquestioningly.

And before you tell me off, these are some examples of experiences of people I know:
  1. One man in his 60s who had to listen to sermons from a priest who he watched beat his 12 year old friend unconcious when he was at school.
  2. A female psychologist and mother listening to sermons from a priest who has said several times that mothers who work don’t really love their children (she eventually walked out).
  3. A newly ordained priest telling a church which contained several single parents that bringing their young children to Mass was a sign of ‘disrespect for the Eucharist’. If those parents don’t bring their kids, they can’t go to Mass themselves.
  4. I know several people from a parish who had a priest who abused young boys. People had asked questions, but were told ‘the priest is a man of God and we don’t question his authority’. When they whole thing came out in the open it caused untold harm.
I’m not saying all priests are terrible. The majority are wonderful. But the truth is there ARE bad apples (read the accounts here criticising priests who are perceived as ‘liberal’), and congregations and individuals want there to be accountability, openness and checks and balances. The younger generation look at some of the things that have happened in the Church (Magdalene Laundries for example?) and they see it as largely a result of an unaccountable clergy, and uncritical congregations. And they want a more open and accountable Church.

Not, of course, that I’m saying that those who don’t attend are snowy white, just like the priests who are ordained to serve them aren’t snowy white. But I think we need to acknowledge that the reasons for declining attendence at Mass are partly society’s fault, partly the individual’s fault, and partly the Church’s fault. And you know what else? Partly my fault, and partly all our faults, when we don’t reflect the love and welcome of Christ as we should.
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you talk as if you go to mass do you
 
Jerry-Jet said:
At every homily the priest should reinform people that if they die in a state of mortal sin–just one mortal sin–they will go to Hell.

Hear that every homily and I would bet that a small number of people who might drift away from Mass might instead choose to attend.
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If we heard it once in our lifetimes it would be a dramatic improvement over what we have now, it seems!

Anyway, I think it is that people don’t know it is a mortal sin…of course, many probably don’t care, either, as one poster alluded to. Sad to say, the attitude of many is “my 401K is booming, I’m getting laid, life is good!”. And imagine the confusion kids must experience when they come home from Catholic school or CCD and see their parents divorced/remarried or cohabitating.

How to change it? It seems like a case of “which came first, the chicken or the egg”. But we definitely need to stop being wishy-washy on certain things and give straight answers (maybe even bring back mandatory wrestling in seminaries to give some priests a sense of assertiveness). Develop a thick skin when people (who are probably only looking to rationalize their own sins) accuse us of being “judgemental”. Give people opportunities to meet potential spouses and stop pushing “single vocation” and “alternate forms of lifegiving” when people are really looking for spouses.
 
Another thing to think about is that in former days (I caught the tail end of this) Catholics were taught the Catholic Church was the true church. Take that away, and what difference does it make if you attend mass or go to a “variety show” at whatever megachurch is the flavor of the month?
 
Norseman82 said:
Another thing to think about is that in former days (I caught the tail end of this) Catholics were taught the Catholic Church was the true church. Take that away, and what difference does it make if you attend mass or go to a “variety show” at whatever megachurch is the flavor of the month?
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I light of the sex abuse scandals, its difficult for many people to accept, that the Catholic Church is the one true Church.

Don’t get me wrong. I believe the Catholic Church has the full revealed truth. However, I do not believe that other religions are exempt from various levels of truth.

As Pope John Paul II said, all religions have germs of truth.

For me, Christ draws people to himself, through the means that are necessary for that person to grow spiritually, and to whatever level Jesus brings them to.

I believe that the Church is the vehicle to deeper growth, but that is not mine to determine for others, but rather for Christ to determine for each individual.

Lets face it, the Catholic Church provides plenty of justification for people to leave, but at the same time, provides the spiritual richness to feed a person to levels deeper than any other religion.
However, it is Jesus Christ that provides the grace necessary to lead the person to the Church, or at times, away.

Not everyone will find Christ through the Roman Catholic Church. Various circumstances in their experience with the Church, may have provided a permanent road block to spiritual growth in the Church. I really can’t judge whether a person outside the Church is saved or not, nor can I judge their relationship with Jesus. I can merely be happy for them in their relationship with Christ, regardless of where they are.

In light of all this, Mass attendence has to do with faith, nothing more.

Jim
 
Jim, I agree with a lot of your post. Faith is a big thing…EWTN helped mine, but everyone is different. Honest priests on EWTN and other venues have said, “bad priests and preaching have killed many a Catholic. The hurt they instilled by giving bad advice or just not being there is immeasurable”. A few examples beyond the scandal…a priest telling a young woman in confession, who was sorry, she was going to hell because of an abortion and she better pray everyday she doesn’t" (she stopped going in 1977 until recently)
Another woman is told to stay with her abusive husband “because she made her bed” and suffered for decades, parents of suicide victims not being able to bury their child in a Catholic ceremony (thank God that changed) and many other examples of things that turned hearts cold. A priest that gives many talks, Fr. Larry Richards, said, recently that a priest yelling at him in confession and being cranky all the time as a youth, scarred him for years until he met a priest that was different. Now he tries to be the priest he wanted back then.
One last example that shows how others see our faith at times…a caller asked priest on TV if someone ate meat on Friday when they weren’t supposed too, before the rule changed, would they go to hell? He said Yes, it was a mortal sin…I found that hard to swallow since man-made rules change and eating meat can’t be held to the same regard as murder. A non-Catholic and a Catholic hearing that, said, No thank you, if I can go to hell for that, I’ll stick with what I have.
Many “human” aspects of our faith hurt people. Someone abused for years by a priest/nun isn’t going to listen to someone tell them not to take the pill or have sex. It has to come from GRACE. I pray all the time people receive it and feel it and meet people that live the faith with a smile.
 
Lack of reverence is another problem. And a lack of respect in everyday life. Compared to 30 years ago, more people look on others who behave disrespectfully with a lot less discernment. The Bible tells us to be holy in all that we do. Yet how much of what we do can be considered holy?

Guard your eyes from perverse and obscene images.

Guard your ears from profanity and perverse suggestions.

Guard your tongue from using profanity.

Imitate Christ in your daily lives.

By having respect for others and avoiding the obscene, perverse and unholy, we become more sensitive to the Holy Spirit. Do you dress immodestly or shack up or fornicate? These things need to be repented of.

Are you less sensitive to sin in your own life, to sin on television, on the radio or in magazines? Until these things are repented of, and your eyes and ears are returned to hearing God and seeing holy things, it will be difficult to reverence Jesus Christ.

Listen to Catholic radio, read Catholic newspapers, magazines and books. The secular world wants nothing to do with God but there are Catholic resources out there that will allow you to see God’s work being done in the world and that will inform and educate you.

Have Reverence for God and not the things of the world which are temporary and corruptible.

God bless,
Ed
 
debraran said:
Jim, I agree with a lot of your post. Faith is a big thing…EWTN helped mine, but everyone is different. Honest priests on EWTN and other venues have said, “bad priests and preaching have killed many a Catholic. The hurt they instilled by giving bad advice or just not being there is immeasurable”. A few examples beyond the scandal…a priest telling a young woman in confession, who was sorry, she was going to hell because of an abortion and she better pray everyday she doesn’t" (she stopped going in 1977 until recently)
Another woman is told to stay with her abusive husband “because she made her bed” and suffered for decades, parents of suicide victims not being able to bury their child in a Catholic ceremony (thank God that changed) and many other examples of things that turned hearts cold. A priest that gives many talks, Fr. Larry Richards, said, recently that a priest yelling at him in confession and being cranky all the time as a youth, scarred him for years until he met a priest that was different. Now he tries to be the priest he wanted back then.
One last example that shows how others see our faith at times…a caller asked priest on TV if someone ate meat on Friday when they weren’t supposed too, before the rule changed, would they go to hell? He said Yes, it was a mortal sin…I found that hard to swallow since man-made rules change and eating meat can’t be held to the same regard as murder. A non-Catholic and a Catholic hearing that, said, No thank you, if I can go to hell for that, I’ll stick with what I have.
Many “human” aspects of our faith hurt people. Someone abused for years by a priest/nun isn’t going to listen to someone tell them not to take the pill or have sex. It has to come from GRACE. I pray all the time people receive it and feel it and meet people that live the faith with a smile.
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Like I said, the Catholic Church provides plenty of fuel for driving people away. For some, its too difficult of a pill to swallow, to return, especially if they found a real relationship with Jesus, outside of the Church.

Others like myself, found the richness of the Catholic Church, greater than her sins. It was easy for me to return, but it was Christ that led me back. It is Him who I follow, not religion.

Jim
 
I agree, when I came back, it was because of Mary, Jesus and John Paul ll’s death combined. (great grace and maturity helps a bit too) As long as human beings run things, religion will never be perfect, there will always be mistakes and hurts, but Jesus is perfect. Follow him, use common sense and you’ll be fine.
 
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