Why has Mass attendance declined?

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My parish is pretty big. Now that Confirmation classes have ended and summer started there are a LOT of empty pews. It never used to be like that. I noticed that most of the people who go to mass are over 25 or are under 11 years old. I maybe see 6 people around my age in mass.
 
Yes, no doubt this is common in most old urban center. One of the further challenges is that the parish schools which once helped unite a community are not viable in most of the old neighborhoods any longer (especially at the high cost) while in the suburban parishes where parents might be able to afford such schooling, there are few parish schools. Instead, everyone takes advantage of quality public schooling which is, afterall, free.
Very true. For the most part, in the old neighbourhoods that do have parish schools, in some cases 95% of the students are non-Catholic. My cousins who all have children go to suburban parishes. None of them have sent their children to the parish school. The public schools are excellent, so they did not wish to spend the money on the parish school.
However, what is happenning in some major cities is that as one immigrant population moves out another moves in. So, for instance, a historically Slavic parish might now be predominantly Mexican. It may even have Masses in three languages: one for the old parishioners who still return, one for the new ethnic immigrants, one for the other English language speakers.
A few parishes that used to be German or Irish now are predominantly Hispanic. But there have not been enough Hispanics moving into the parish to offset the loss of the Germans and Irish.
Or, due to regentrification, some of the parishes have received renewal through an influx of young people and their earning power.
This has not happened yet. The Tremont and Ohio City neighbourhoods in Cleveland have a lot of new housing, upscale restaurants, art galleries, etc., but the wealthy people moving in have not joined the churches in the neighbourhood, Catholic or Protestant. The new residents do not appear to be religious people, as least based on the continuing decline of all the neighbourhood churches.
 
My parish is pretty big. Now that Confirmation classes have ended and summer started there are a LOT of empty pews. It never used to be like that. I noticed that most of the people who go to mass are over 25 or are under 11 years old. I maybe see 6 people around my age in mass.
That is a common gap. Teenagers to early adulthood when they start families they are off exploring the world, college, etc… Some are lost but many do trickle back.
 
Point being? Why are you anxious to show that Catholics are having problems? Wouldn’t be because of subtle inference concerning the N.O. liturgy, would it? Maybe not. But I’ve seen it proposed by a number of traditionists, of whose membership you are also affiliated.
That’s right, attribute sinister motives to me because I actually offer some data. :rolleyes:

If you have some other data that covers all Protestant believers, not just individual denominations, then by all means offer it. Then maybe somebody will accuse you of being anxious to prove something too.

Or you could just put your hands over your ears and walk around saying “La La La La…”

BTW, your Baptist article doesn’t even address the question at hand.

BTW #2, I happen to attend the N.O. Mass exclusively. Kinda shoots down your little conspiracy theory, doesn’t it?

Attacking the messenger is always an act of desperation.
 
This has not happened yet. The Tremont and Ohio City neighbourhoods in Cleveland have a lot of new housing, upscale restaurants, art galleries, etc., but the wealthy people moving in have not joined the churches in the neighbourhood, Catholic or Protestant. The new residents do not appear to be religious people, as least based on the continuing decline of all the neighbourhood churches.
Sometimes the parish has to create a little spark of their own and offer something unique to attract them there. If the parish has particularly good liturgy or a dynamic program for young adults, then it tends to grow as the word gets out and a buzz starts.
 
Attacking the messenger is always an act of desperation.
If the shoe fits, Voci …

Read again where I did assert, I asked. And I also stated, “maybe not.” So who is being judgmental and attacking the messenger?

I ask again, why the statistics, especially since you had two separate posts on them? You did not answer.
 
If the shoe fits, Voci …

Read again where I did assert, I asked. And I also stated, “maybe not.” So who is being judgmental and attacking the messenger?

I ask again, why the statistics, especially since you had two separate posts on them? You did not answer.
Yeah, maybe not. Maybe I don’t beat my wife after all either.

Why the statistics? Because truth is better than untruth. Knowledge is better than ignorance. Because people keep pointing to the secular culture as a reason, and yet as I said (three times now, I’m really pushing my agenda), the Protestants swim in the very same secular culture as the Catholics, and yet the two groups had a very different experience during the years in question. So there’s clearly something else involved, something that made Catholic attendance drop, and didn’t make Protestant attendance drop during the same period.

Any ideas what that something could have been?
 
Any ideas what that something could have been?
I’ve decided to offer my own thoughts on the matter. What uniquely Catholic things may have caused the drastic decline in Catholic attendance while Protestant attendance remained steady? I propose two things as a discussion starter, which surfaced in the Catholic world of the 60s/70s:
  1. Loss of the 3 S’es. Loss of Seriousness. Loss of Sacredness. Loss of Solemnity.
  2. Sex. Humanae Vitae. Rejection of the Church’s stand on birth control.
 
What uniquely Catholic things may have caused the drastic decline in Catholic attendance while Protestant attendance remained steady?
OK: I’ll take a couple wild guesses…
Look at the church’s stand on birth control and abortion…
both of these were not widely available to the public before the 1960’s. So after they beceme available, around the same time as V2, it may have been a factor.

I also think that the protestants entertain and educate their youth better than Catholics do. I’m not sure how true this was in the old days. I can’t count the times my kids have asked to attend their protestant friends churches instead of going to mass. Their youth activities, playing air hockey and laser tag are so much more fun that sitting still in mass. And they come home knowing a verse or 2 of scripture. Nowdays, form what I’ve seen, the protestant services involve powerpoint presentations and snacks during the service. How can you compete with that? My kids go to mass because we force them, not because they want to be there.
I also think the CCD education program needs an overhaul, but I’m not sure how it should be done, and I think I’m over my limit for thread hijacking…😃
 
I’m 58 and I lived through this period of decline in church attendance. The decline has continued even in recent years, which is interesting.

What has always bothered me is the rapid rate of change in the rubrics of the Mass. Not only did so many things change, but they were continuously changing, sometimes back and forth.

The last bishop tore out all the crucifixes in church, and they were replaced with this Jesus figure with both arms raised, as if he were flying off the cross.

I don’t want to distract myself here with that, but that image is not scriptural, you know? They took the crucifixes down and put that up to fill the hole that was left.

My complaint is that no one, in any parish, any place, has ever asked ME what I would like to see in church. I think pride and vanity are running rampant here, with lots of “experts” changing things to suit themselves.

Same goes with arrangements of things around the altar. Lots of nit picky changes, all the time. In recent years, we’ve had displays of bare branches (abundant outdoors, just a few steps away) to REMIND us what season it is, I guess.

There are just whole categories of things that have changed, with lots of shallow rationalizations. We used to kneel during the consecration of the Mass (Eucharistic Prayer) and more recently we’ve had to stand, even when the rules said we were supposed to stand.

Our last bishop (again) wanted to do everything HIS way (no (name removed by moderator)ut) and so that’s what we were told. When people kneel during the Eucharistic prayer, I think they get easily distracted and are probably not paying attention. So, the real reason for them to stand is to keep them more alert, but the priest won’t admit that, which is a whole different problem.

I think the changes come for the same reason, to keep off balance and more alert during Mass. The last bishop complained that the people weren’t really more involved with the introduction of the English Mass. Lots of trivial stuff was invented, like having “altar dressers” who spread the cloths over the altar after the prayers of the faithful, and then removed them after communion – you know, just busy work to get more people involved – with no spirituality or symbolism involved, just busy work.

Sermons became homilies, pulpits became ambos, beautiful decorations were dismantled, kneelers banished, tabernacles disappeared. People were told these things were “bad” when they were “good” for so long.

It’s just an endless list of nonsense that wears people down. And, then there’s the whole dumbing-down part of it too. If there’s a few kids, now we have to listen to these watered–down, candy cane Eucharistic prayers.

Don’t forget the backdrop, of the loss of thousands of professed religious sisters, who were vital (in local churches anyway) to maintaining the beautiful altars and liturgies, and keeping kids catechized.

And amongst all of our cultural banalities, locally there’s the rule from the pews of not having “long” sermons or of violating the 60-minute rule for masses. A sister who was involved in missionary work in the Philippines for over 25 years was scheduled to speak at Mass. Right off, she was told by the rectory clerk “to keep it short and sweet” which she indignantly reminded us of, when she began to speek. Although she had risked her life and dedicated her life to service and had stood up to communist rebels, she was told to keep it short. The whole thing was so uncoordinated, they didn’t even take up the collection for her order after communion. She must have left empty handed from this reportedly very orthodox parish.

The short answer – the bishops and priests have done everything they possibly can to trivialize the worship. And, witness the recent move to have people bow or genuflect while coming up to communion, to try to “Restore” what has been violently thrown away. People say that rituals are empty and meaningless – they’re not. They help people to control themselves and to control their thinking.
 
I’ve decided to offer my own thoughts on the matter. What uniquely Catholic things may have caused the drastic decline in Catholic attendance while Protestant attendance remained steady? I propose two things as a discussion starter, which surfaced in the Catholic world of the 60s/70s:

Sex. Humanae Vitae. Rejection of the Church’s stand on birth control.
This would make sense because Protestants accepted birth control since the 1930’s. Nothing changed in the 1960’s-1970’s for them in this regard.
 
May I beg that this thread PLEASE not be turned into a “traditionalist” vs. “modernist” debate?

I’ve already had one thread shut down this week because this happened. I’m going to be pretty mad if it happens again.

I certainly have no problem with people posting their theory that the Mass has been “dumbed down” or “has clung to staid traditions.” These are very legitimate opinions and there’s probably truth in both viewpoints.

But please don’t fight about it and try to prove each other wrong.

Thanks so much!

BTW, VociMike, the non-Catholic (AKA Protestant) churches that are growing are those that are so non-traditional as to be hardly recognizable as “church.” Many Protestant magazines and radio programs conclude that people are looking not for “tradition” but for “innovation.”

E.g., if you were to attend the megachurch in my city, you would sit at a table sipping latte and watching a videotaped sermon on overhead screens. Or you would attend a live rock concert, followed by a videotaped sermon. At any time, you would be free to get up and walk around, chat, or leave.

All of this is called the “worship experience,” and there are several of them every Saturday and Sunday.

And you take your children to several different age-specific areas for separate “worship experiences.”

Another concern of Protestants is that in many churches wher numerical growth is happening is that growth isn’t occurring because of converts (non-believers coming to believe in Jesus), but rather, because of attrition from other churches, including Catholic churches. (This is also referred to as “sheep stealing.”) This should be of concern to Catholic and non-Catholic Christians, as we are supposed to be preaching the Gospel, not growing a large “country club” by attracting people away from the other “country clubs” with bigger and better “programs.”
 
Voci Mike and his guys are correct: Mass attendance has declined because American Catholics have become increasingly “Protestant”. Why bother going to Mass if you don’t believe in the Church, and what she teaches? You don’t expect people that hate football to show up to the games on Sunday do you? Then why expect lapsed Catholics, who hate the Church, to show up to Mass on Sundays?
 
At every homily the priest should reinform people that if they die in a state of mortal sin–just one mortal sin–they will go to Hell.

Hear that every homily and I would bet that a small number of people who might drift away from Mass might instead choose to attend.
 
At every homily the priest should reinform people that if they die in a state of mortal sin–just one mortal sin–they will go to Hell.

Hear that every homily and I would bet that a small number of people who might drift away from Mass might instead choose to attend.
It’s hard to say.

I know lots of people who would use even that as an excuse not to attend Mass - they’d say that the big bad meanie in the pulpit was scaring them. :rolleyes:
 
I am currently in the process of moving from CT to AZ
I also am a revert
For a short amount of time I’m currently attending the same parish I attended a boy.
I am amazed by the attendance in this old parish.
I thought the parish I came from was pretty well attended.
But this parish is remarkable
Every mass is full and there are 6 masses on the week-end and the Church is fairly large
I don’t rembember this many people when I was young
and this Church was the only Catholic Church In town.
There are now three
What are they doing right?
 
Well, if we go back 1000 years or more, people had little things to do at home. Look at where we are now - little trip to the Space for few millions dollars, to Disneyland, to Bahamas…ahhh, to movies…

It is more about the changes in our daily life styles that affect our faith.
It’s interesting you mentioned that. I’ve heard many priests talk about foreign missions. If you’re homily isn’t at least half an hour, people feel cheated. After Mass, they spend hours fellowshipping, and living as a family in Christ. I think worldly distractions and temptations are a big part this culture’s problems.

If we see another 911 or worse, we’ll definitely see a spike in church attendance across the board. If a serious economic depression strikes, I think the CC will be at the forefront of church growth.

Do most dioceses where the TLM is available have exceptionally high Mass attendance? The one near me does not, but it has a faithful following.
 
Do most dioceses where the TLM is available have exceptionally high Mass attendance? The one near me does not, but it has a faithful following.
There is one only about 8 miles from where I live. It does not have exceptional attendance. My parish has about 30% attendance out of the number of people officially on their roster. My pastor always puts the number of envelopes collected in each bulletin, along with the total number of families and the $ amount collected. Again, I fault the culture for the decline in Mass attendance, not the type of Mass.
 
One of the biggest factors has been an the pedophile scandal and refusal to have more transparency afterwards. It appears there is even less transparency than before. This cuts across all issues of all sides and no real efforts have been made to try to regain that credibility. Many also see a scapegoat effort (which can be nasty) to try to deflect any real discussion from this.
Actual studies show that it has had little or no impact.
 
Probably:
  1. families breaking up:(
  2. not enough concentration on the Sacraments…too many ‘touchy feely’ sermons
  3. society doesn’t see the ‘point’ of mass
*The Eucharist as the focal point isn’t being taught properly, I think, in many parishes. If people felt that they needed to be spiritually ‘fed’…weekly or more…they would attend more. But, they don’t fully understand the beauty of attending mass.
 
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