Why hasn't Benedict XVI celebrated mass ad orientem?

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reading B16’s spirit of the liturgy among others*,* B16 says that a return to the apostolic tradition of the priest and faithful facing a common direction is advantageous.

by turning east towards the rising sun during the eucharistic prayer, B16 says: "We are celebrating with the cosmos, with the world. It’s the direction of the future of the world, of our history represented in the sun and in the cosmical realities."

so my question is, why hasn’t B16 celebrated mass outside of st. peters ad orientem? is it because no bishops during the eucharistic synod thought to change it? is mass versus populum here to stay or does he plan to make the transition gradually?
 
oat soda:
reading B16’s spirit of the liturgy among others*,* B16 says that a return to the apostolic tradition of the priest and faithful facing a common direction is advantageous.

by turning east towards the rising sun during the eucharistic prayer, B16 says: "We are celebrating with the cosmos, with the world. It’s the direction of the future of the world, of our history represented in the sun and in the cosmical realities."

so my question is, why hasn’t B16 celebrated mass outside of st. peters ad orientem? is it because no bishops during the eucharistic synod thought to change it? is mass versus populum here to stay or does he plan to make the transition gradually?
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It’s sad, but I think it’s because of politics. I DO believe that His Holiness WILL celebrate the Mass ad orientem, and not only that, but I think that he will celebrate a TLM in the near future too.

Just my opinion, but he does seem to be infusing little bits of Tradition back into the Papacy that was missing during JP II’s pontificate.
 
i did find this:
In one interesting aside, Fessio noted that in his homily at his April 24 installation Mass, Benedict said that his program as pope would not be to do his own will, but to listen together with the whole church to the will of God. Fessio said he approached the pope and said that many people regarded the rather traditional views on liturgy expressed in Ratzinger’s book The Spirit of the Liturgy not as the pope’s own ideas, but as the teaching of the church. The point was to urge the pope to implement those ideas, which include wider use of Latin and celebrating the Mass in the ad orientem posture, facing East, with the priest’s back to the congregation. Fessio said **Benedict XVI heard him, but did not respond. **
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maybe he hasn’t made up his mind.
 
oat soda:
i did find this: maybe he hasn’t made up his mind.
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Or maybe, and heres an idea, He wants to do so, but is waiting for the opportune moment as he doesn’t want too much of an uproar. Personally I can’t wait to serve the Novus in Latin and ad orientem.
 
He will, and soon. The church needs a good shot of B16 and the Cardinals would not have elected him if they opposed his views on the spirit if the Liturgy.
Timing is of the essence but I cant wait.
I predict the Holy Mass will be celebrated as the 'Nervos Ordo BUT in latin, with only the readings, Intercessions, Homily and Gospel in the vernacular, The Gospel will be sung. Papa will face east.
There will be the predictable reaction by the ageing distorters of Vatican II and I think Pope Benedict XVI is taking that into consideration.
God Bless
 
While I hope he does both, I personally wouldn’t hold my breath. Even if the Pope wants to celebrate in that fashion, I think given the politics and collegial spirit that permeates the upper levels of the Church, I don’t think he would go against the wishes of the majority of his advisors. Remember, in recent meetings, the Traditional Mass the ad orientum posture and Latin usage in the Novis Ordo were not given any serious discussion or consideration at all.
 
I believe Pope Benedict will at some point celebrate ad orientem in a Novus Ordo Mass, but I think it will happen quietly at some chapel or parish which still has an altar attached to the wall. He celebrated a Tridentine on May 8, 1999 in Germany. I think we will see him do the same, as Pope, and I think we will see him do a Latin Novus Ordo, ad orientem. A one time deal is enough to show that this is a valid way to celebrate Mass.

On a sidenote, I will say that what I find encouraging are that some of the younger priests in my diocese have learned to do the Latin Novus Ordo with an ad orientem posture, and they celebrate this way when they have opportunities. At our Call to Holiness conference, a newly ordained priest did this in the temporary adoration chapel where several Masses were taking place daily. There are several orthodox young men in the pipe line and as these young men become pastors, I believe we will see more of the Latin Novus Ordo’s celebrated ad orientem. It is just going to take time. Watching any one of these young priests do the Mass is an awesome experience because of their profoundly visible reverence, such as stalling for long periods during and after elevation (prolonged genuflect). This really drives the point of “Real Presence” home.

Here is a picture - albeit low quality and blurred, but the only one I have. The chapel was pretty much empty, with the exception of a few souls because few realized it was happening. The chapel was jammed once people discovered it later.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
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Dropper:
It’s sad, but I think it’s because of politics. I DO believe that His Holiness WILL celebrate the Mass ad orientem, and not only that, but I think that he will celebrate a TLM in the near future too.

Just my opinion, but he does seem to be infusing little bits of Tradition back into the Papacy that was missing during JP II’s pontificate.
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I feel the same way, but I’m sure that privatley he celebrates mass ad orientem.
 
There is an ancient Papal privledge that exists where the Pope may celebrate the Liturgy Versus Populum thus he may never celebrate ad orientem save in St. Peters where the priest or Bishop celebrating at the High Altar is facing east when celebrating the mass versus populum.
 
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mosher:
There is an ancient Papal privledge that exists where the Pope may celebrate the Liturgy Versus Populum thus he may never celebrate ad orientem save in St. Peters where the priest or Bishop celebrating at the High Altar is facing east when celebrating the mass versus populum.
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huh?
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
. It is just going to take time. Watching any one of these young priests do the Mass is an awesome experience because of their profoundly visible reverence, such as stalling for long periods during and after elevation (prolonged genuflect). This really drives the point of “Real Presence” home.
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You’re gonna have to help me out here…how does a longer genuflection “drive home the point of real presence”…
 
I doubt B16 is going to do anything because of politics. Also, as much as I consider myself a Fessio girl, he’s not the pope. While I hope to see it restored, I believe the Holy Spirit is guiding Pope Benedict in this matter and that he will do this in his reign if it’s the Holy Spirit’s urging for it to be at this time.
 
FromMi,

If you hurry through something, at times it may seem that you don’t care about it.

A Longer genuflection after the Elevations will bring a deeper respect from the priest, and will carry to the people. The same with a longer elevation.

Its my humble opinion that if I see a priest hold the Blessed Sacrament up for more than a couple seconds, he is honoring it and not trying to rush it.

Jesus is important to him in these ways, thats what was meant.
 
I see your thought on this. I was curious as to that myself. Anyone have an answer?

My thoughts are maybe although he is facing away from the people, thats the whole point of Ad Orientem? We all face in the same direction? Towards God (tabernacle, vertical prayer) not towards each other (horizontal prayer)?

Maybe though St. Pete’s faces the way it does so that JEsus can come in the door someday from the east? haha.

Also, i’ve just thought that maybe its like the Muslims who face towards Mecca (usually east) maybe we face towards Rome? (highly unlikely, but i’m just speculatin a little http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
Wow, they even used kneelers as a makeshift communion rail. The trend is going in the direction towrds tradition, just much needs to happen at the upper levels. What is amazing is despite this mass being in a conference room, one can see the reverence.
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Lux_et_veritas:
I believe Pope Benedict will at some point celebrate ad orientem in a Novus Ordo Mass, but I think it will happen quietly at some chapel or parish which still has an altar attached to the wall. He celebrated a Tridentine on May 8, 1999 in Germany. I think we will see him do the same, as Pope, and I think we will see him do a Latin Novus Ordo, ad orientem. A one time deal is enough to show that this is a valid way to celebrate Mass.

On a sidenote, I will say that what I find encouraging are that some of the younger priests in my diocese have learned to do the Latin Novus Ordo with an ad orientem posture, and they celebrate this way when they have opportunities. At our Call to Holiness conference, a newly ordained priest did this in the temporary adoration chapel where several Masses were taking place daily. There are several orthodox young men in the pipe line and as these young men become pastors, I believe we will see more of the Latin Novus Ordo’s celebrated ad orientem. It is just going to take time. Watching any one of these young priests do the Mass is an awesome experience because of their profoundly visible reverence, such as stalling for long periods during and after elevation (prolonged genuflect). This really drives the point of “Real Presence” home.

Here is a picture - albeit low quality and blurred, but the only one I have. The chapel was pretty much empty, with the exception of a few souls because few realized it was happening. The chapel was jammed once people discovered it later.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Click to expand...
 
40.png
JNB:
Wow, they even used kneelers as a makeshift communion rail. The trend is going in the direction towrds tradition, just much needs to happen at the upper levels. What is amazing is despite this mass being in a conference room, one can see the reverence.
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If you thought this was reverence, you should have seen the larger conference room with several hundred in there during Benediction the one evening, and during Holy Mass.

One way to get a young priest to be open to serving communion to people on their knees, and to serve a Mass ad orientem is to tell him as a seminarian that he cannot do these things.

That priest is the son of the deacon, who is blurred in the same picture (to the right). Father and son, serving at Mass, but it is the son who is the “father”.

:clapping:
 
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frommi:
You’re gonna have to help me out here…how does a longer genuflection “drive home the point of real presence”…
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I know from personal experience. I spent a life time going to Mass where the host was barely elevated and so quickly did it go down that you could not utter the words, “My God and My All” before the priest already had the chalice in hand. I think I daydreamed much through consecration for many years. No change in tone, no bells, just droning in a level, somewhat speedy tone, and a quick rise of the host before it drops.

Then, I went to Assumption Grotto and God used the priest as an instrument to pull me deeply in. My first weekday Mass at Assumption Grotto was when Fr. Perrone was the celebrant. He does highly reverent Masses. When he bends over to say the words of consecration, he pauses, then lowers his voice and slows the pace. Then he elevates the host very high above his head and holds it before slowly lowering.

All of this caused a bit of a momentary shock for me because it was so unlike anything I had ever seen a priest do. He drew me right into the moment by the change of tone, pace, and elevation which was so different for me. It got my attention.

I’ve been assisting at his Masses for 8 months now. And this effect has not changed. I went back for one Mass at my old parish and consecration was done before I could blink. It was still valid, but it is my belief that reverence emanating from a priest aids the faithful in their interior reverence.

An older priest at Ss. Cyril & Methodius, Fr. Val, had the same effect on me the first time I seen him, and it still does after many Masses. When a priest leads the reverence band-wagon, it catches on. It simply communicates that he himself believes with his entire being that this IS the Body and Blood of Christ. True that we can never know what is in someone’s heart. But, I believe that God can use others as an instrument to get us to reflect on just how deeply we believe it is truly Jesus up there on the altar.
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
I’ve been assisting at his Masses for 8 months now. And this effect has not changed.
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just curious… in what capacity?

and…

who were the Priest/Deacon, son/father ??

and…

Fr John Ricardo likens Adoration to a continuation of the Elevation… except that we don’t have to finish Mass, leave the parking lot and go on about our business… we can stay in Adoration as long as possible.
 
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JNB:
Wow, they even used kneelers as a makeshift communion rail. The trend is going in the direction towrds tradition, just much needs to happen at the upper levels. What is amazing is despite this mass being in a conference room, one can see the reverence.
Click to expand...
May I ask upon what you base the assertion that the “trend is going in the direction towards (sic) tradition” (and that’s small “t” tradition)? I’ve been a Catholic for 17 years and worshipped in a lot of parishes (MOST abuse free, a handful with rampant abuse) and I’ve yet to see anyone attempt to kneel for communion. This is an assertion I hear a lot from “traditionalists,” that the “trend” is going “back to” tradition (why the need for the adjective is beyond me, “Catholic” should be enough for anyone). Now, I personally wouldn’t mind kneeling (I did all the time as an Anglican), but I don’t see a trend to bring it back. I really think people should be careful lest they overexagerate. The truly “radical” traditionalists think the trend is running to the opposite: that we’re all going to hell in a clown mass basket.
 
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