Why hasn't the Pope celebrated a TLM

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belgianwaffles9

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I’ve been wondering why, a year after Summorum Pontificum, Pope Benedict XVI hasn’t yet celebrated mass in the Extraordinary form.

He has celebrated it in the past, as this amazing video clearly shows (cathcon.blogspot.com/2008/07/pope-celebrated-latin-mass.html)), but he has yet to celebrate one as pope.

I know that he is probably holding off for fear of alienating less traditional Catholics. And i also like how he has been slowly adding more reverence and tradition to his celebrations of the mass.

I read in one interview or a magazine somewhere that it was considered in Rome to be “inevitable” that Pope Benedict would eventually celebrate Mass in the Extraordinary Form. How long do you think it will be, and why the wait? What do you think he is waiting for?

Furthermore, how do you think he will do it when he does? A big solemn papal Mass in St Peters on Easter or Christmas or something, or a low, private mass?

(I am in no way unhappy or dissapointed with the pope; i was just wondering as to the timing of his “inevitable” TLM)
 
I don’t think he ever will celebrate the EF himself, to underline that the OF is and will continue to be just that, the ordinary form. If he would celebrate the EF, it could be interpreted in the way that he thinks we should do away with all of the liturgical reform and go back to how everything was before the council. But the fact is, there was a council that wanted a reform of the liturgy, and the way the Church interpreted the council was by introducing the 1969 Missal. My interpretation of the letter accompanying SP is that the pope wants to solve two specific problems that rose with the introduction of the 1969 Missal:
  1. To reconcile with those that still are attracted to the older form. Instead of argue with them and try to convince them to use the new Missal, let them continue to use the old provided they accept the validity and holiness of the new.
"It is a matter of coming to an interior reconciliation in the heart of the Church. Looking back over the past, to the divisions which in the course of the centuries have rent the Body of Christ, one continually has the impression that, at critical moments when divisions were coming about, not enough was done by the Church’s leaders to maintain or regain reconciliation and unity. One has the impression that omissions on the part of the Church have had their share of blame for the fact that these divisions were able to harden. This glance at the past imposes an obligation on us today: to make every effort to unable for all those who truly desire unity to remain in that unity or to attain it anew.
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  1. Admittingly, there have been abuses with celebrations according to the Missal of Paul VI, and the precence of reverently celebrated Masses according to the 1962 Missal will hopefully help to shape the Ordinary Form into what it was meant to be.
For that matter, the two Forms of the usage of the Roman Rite can be mutually enriching: new Saints and some of the new Prefaces can and should be inserted in the old Missal. The “Ecclesia Dei” Commission, in contact with various bodies devoted to the usus antiquior, will study the practical possibilities in this regard. The celebration of the Mass according to the Missal of Paul VI will be able to demonstrate, more powerfully than has been the case hitherto, the sacrality which attracts many people to the former usage.
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Additionally, I think he also wants to simply conserve the older form, in order it not to be totally forgotten.

I think it is quite obvious that the pope’s way of improving the liturgy is through the “reform of the reform”, not by un-doing the reform. Some obvious examples are the introductions of the central altar cross ad versus populum celebrations, communion kneelers and traditional, beautiful vestments at the papal Masses.
 
How would a celebration of the TLM be considered as “un-doing” the reform? Well, yes, there are people who will think that, but I believe it’s even positive that they THINK that, because thay way they’ll realize that what their learnt in the 70s flower-power cathequesis was WRONG.
 
WH1988 said:
How would a celebration of the TLM be considered as “un-doing” the reform? Well, yes, there are people who will think that, but I believe it’s even positive that they THINK that, because thay way they’ll realize that what their learnt in the 70s flower-power cathequesis was WRONG.
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As my daughter says “baby steps”. Those attached to the OF should not be treated like we were at the “great change” as I now call it. A more organized way of bring them into a more reverent Mass will be better accepted.

May Papa B XVI have a long life to see this through in an organized way.
 
KathleenElsie said:
As my daughter says “baby steps”. Those attached to the OF should not be treated like we were at the “great change” as I now call it. A more organized way of bring them into a more reverent Mass will be better accepted.

May Papa B XVI have a long life to see this through in an organized way.
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I agree with you, but an esporadic celebration of the Extraordinary Form does not contradict the baby steps strategy.
 
belgianwaffles9 said:
I’ve been wondering why, a year after Summorum Pontificum, Pope Benedict XVI hasn’t yet celebrated mass in the Extraordinary form.

He has celebrated it in the past, as this amazing video clearly shows (cathcon.blogspot.com/2008/07/pope-celebrated-latin-mass.html)), but he has yet to celebrate one as pope.

I know that he is probably holding off for fear of alienating less traditional Catholics.
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Perhaps he has wisely noted the firestorm that he every move seems to create within the traditionalist camp. He has proven to be a very politcally savvy Pope.

Like the perfect concert, he seems to know how to give people just enough to leave them wanting more. 👍
 
I believe the Pope may offer the Mass and even introduce some innovations to it in order to “show continuity” or some such thing.

He will also do it in order to make the Novus Ordo more visually continuous with the TLM.

I don’t think that strategy will work, but I do think he’ll try it.

In either case, he asked us all at his inaugural mass , “pray for me that I may not flee for fear of the wolves.”

For a Pope to ask for that, says several things, There are wolves in the Vatican that threaten the Pope and that the Pope knows that his courage may not be up to the tasks that he is aware of needing to be done.

But as Fr. Malachi Martin said about JPII, '… he’s afraid they’ll kill him. Let them kill him. He’ll be another martyr for the Church, and the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church."

Tough advice, but we should all be praying for the grace necessary for the Holy Father and for us.
 
belgianwaffles9 said:
I know that he is probably holding off for fear of alienating less traditional Catholics.
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How would Pope Benedict celebrating the Extraordinary Form of the Mass alienate “less traditional Catholics.” Why is there always an “us vs. them” mentality in regards to the celebration of the liturgy? Honestly, I really, really just don’t get it!!!
 
Why hasn’t Pope Benedict celebrated one of the Eastern Liturgies? Pope John Paul II did that frequently.
 
bpbasilphx said:
Why hasn’t Pope Benedict celebrated one of the Eastern Liturgies? Pope John Paul II did that frequently.
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Actually, that is also a good question! I think, on the one hand, it was more expected from John Paul, being an Eastern European, even if from a strongly Catholic nation. Furthermore, the highlight of his papacy was his struggle against communism, which was centered around Byzantine Rite countries. I think he had extra reasons, then, to celebrate the Byzantine Liturgy.

I would very much like to see Pope Benedict celebrate a Byzantine DL. And actually, i wouldnt be surprised if he did, and if the Ecumenical Patriarch were there. They seem to be becoming close friends, and this might be a good way to show goodwill towards the Orthodox.
Timothysis said:
How would Pope Benedict celebrating the Extraordinary Form of the Mass alienate “less traditional Catholics.” Why is there always an “us vs. them” mentality in regards to the celebration of the liturgy? Honestly, I really, really just don’t get it!!!
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Because there are those less traditional Catholics who would interpret it as an “us vs them” declaration if the Pope celebrated a TLM.
 
Timothysis said:
How would Pope Benedict celebrating the Extraordinary Form of the Mass alienate “less traditional Catholics.” Why is there always an “us vs. them” mentality in regards to the celebration of the liturgy? Honestly, I really, really just don’t get it!!!
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Simply because there are many both in the laity and the clergy that loathe and despise the traditional mass in any application. The outright refusal by certain bishops and cardinals to even allow it to be celebrated in their areas is ample proof of that.

That I feel is the reason he has held back, for fear of what these bishops, some of whom are very powerful would do. Some of them have proven over the years to be quite indifferent to what Rome says on any issue .
 
One thing to remember:

Benedict XVI is the pope of the ENTIRE Church, not just one faction (alas!) of her.
 
I think it’s actually because when he was a cardinal, he could celebrate the EF and it was simply a Pontifical Mass.

As Pope, it would be a Solemn High Papal Mass, which using the EF rubrics, involves all manner of pomp and ceremony-the key is that it involves many of the Vatican military units and such that no longer exist. If there are no longer such groups that are called for in the rubrics of the Papal Mass…how can he celebrate it? I bet he wants to, but doesn’t want to re-form the superfluous papal guard units(they had a name, I can’t remember) that were all merged into the Swiss Guard(which did exist before, but now it is the only one).
 
muffinmojo said:
I think it’s actually because when he was a cardinal, he could celebrate the EF and it was simply a Pontifical Mass.

As Pope, it would be a Solemn High Papal Mass, which using the EF rubrics, involves all manner of pomp and ceremony-the key is that it involves many of the Vatican military units and such that no longer exist. If there are no longer such groups that are called for in the rubrics of the Papal Mass…how can he celebrate it? I bet he wants to, but doesn’t want to re-form the superfluous papal guard units(they had a name, I can’t remember) that were all merged into the Swiss Guard(which did exist before, but now it is the only one).
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I did not think about this aspect of the situation. It would mean the reorganization of the units that were disbanded. It could take a couple of years to do this.
 
bpbasilphx said:
One thing to remember:

Benedict XVI is the pope of the ENTIRE Church, not just one faction (alas!) of her.
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Amen to that.

I think that Pope Benedict has been very judicious, with regard to how he moves things in a, perhaps, more traditional direction.

He has proven to be quite politically savvy.
 
belgianwaffles9 said:
I’ve been wondering why, a year after Summorum Pontificum, Pope Benedict XVI hasn’t yet celebrated mass in the Extraordinary form.

He has celebrated it in the past, as this amazing video clearly shows (cathcon.blogspot.com/2008/07/pope-celebrated-latin-mass.html)), but he has yet to celebrate one as pope.

I know that he is probably holding off for fear of alienating less traditional Catholics. And i also like how he has been slowly adding more reverence and tradition to his celebrations of the mass.

I read in one interview or a magazine somewhere that it was considered in Rome to be “inevitable” that Pope Benedict would eventually celebrate Mass in the Extraordinary Form. How long do you think it will be, and why the wait? What do you think he is waiting for?

Furthermore, how do you think he will do it when he does? A big solemn papal Mass in St Peters on Easter or Christmas or something, or a low, private mass?

(I am in no way unhappy or dissapointed with the pope; i was just wondering as to the timing of his “inevitable” TLM)
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Because the Pope operates on VST-Vatican Standard Time. 😃
 
As stated, the rubrics for Papal TLM’s are complex, and in modern times are even more so given the nonexistence of groups that played a role in Papal Masses. There would have to either be a revision of the rubrics or some improv, neither of which would probably not sit well with many traditionalists.
 
JuanCarlos said:
As stated, the rubrics for Papal TLM’s are complex, and in modern times are even more so given the nonexistence of groups that played a role in Papal Masses. There would have to either be a revision of the rubrics or some improv, neither of which would probably not sit well with many traditionalists.
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Could he not avoid this by simply celebrating a private, low mass as one of his daily masses?

But that is an extremely interesting point about the no-longer existing military units.
bpbasilphx said:
One thing to remember:

Benedict XVI is the pope of the ENTIRE Church, not just one faction (alas!) of her.
Click to expand...
Yeah, including the traditionalists. You insinuate that celebrating the Extraordinary Form would be somehow alienating the non-traditionals. Interesting, since the only mass he has ever celebrated as pope is the Novus Ordo
 
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