Why Have You forsaken Me

[turtleoompa]

What did Jesus mean when he said on the cross to his Father “My God MY God Why Have You Forsaken Me”. Did He not know what was happening? Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut in advance. This is just something I was pondering.

 

[Cachonga]

If someone stood up at work or school and sang out “Amazing Grace” and then was silent, wouldnt’ you know the rest of the song? The Psalms is the Jewish “hymnbook”. Jesus quoted Psalms 22:1. Imagine the scene - Jesus is on the cross, his clothes are being divided, they are casting lots for his vestment, and the religious leaders are mocking him. Now, read Psalms 22. This Psalm was written before anyone in the world had ever been crucified, and here it was, being fulfilled. The people that heard him instantly knew (or should have known) what that Psalm said, yet they continued to fulfill it. Jesus did not despair, and the Father never left Him. However, those who were there are without excuse before God for their part in its fulfillment (although, God is merciful, and I believe He forgave all those who repented and turned to faith in Jesus Christ).

Hope this helps!

 

[karen6925]

Hello,
I sure would like the answer to that as well, what I think is, He was wondering why it was taking so long for God to reach down and take him.
Right after he said it, It appears that God took him right at that moment.
Anyone agree?

 

[kennewickmike]

Hello,
I sure would like the answer to that as well, what I think is, He was wondering why it was taking so long for God to reach down and take him.
Right after he said it, It appears that God took him right at that moment.
Anyone agree?

No, it is because of what Cachonga said above your post about Psalm 22. Look any any syudy bible and it will direct you to it.

 

[nohamaria]

" My God, My God , why have you forsaken me?" (mat27/46)
" and when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice,
He gave up his spirit." (mat27/50).
Jesus was at that moment in agony and facing death.
death means the absence of God. God is the life giving
and death is the opposite of life. Therefore the soul
face death when it is away from God.
Jesus , while facing death feels the absence of God,
and his cry for beeing forsaken is a proof to us that
God does not exist in death . and it is another proof
to beleive that God will is giving us Eternal life. The fulfilment of
The Psalm 22:18 is the proof about Jesus as the
Son of God. But it didn’t explain why Jesus had cried
out the above sentence.
My explanation is based on the church teaching of the matter.

Hope it helps.
Nohamaria

 

[YADA]

Psalm 22 is a Song of Hope and Trust in the Lord … Jesus was praying the Psalm … think of it like this …

If I say to you … "Four Score and Seven Years Ago … " do you know the reference? …

How about "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times … "

Jesus begins the Psalm

My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?

Which is followe almost immediately by this hopeful turn …

Why so far from my call for help, from my cries of anguish? My God, I call by day, but you do not answer; by night, but I have no relief. Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the glory of Israel. In you our ancestors trusted; they trusted and you rescued them. To you they cried out and they escaped; in you they trusted and were not disappointed.

And ends with this …

Then I will proclaim your name to the assembly; in the community I will praise you: "You who fear the LORD, give praise! All descendants of Jacob, give honor; show reverence, all descendants of Israel! For God has not spurned or disdained the misery of this poor wretch, Did not turn away from me, but heard me when I cried out. I will offer praise in the great assembly; my vows I will fulfill before those who fear him. The poor will eat their fill; those who seek the LORD will offer praise. May your hearts enjoy life forever!" All the ends of the earth will worship and turn to the LORD; All the families of nations will bow low before you. For kingship belongs to the LORD, the ruler over the nations. All who sleep in the earth will bow low before God; All who have gone down into the dust will kneel in homage. And I will live for the LORD; my descendants will serve you. The generation to come will be told of the Lord, that they may proclaim to a people yet unborn the deliverance you have brought.

This is Jesus sending us [you and me] a song of hope to sing. Jesus was strengthening His disciples from those immediately left behind and those yet unborn to sing God’s praises, serve God no matter the cost that we might have deliverance [Salvation] … disciples of ALL NATIONS …

 

[NotWorthy]

" My God, My God , why have you forsaken me?" (mat27/46)
" and when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice,
He gave up his spirit." (mat27/50).
Jesus was at that moment in agony and facing death.
death means the absence of God. God is the life giving
and death is the opposite of life. Therefore the soul
face death when it is away from God.
Jesus , while facing death feels the absence of God,
and his cry for beeing forsaken is a proof to us that
God does not exist in death . and it is another proof
to beleive that God will is giving us Eternal life. The fulfilment of
The Psalm 22:18 is the proof about Jesus as the
Son of God. But it didn’t explain why Jesus had cried
out the above sentence.
My explanation is based on the church teaching of the matter.

Hope it helps.
Nohamaria

Nohamaria, where did you get this from? I don’t think agree with hardly any of it.

Jesus is IN NO WAY feeling the absence of God, for Jesus and God are one.

If you look at the death of several martyrs, Polycarp, for instance, he felt closest to God during his execution. St. Stephen in Acts 7 is another example, for in his dying words, he saw Jesus seated at the right hands of the Father in Glory.

Jesus taught us a great deal on the Cross, beginning with “Father, forgive them…” and ending with “Into your hands I commend my Spirit”. He did not suffer any feeling of abandonment, as he was glorifying Himself on the Cross.

 

[nohamaria]

Nohamaria, where did you get this from? I don’t think agree with hardly any of it.

Jesus is IN NO WAY feeling the absence of God, for Jesus and God are one.

If you look at the death of several martyrs, Polycarp, for instance, he felt closest to God during his execution. St. Stephen in Acts 7 is another example, for in his dying words, he saw Jesus seated at the right hands of the Father in Glory.

Jesus taught us a great deal on the Cross, beginning with “Father, forgive them…” and ending with “Into your hands I commend my Spirit”. He did not suffer any feeling of abandonment, as he was glorifying Himself on the Cross.

Jesus While beeing crucified and facing death , he was living
according to his human nature, his divine nature reveals itself from
his resurrection. I don’t see any contradiction with what you
explained except that death means the absence of God
which is theologically teached . And I can’t explain it more
than that.
The Saints faced death and they have been giving resurrection immediately.
but this does not contradict that death means the Absence of God.
I can’t argue with you more and hope that someone will
explain it better than I do.
God Bless.
Nohamaria.

 

[YADA]

Please read all of Psalm 22 … it is a song of Praise for God, the God wh never turns away …

or just read my post where I posted the beginning and the end of the psalm …

Here how Psalm 22 ends … this is what Jesus was communicating to the world … God does not turn away and abandon us … not Jesus on the Cross nor us … God hears every cry … The poor will recieve sustenance in abundance …

We will enjoy life forever! … People yet unborn will know deliverence … and serve God

Then I will proclaim your name to the assembly; in the community I will praise you: "You who fear the LORD, give praise! All descendants of Jacob, give honor; show reverence, all descendants of Israel! For God has not spurned or disdained the misery of this poor wretch, Did not turn away from me, but heard me when I cried out. I will offer praise in the great assembly; my vows I will fulfill before those who fear him. The poor will eat their fill; those who seek the LORD will offer praise. May your hearts enjoy life forever!" All the ends of the earth will worship and turn to the LORD; All the families of nations will bow low before you. For kingship belongs to the LORD, the ruler over the nations. All who sleep in the earth will bow low before God; All who have gone down into the dust will kneel in homage. And I will live for the LORD; my descendants will serve you. The generation to come will be told of the Lord, that they may proclaim to a people yet unborn the deliverance you have brought.

 

[NotWorthy]

Jesus While beeing crucified and facing death , he was living
according to his human nature, his divine nature reveals itself from
his resurrection. I don’t see any contradiction with what you
explained except that death means the absence of God
which is theologically teached . And I can’t explain it more
than that.
The Saints faced death and they have been giving resurrection immediately.
but this does not contradict that death means the Absence of God.
I can’t argue with you more and hope that someone will
explain it better than I do.
God Bless.
Nohamaria.

Death is not the absence of God. A saint’s death is the union of man with God.

Christ did NOT feel abandoned on the Cross. He felt at one with God on the Cross.

 

[NotWorthy]

Please read all of Psalm 22 … it is a song of Praise for God, the God wh never turns away …

or just read my post where I posted the beginning and the end of the psalm …

Here how Psalm 22 ends … this is what Jesus was communicating to the world … God does not turn away and abandon us … not Jesus on the Cross nor us … God hears every cry … The poor will recieve sustenance in abundance …

We will enjoy life forever! … People yet unborn will know deliverence … and serve God

And the Choir sings, “AMEN”!

 

[nohamaria]

Please read all of Psalm 22 … it is a song of Praise for God, the God wh never turns away …

or just read my post where I posted the beginning and the end of the psalm …

Here how Psalm 22 ends … this is what Jesus was communicating to the world … God does not turn away and abandon us … not Jesus on the Cross nor us … God hears every cry … The poor will recieve sustenance in abundance …

We will enjoy life forever! … People yet unborn will know deliverence … and serve God

Yada. am not against what you are arguing. Yes God did not leave us
and will never leave us. But if God exist in death we don’t need to
be saved from death and his crucification and passion then resurrection
would be useless. Think about it.
With God Bless.
Nohamaria.

 

[NotWorthy]

Yada. am not against what you are arguing. Yes God did not leave us
and will never leave us. But if God exist in death we don’t need to
be saved from death and his crucification and passion then resurrection
would be useless. Think about it.
With God Bless.
Nohamaria.

But our souls do not die.

God is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. But Jesus clearly teaches that He is the God of the Living.

 

[YADA]

But our souls do not die.

God is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. But Jesus clearly teaches that He is the God of the Living.

Exactly …

Yada. am not against what you are arguing. Yes God did not leave us
and will never leave us. But if God exist in death we don’t need to
be saved from death and his crucification and passion then resurrection
would be useless. Think about it.
With God Bless.
Nohamaria.

But Jesus was not non-existant at His death … Jesus is the One Who Was, Who Is and Who Is To Come … God did not cease to exist at this moment … God and Jesus are One …

IMHO- You are forcing your own idea of the sense of loss Jesus felt upon the scriptures … much like those who thought Jesus was calling upon Elijah to come save Him …

Really, it was [and is] common to speak only the first few lines of passages to communicate the whole … we do so today …

Martin Luther’s "I have a dream … " speech … just that with no additional information provided should bring to your mind the civil rights movement … water cannons, barking dogs, segregation and de-segragation, a sea of humanity on the Mall in DC … an historic struggle and movement … in addition to all that he said that day … including that his children would be judged by the content of their characters and not the color of their skin …

That is the message of Psalm 22 … did you read the Psalm?

Do you not see the life of Christ [at the cross] exhibited in these lines of the Psalm

But I am a worm, hardly human, scorned by everyone, despised by the people. All who see me mock me; they curl their lips and jeer; they shake their heads at me: "You relied on the LORD–let him deliver you; if he loves you, let him rescue you."

and here:

As dry as a potsherd is my throat; my tongue sticks to my palate; you lay me in the dust of death. Many dogs surround me; a pack of evildoers closes in on me. So wasted are my hands and feet that I can count all my bones. They stare at me and gloat; they divide my garments among them; for my clothing they cast lots. But you, LORD, do not stay far off; my strength, come quickly to help me.

You are telling me that you can read Psalm 22 and believe that Jesus’ quoting the beginning is an accident … That the words of Christ mean something totally different then this Psalm of Praise and Glory of God and His Promise of Salvation … strengthening the followers of Christ standing there, nearby and in the generations yet to be born … just as the Psalm promises

 

[NotWorthy]

You are telling me that you can read Psalm 22 and believe that Jesus’ quoting the beginning is an accident …

And then follow it up with another accidental quote from Psalm 31:6 - a Psalm nearly identical in tone to Psalm 22 - beginning with perilous agony and ending in ultimate praise for God above!

 

[YADA]

And then follow it up with another accidental quote from Psalm 31:6 - a Psalm nearly identical in tone to Psalm 22 - beginning with perilous agony and ending in ultimate praise for God above!

:yup: NotWorthy, :clapping:

St Jerome was so right … Ignorance of scripture if ingmorance of Christ

 

[Nita]

" My God, My God , why have you forsaken me?" (mat27/46)
" and when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice,
He gave up his spirit." (mat27/50).
Jesus was at that moment in agony and facing death.
death means the absence of God. God is the life giving
and death is the opposite of life. Therefore the soul
face death when it is away from God.
Jesus , while facing death feels the absence of God,
and his cry for beeing forsaken is a proof to us that
God does not exist in death . and it is another proof
to beleive that God will is giving us Eternal life. The fulfilment of
The Psalm 22:18 is the proof about Jesus as the
Son of God. But it didn’t explain why Jesus had cried
out the above sentence.
My explanation is based on the church teaching of the matter.

Hope it helps.
Nohamaria

There are two deaths which humans may experience

1. physical death which occurs when our human soul departs from our human body.
   Jesus experienced this death. We will all experience this death.
2. spiritual death – separation from God. Jesus did not experience this death. Those who reject God experience this death.

Personally, I agree with you Nohamaria, that on the cross Jesus experienced in his human emotions and intellect what seemed like an abandonment by God.
There is such a mystery in the incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity. Jesus is the Second Person - God - and He knew it even on the cross. But He may well have experienced what seemed like abandonment by God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. (Similar to what some saints have experienced in their spiritual/emotional/intelectual suffering.)

I know it is sometimes stressed that the words “My God My God why hast Thou forsaken Me” are to be taken only as an indication of the whole psalm - a Messianic psalm from start to finish. My thought is that it was the Holy Spirit who inspired the writing of that psalm. **And the reason for having that line be part of the psalm was no doubt because it foretold exactly what the Messiah would experience/suffer in His human soul **- just as other verses in it foretell what He would physically suffer.

 

[Nita]

But He may well have experienced what seemed like abandonment by God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. (Similar to what some saints have experienced in their spiritual/emotional/intelectual suffering.)

I forgot to add that, in fact, Jesus was not abandoned by the Father and the Holy Spirit.

CCC 626 tells us:
…the divine person of the Son of God necessarily continued to possess his human soul and body, separated from each other by death…

 

[nohamaria]

I forgot to add that, in fact, Jesus was not abandoned by the Father and the Holy Spirit.

CCC 626 tells us:
…the divine person of the Son of God necessarily continued to possess his human soul and body, separated from each other by death…

Nita, I notice that there is something the posters in this
thread do not understand properly. This theology of death
is not my invention , it is the teaching of the church and
i heard it from some priests. Death is the opposite of
life. God is life giving than God does not exist in death.
He allows death to be the end of our life here
but he conqueror death by his death and resurrection.
Yes the soul doesn’t die from the first death which is
our bodies death, but after judjment it will face the Second
Death , which is the death of the souls : or as theologically
explained , the Absence of God.
I was only explaining to them what is Death and why God does
not exist in death. God is over death and conquor death and
do not exist in death. I don’t know how to explain it to them
because they don’t reply to me about what is death?
and why God does not exist in Death.
Thank you Nita for your reply.
God Bless
Nohamaria

 

[nohamaria]

I have to clarify an important thing.
In my replies i was referring to that single moment
which exist between our life here and the life after,
and that is death. Death is the moment where our life
here ends and the after death starts which is an eternity.
And God is absent in that single moment only which
is death. Hope you will understand now this theology
of death.
God Bless
Nohamaria