Why haven't i learned a single thing in Mass

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zerinus said:
The LDS Church is very much a “sacramental” church. We recognize all the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church, and several more besides. The LDS Church is unique among Christian churches in that we have temple worship, and there are several ordinances of the gospel (same as what you call sacraments) that are performed exclusively in the temples. They include baptisms for the dead, marriage for eternity (as opposed to marriage “till death do you part” of other churches), and what we call the endowment, which is a peculiar LDS ordinance. They are all sacraments, as you understand them, and means of receiving “grace,” if that is how you want to describe them—although we tend to use a different theological vocabulary to describe these things.

zerinus
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Thank you, as well, zerinus. I feel that my world is expanding,
in coming to know at least a little about the beliefs and the
practices of the Church of the Latter Day Saints. 🙂

reen12
 
zerinus said:
See my previous post.

The “initiatories” are a separate ordinance, where you are washed (ceremonially, not literally) and anointed with oil, and certain blessings are pronounced upon you.

The endowment is a sacred ordinance for us, which we do not describe in detail outside of the temple. This article is tells you as much about it that we are willing to publicly discuss:

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=f318118dd536c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=707672712fddb010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

We believe that marriage was intended by God to be eternal, and when performed by the proper priesthood authority it is solemnised for eternity. That is what we sometimes refer to as “celestial marriage,” “eternal marriage,” or “temple marriage,” because it is performed in the temples. If you are already married when you join our Church, then you don’t need to be “remarried”. You can go to the temple and have your marriage “sealed” for eternity by the same priesthood authority, which means that it is made eternal as though you were married for eternity. “Sealing” can also be performed on behalf of the deceased. Baptism is not the only ordinance that we perform for the dead. We perform all the ordinances of the gospel on behalf of the dead, including having their marriages sealed for eternity.

zerinus
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I read replies out of the order posted. Thank you for the
link that discusses the endowment. I surely respect the fact
that matters, concerning the endowment, are only partially
shared. I do appreciate, too, the link at the bottom of your
post, that will lead to the answers given to frequently asked
quesitons.

Many thanks, zerinus. 👋

reen
 
**
The LDS Church is very much a “sacramental” church. We recognize all the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church, and several more besides. The LDS Church is unique among Christian churches in that we have temple worship, and there are several ordinances of the gospel (same as what you call sacraments) that are performed exclusively in the temples. **

**The rituals of the Mormonoids can offer neither health to the sinews nor marrow in the bones, because there is NO POWER in their priesthood for themselves or their descendants or anyone else forever or any other time or eternity.

And Pay Lay Ale is at best a beer brewed by a Brazilian soccer star.**
 
zerinus said:
The LDS Church is very much a “sacramental” church. We recognize all the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church, and several more besides. The LDS Church is unique among Christian churches in that we have temple worship, and there are several ordinances of the gospel (same as what you call sacraments) that are performed exclusively in the temples. They include baptisms for the dead, marriage for eternity (as opposed to marriage “till death do you part” of other churches), and what we call the endowment, which is a peculiar LDS ordinance. They are all sacraments, as you understand them, and means of receiving “grace,” if that is how you want to describe them—although we tend to use a different theological vocabulary to describe these things.

zerinus
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Here we go, changing definitions again. The LDS church is not a “sacramental church”, it is a covenant church. From lds.org

Covenant: A covenant is a sacred agreement between God and a person or group of people. God sets specific conditions, and He promises to bless us as we obey those conditions. When we choose not to keep covenants, we cannot receive the blessings, and in some instances we suffer a penalty as a consequence of our disobedience.

Sacrament: On the night before His Crucifixion, Jesus Christ met with His Apostles and instituted the sacrament (see Luke 22:19–20). After His Resurrection, He instituted the sacrament among the Nephites (see 3 Nephi 18:1–11). Today the sacrament is an ordinance in which Church members partake of bread and water in remembrance of Jesus Christ’s atoning sacrifice. This ordinance is an essential part of worship and spiritual development. Through this ordinance, Church members renew the covenants they made with God when they were baptized.

Grace: Grace is the help or strength given through the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ. Through the grace of God, everyone who has lived will be resurrected—our spirits will be reunited with our bodies, never again to be separated. Through His grace, the Lord also enables those who live His gospel to repent and be forgiven.

Ordinances: In the Church, an ordinance is a sacred, formal act performed by the authority of the priesthood. Some ordinances are essential to our exaltation. These ordinances are called saving ordinances. They include baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the temple endowment, and the marriage sealing. **With each of these ordinances, we enter into solemn covenants with the Lord.
**
 
reen12 said:
I read replies out of the order posted. Thank you for the
link that discusses the endowment. I surely respect the fact
that matters, concerning the endowment, are only partially
shared. I do appreciate, too, the link at the bottom of your
post, that will lead to the answers given to frequently asked
quesitons.

Many thanks, zerinus. 👋

reen
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You are very welcome. The LDS Church’s official websites are a rich source of information about the Church:

www.lds.org
www.mormon.org

The search engin on the site is also very good, and if you want information about something, you can usually find it by searching for it. That is how I found the article on the endowment I had linked to.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
You are very welcome. The LDS Church’s official websites are a rich source of information about the Church:

www.lds.org
www.mormon.org

The search engin on the site is also very good, and if you want information about something, you can usually find it by searching for it. That is how I found the article on the endowment I had linked to.

zerinus
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Gospel Principles is found at lds.org…so, apparently you can pick a choose what is the correct teaching, and if you don’t agree, tell people to use Mormons scriptures only. 🤷
 
RebeccaJ said:
Gospel Principles is found at lds.org…so, apparently you can pick a choose what is the correct teaching, and if you don’t agree, tell people to use Mormons scriptures only. 🤷
Click to expand...
Yes, I do “pick and choose”. With regard to LDS doctrine, I pick what conforms to the standard works, and reject what doesn’t—regardless of what source it comes from. That is what we are told to do.

zerinus
 
falisrm said:
right, so basically, its not designed to instruct or teach doctrines or principles other then found in the mass ceremony. So it just proves my point with my origional question. Don’t expect to be taught doctrines or principles of the gospel in mass. I think all you catholics could agree with that one.
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As you know, the Mass contains the Liturgy of the Word, various scripture/gospel readings spread throughout the liturgical calendar. The homily/sermon normally expounds upon one or all of those readings.

Technically, though, I suppose that a homily might not be necessary at all times, if the scripture readings are supposedly self-evident.

Really, church doctrine is to be found from the begining of the Mass to the end…including Christ’s sacrifice and resurrection for the forgiveness of sin.

The Mass is not the typical setting for a catechism or apologetics class…although sometimes I think it should, especially the latter.
 
reen12 said:
Good heavens, nebula. That was one of the clearest,
most concise presentations that I have ever encountered.
Thank you very much, for taking the time to explain.

I often note threads begun by a poster who is of the Mormon faith.
Now at least I have some understanding of Mormon belief and practice. [LDS.]
I nearly keeled over, when I read your post.
It is so rare that I see concision walking hand in hand with
absolute clarity of expression.

I think in terms of ‘grace,’ because I was educated in terms of a sacramental system -
where a sacrament is defined as an ‘outward sign, instituted by Christ, to give grace.’

If you have the patience and the time, would you please explain why there is baptism after death?

Thank you for your kindness, nebula,

reen
Click to expand...
reen,

No problem at all. It’s my pleasure to explain :).

Mormons practice baptisms for the dead because they believe that humans are made up of two parts: a physical body and a spirit body united into one. After death, the mortal physical body decays and the spirit body detaches at goes to a place know as the spirit world. In the spirit world, spirits wait for the resurrection of the dead to happen with the second coming of Christ and the final judgment. This is where things get interesting, because spirits do not have physical bodies, they cannot be baptized, but, as I explained above, baptism is a necessary ordinance to have in order to go to the celestial kingdom and be exalted, so a problem of justice arises: what of the poor people who never got a chance to hear the gospel and be baptized by the proper authority (Mormon males with the priesthood)? The answer was one that Joseph Smith said he got in a revelation, baptisms by proxy for the dead! The living can be be the physical bodies and stand in for all spirits who never got properly baptized (that is, any person who was never a Mormon) and be baptized in their names. That way, if the spirit hears the gospel in the spirit world, and it is the duty of every Mormon in the spirit world to preach the gospel, and that spirit accepts the gospel, the spirit can then accept the baptism by proxy done by someone still living here on earth and still has a chance to go the Celestial Kingdom. Originally this practice focused on the family members of living Mormons, this is why Mormons do so much genealogy, to make sure to do all the ordinance work for their dead, but has expanded greatly to include all those who have died without becoming Mormons.

By the way, it isn’t only baptisms for the dead that are done, all the ordinances are done for the dead in the temples, including initiatories, endowments and sealings- that is why Mormons spend a lot of time in temples.

I hope that helps!
 
falisrm said:
Mass has to be one of the least interlectural meetings in existance. The sermons the priest gives is quite frankly, a joke. Half the time he just begs people to be “good” and to make an attempt to come to church. The words have no substance or value.

The rest of the mass is tradition of sitting down, standing up, sitting down, standing up. It took me 2 times to memorize the entire thing. After the sermon is the “peace be with you” peace be with you". sit down, stand up. It the mass some sort of ordinance of memorized meanings?
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Clearly you do not understand why you are attending Mass or what the Mass is. I hope this helps.

The Mass itself is the re-presentation in time and space of the passion, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Even when the “setting” of the Mass, such as the priest’s homily, the congregation, the music, seems to be blah and uninspiring, at every Mass Jesus Christ himself becomes present on the altar and offers his very self to be our spiritual nourishment.Mass is not intended to be “fun.” It is intended to be solemnly joyous because it makes present Christ crucified and resurrected. Imagine Calvary two thousand years ago: Should we expect Jesus to have given a lively and relevant final “sermon” and should we expect his disciples to be cheerful and upbeat? Now imagine the women at the empty tomb: Should we expect them to be entertained? Mass makes present for us Calvary and the empty tomb; it makes us present at Calvary and the empty tomb.This does not mean that a priest cannot give a better homily, or that congregants could not be more friendly and join in the singing. But it does mean that attendance at Mass and participation in the Mass should not be dependent upon the strengths or weaknesses of the priest and the congregation. Perhaps the recommendations below will be helpful in better understanding the Mass and its relevance to Christian worship.Mass Appeal by Jimmy Akin

How do I pay attention at Mass?
I recommend The Scott Hahn conversion story as well.
 
Maybe we should make our homilies more “interlectural”… More spelling lessons at mass? 😛
 
is the OP catholic? how can you say you are not learning anything in mass.

you are not really there to learn. you are there to share in the celebration of the eucharist with the church community.

the priests at my church give very good homilies.

i am sorry if you do not have a priest at your church who preaches a good homily.

the standing, sitting, kneeling is all part of what we do demanding on the part of the mass we are saying.

you have missed something somewhere in your catholic upbringing. and if you are not catholic, you should not be receiving the holy communion.

i have not read any other posts except for the first few on this thread.

so if i have repeated something, please forgive me.
 
i meant to write depending, not demanding. sometimes i think the keys have a mind of their own!! LOL
 
i don’t know if you can edit within the first 15 minutes. i don’t know how to anyway. i haven’t been on this forum for too long. if you know a way, please let me know. maybe where it says preview post.
 
deborahaz said:
i don’t know if you can edit within the first 15 minutes. i don’t know how to anyway. i haven’t been on this forum for too long. if you know a way, please let me know. maybe where it says preview post.
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Before posting, you can hit preview post. This will show you exactly what your post will look like. You can correct and hit preview post as many times as you like until hitting submit.
This is a good way to catch typos.
If despite checking your posts 20 times or more (I’m exagerrating, of course, but sometimes it seems I do check mine that many times}, you discover that you still made an error and want to add or subtract something, click on the edit button at the bottom of your post. You will be asked to give a reason for editing or cancelling your post. I generally ignore that. You can go through the same process as with your original post. Finally click on the Save Changes button. You can do this as many times as necessary. Do note, that if somebody responds to your post in the meantime, the quote they use in their post will still have the original error.
Hope this helps.
 
okay thanks. i guess i should start proof reading the longer posts i make.

i notice i have been doing that a lot lately- typing a different word than i am thinking of. i swear i think my computer has a mind of its own and spell check is changing the word! LOL it can’t be my brain!
 
deborahaz said:
i don’t know if you can edit within the first 15 minutes. i don’t know how to anyway. i haven’t been on this forum for too long. if you know a way, please let me know. maybe where it says preview post.
Click to expand...
Yes, you can edit both before you post and afterwards.

I am amazed at the number of times I find a mistake only when my reply has been posted even though I am sure than I checked everything at earlier phases.

If you edit in “preview post” you need to click preview post again or your changes won’t appear.

You can miss the ability to edit if you don’t look to the bottom of your post after you have posted.

Not a very technical explanation but I’m not technical - but I did pick up about editing and can do it.
 
thanks. i will give it a try the next time i make a mistake. which probably won’t be long!!
 
deborahaz said:
thanks. i will give it a try the next time i make a mistake. which probably won’t be long!!
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All the above advise is great - Just be aware that, after you submit your post you have about 15 or 20 minutes to edit it. After that you get a message telling you that you have to contact the administrator.
Of course this is almost never a problem, but thought I’d mention it.
Another good reson for using the review post button.😉

Peace
James
 
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