Why head covering?

[slyboots]

I have no idea why people think wearing a headcovering is such a major trial. Women of many religions around the world wear headcoverings.
When I see women of Israel many of them in the markets, working walking and with children they are wearing scarves to cover their heads. Ask an Israeli lady wearing a scarf or snood if it’s a great problem to work, shop, clean house or raise children while covered.
Similarly many women of Islam wear headcoverings even when employed, caring for their children and when shopping.
Women of many eastern European counties wear scarves much of the time.
I always wear my mantilla when before the Blessed Sacrament. I’m not holier than any other woman. Just obedient to God’s word to me through St Paul. It does increase my modesty. It does help me help my humility. And it reminds me that I am in the direct presence of our Lord. Maybe it won’t do that for you. But if God moves your heart to cover, it would be well with your soul to do so.

 

[CradleCath]

when before the Blessed Sacrament. I’m not holier than any other woman. Just obedient to God’s word to me through St Paul. It does increase my modesty. It does help me help my humility. And it reminds me that I am in the direct presence of our Lord. Maybe it won’t do that for you. But if God moves your heart to cover, it would be well with your soul to do so.

I wouldn’t consider the wearing of a veil or mantilla as a sign of servitude or inferiority, etc. I’m attending a new parish today where the Latin Mass is held EVERY week at 12:30pm. It will be our parish from now on. I have not yet got up the nerve to wear a mantilla or head covering of some kind…it is considered by many liberals to be a “holier than thou” thing & I’ve heard that for so long that it does affect me. I’m hoping that by next Sun., I’ll have your courage & thus receive the benefits you mention. THANKS!!!

 

[Eilish_Maura]

I wouldn’t consider the wearing of a veil or mantilla as a sign of servitude or inferiority, etc. I’m attending a new parish today where the Latin Mass is held EVERY week at 12:30pm. It will be our parish from now on. I have not yet got up the nerve to wear a mantilla or head covering of some kind…it is considered by many liberals to be a “holier than thou” thing & I’ve heard that for so long that it does affect me. I’m hoping that by next Sun., I’ll have your courage & thus receive the benefits you mention. THANKS!!!

What if you receive no ‘benefits’?

 

[slyboots]

What if you receive no ‘benefits’?

I am puzzled. Why would you ask that? Do you think that it’s important to get a reward for bring obedient? When God moves you to do a thing, and you do it, that is sufficient. Are you compassionate for a reward? Do you spend time in prayer for reward? I suspect you don’t. I think probably you pray, are compassionate and obedient out of love and respect for God and His creation.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

I am puzzled. Why would you ask that? Do you think that it’s important to get a reward for bring obedient? When God moves you to do a thing, and you do it, that is sufficient. Are you compassionate for a reward? Do you spend time in prayer for reward? I suspect you don’t. I think probably you pray, are compassionate and obedient out of love and respect for God and His creation.

What if God is not moving a person to do this?

Exactly who is the obedience to? St. Paul? Customs of other cultures?

I did not introduce the receiving rewards or benefits - I am asking if someone who does speak of them has a sense of what they would do if none were coming.

 

[lizaanne]

What if God is not moving a person to do this?

Exactly who is the obedience to? St. Paul? Customs of other cultures?

I did not introduce the receiving rewards or benefits - I am asking if someone who does speak of them has a sense of what they would do if none were coming.

Is there a problem with being obedient to the words of St. Paul?

~Liza

 

[slyboots]

What if God is not moving a person to do this?

Exactly who is the obedience to? St. Paul? Customs of other cultures?

I did not introduce the receiving rewards or benefits - I am asking if someone who does speak of them has a sense of what they would do if none were coming.

If God moves one to cover and you do it,the obedience is to God, obviously. Not customs or St Paul. And perhaps God is not moving you to cover. The Church does not condemn you nor do I.
But I do believe God is pleased with obedience. And I know I am being obedient to him when I wear my headcovering.
My point was I don’t feel “rewards” are needed for a person to do what God asks of him or her. I do not feel rewarded for veiling. I feel humbled. However your original question was not for me.

 

[lizaanne]

I wouldn’t consider the wearing of a veil or mantilla as a sign of servitude or inferiority, etc. I’m attending a new parish today where the Latin Mass is held EVERY week at 12:30pm. It will be our parish from now on. I have not yet got up the nerve to wear a mantilla or head covering of some kind…it is considered by many liberals to be a “holier than thou” thing & I’ve heard that for so long that it does affect me. I’m hoping that by next Sun., I’ll have your courage & thus receive the benefits you mention. THANKS!!!

Be brave - don’t worry what others think, it really is none of their concern. If this is something you feel that you are called to do - for whatever reason - then just do it. I honestly couldn’t care less what anyone thinks of my covered head - that’s between me and God and my husband.

~Liza

 

[peregrinator_it]

Boy, has this topic been done to death. And yet, here I am replying.

N.B. I have no issue with anyone who wears a veil. Anyone should feel free to practice whatever devotions bring them closer to God. If you feel you it’s of benefit to you to wear a veil, do it, don’t worry about other people, and more power to you.

I have no idea why people think wearing a headcovering is such a major trial.

The above attitude, however, tends to irritate me. I don’t wear a veil because it would be more of a distraction (for me) than I think it’s worth- not because I consider it a “major trial.”

I’m forgetful and I fidget- I don’t wear jewelry any more because I fidget with it so much. Wearing a veil for me would mean building in an extra 20 - 40 minutes to my Sunday morning to a) leave without veil, b) come back for veil, c) find veil, and d) attach veil. After which I would sit through Mass and fidget with the darn thing.

Could I overcome this? Sure, given a year or so. But the veil doesn’t mean that much to me to begin with. I’m just not a clothing oriented person- don’t care what I wear as long as it’s neat, modest, and reasonably clean.

As that’s the case, I’d rather take those 20 -40 minutes and use them to practice a devotion that is meaningful and attractive to me (like Lectio Divina) and from which I know that I benefit greatly.

I imagine that those who don’t veil might be in similar circumstances and are not exaggerating a head covering into a hardship…

 

[slyboots]

Boy, has this topic been done to death. And yet, here I am replying.

N.B. I have no issue with anyone who wears a veil. Anyone should feel free to practice whatever devotions bring them closer to God. If you feel you it’s of benefit to you to wear a veil, do it, don’t worry about other people, and more power to you.

The above attitude, however, tends to irritate me. I don’t wear a veil because it would be more of a distraction (for me) than I think it’s worth- not because I consider it a “major trial.”

I’m forgetful and I fidget- I don’t wear jewelry any more because I fidget with it so much. Wearing a veil for me would mean building in an extra 20 - 40 minutes to my Sunday morning to a) leave without veil, b) come back for veil, c) find veil, and d) attach veil. After which I would sit through Mass and fidget with the darn thing.

Could I overcome this? Sure, given a year or so. But the veil doesn’t mean that much to me to begin with. I’m just not a clothing oriented person- don’t care what I wear as long as it’s neat, modest, and reasonably clean.

As that’s the case, I’d rather take those 20 -40 minutes and use them to practice a devotion that is meaningful and attractive to me (like Lectio Divina) and from which I know that I benefit greatly.

I imagine that those who don’t veil might be in similar circumstances and are not exaggerating a head covering into a hardship…

Someone earlier seemed to think that wearing a veil while being an Exraordinary Minister would be difficult. I was responding to that. My point is that it doesn’t have to be. Lots of women wear them all the time while doing everything imaginable.
If you don’t wear a veil I will probably not notice. Much less be bothered by it.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

But I do believe God is pleased with obedience. And I know I am being obedient to him when I wear my headcovering.

How can one tell if it is God pushing for ‘obedience’ here?

 

[slyboots]

How can one tell if it is God pushing for ‘obedience’ here?

For me the same way He moved me into the Catholic Church after 42 years of being a protestant. He just kept giving me nudges and didn’t give up on me until I had done what it was He wanted.

It took me 42 years to become Catholic. As a child my very evangelical mother used to say I was her little “closet Catholic”. So even she knew what I was supposed to do. But it took me forever to do it.
So by the time God asked me to cover I was much less likely to fuss with Him about it. It only took me about 10 years.

Am I hard-headed or what?

 

[peregrinator_it]

Someone earlier seemed to think that wearing a veil while being an Exraordinary Minister would be difficult. I was responding to that. My point is that it doesn’t have to be. Lots of women wear them all the time while doing everything imaginable.
If you don’t wear a veil I will probably not notice. Much less be bothered by it.

Woops. That’ll teach me to skim rather than read.

I would think a traditional (?) lacy-type veil wouldn’t work too well, for someone who was EM. (I’m picturing the large-triangle variety.) Seems to me the loose ends would be too easy to catch a hand on, dip in something … A head-scarf would be better…

 

[CradleCath]

=slyboots;
I always wear my mantilla when before the Blessed Sacrament. I’m not holier than any other woman. Just obedient to God’s word to me through St Paul. It does increase my modesty. It does help me help my humility. And it reminds me that I am in the direct presence of our Lord. Maybe it won’t do that for you. But if God moves your heart to cover, it would be well with your soul to do so.

Just wanted to let you know that more women wore head coverings than didn’t at the Latin Mass today & I’ll be shopping for both a Mantilla & an English/Latin missal. We met up with one of our sons & his family at Mass & my 8 yr. old granddaughter came home with us. She was so excited…“those veils are so cool, Grandma” & every single little girl had one on today…except her. She’ll be going shopping with either myself or her Mom for one, too.
Have you (or anyone here) purchased a 1962 English/Latin Missal that they’ve found particularly helpful? If so, I’d like to hear about it. . Was it one of your own from before Vat. II, or did you buy it recently & if so, where? My old missal is ready to fall apart & my aunt’s, that I received upon her death, has terribly small print. It’s very interesting, though. She received hers in 1921, which would have been the year she was Confirmed & I’ve never seen another quite like it, though I assume they were common. On the left hand page is the Mass, itself, & on the right are prayers plus reflections to dwell on while assisting at Mass. Thanks so much for your post.

 

[lizaanne]

Just wanted to let you know that more women wore head coverings than didn’t at the Latin Mass today & I’ll be shopping for both a Mantilla & an English/Latin missal. We met up with one of our sons & his family at Mass & my 8 yr. old granddaughter came home with us. She was so excited…“those veils are so cool, Grandma” & every single little girl had one on today…except her. She’ll be going shopping with either myself or her Mom for one, too.
Have you (or anyone here) purchased a 1962 English/Latin Missal that they’ve found particularly helpful? If so, I’d like to hear about it. . Was it one of your own from before Vat. II, or did you buy it recently & if so, where? My old missal is ready to fall apart & my aunt’s, that I received upon her death, has terribly small print. It’s very interesting, though. She received hers in 1921, which would have been the year she was Confirmed & I’ve never seen another quite like it, though I assume they were common. On the left hand page is the Mass, itself, & on the right are prayers plus reflections to dwell on while assisting at Mass. Thanks so much for your post.

Good for you! I’m glad it was a positive experience for you.

I recently purchased a 1962 Missal but have not had the opportunity to use it at Mass yet - though I hope to soon. I know I am really enjoying reading it daily, and learning some beautiful prayers and customs that I never knew about that are from the Tridentine calendar apparently.

I purchased mine through the book store at Saint Michael’s Media (see the link in my sig). You can also find them on eBay or Amazon - they start at about $62, so be prepared for sticker shock! I started a thread about which one to buy some time back - I’ll try to find it and post it here so we don’t highjack this head covering thread too much.

EDIT - here it is: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=204732

~Liza

 

[SRLAUREL]

The Holy Father can make allowances for all sorts of reasons - right up to communion in the hand, etc…

That doesn’t mean that one way is as good as another.

Why do women feel the need to reveal their hair in Church? When did it start?

Before my conversion, I went to the United Church of Canada - an extremely liberal Christian community - and the older women there covered their heads in Church while the younger ones did not.

To me, it looks like a cultural shift of some sort occured and the Vatican simply reacted to it. So, yes, technically it is perfectly legal for women to bare their heads in a Roman Catholic Church - but please don’t give the impression that the idea of it came from the Vicar of Christ on earth.

Some of what you say is true enough, though Vatican Ii did not simply “react”. Instead they made a reasoned response based on the recognition that St Paul’s comments were culturally driven. Still, the Church’s decision on this matter does mean that it is illegitimate to frame this question as one of “obedience” to St Paul. This is particularly true given last Sunday’s lection regarding divisions in the church: those who say they are obedient to St Paul or follow Apollos, for instance. We cannot frame this question in terms of obedience to St Paul when the magisterium herself says the praxis is culturally driven and unnecessary.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Some of what you say is true enough, though Vatican Ii did not simply “react”. Instead they made a reasoned response based on the recognition that St Paul’s comments were culturally driven. Still, the Church’s decision on this matter does mean that it is illegitimate to frame this question as one of “obedience” to St Paul. This is particularly true given last Sunday’s lection regarding divisions in the church: those who say they are obedient to St Paul or follow Apollos, for instance. We cannot frame this question in terms of obedience to St Paul when the magisterium herself says the praxis is culturally driven and unnecessary.

To take this a step further - if it is illegitimate to frame this as ‘obedience’ to St Paul is is also illegitimate to frame this as ‘obedience’ to God (outside of a personal sense of being drawn to a private devotional practice)?

 

[CradleCath]

Good for you! I’m glad it was a positive experience for you.

I recently purchased a 1962 Missal but have not had the opportunity to use it at Mass yet - though I hope to soon. I know I am really enjoying reading it daily, and learning some beautiful prayers and customs that I never knew about that are from the Tridentine calendar apparently.

I purchased mine through the book store at Saint Michael’s Media (see the link in my sig). You can also find them on eBay or Amazon - they start at about $62, so be prepared for sticker shock! I started a thread about which one to buy some time back - I’ll try to find it and post it here so we don’t highjack this head covering thread too much.

EDIT - here it is: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=204732

~Liza

Thank you so much for the link. I intend to read the postings today.

 

[SRLAUREL]

To take this a step further - if it is illegitimate to frame this as ‘obedience’ to St Paul is is also illegitimate to frame this as ‘obedience’ to God (outside of a personal sense of being drawn to a private devotional practice)?

So long as we are not speaking about someone with a public vow of obedience who is required in proper law to wear a veil, cowl, etc, this would not be a matter of “obedience” EXCEPT in the private devotional sense you refer to. Since the Church is clear headcoverings are not mandatory in the general sense it cannot be a matter of obedience except for those with additional obligations in law. My complaint about referring to Paul’s own comments in the NT and framing the wearing of a headcovering as obedience to him or his teaching is divisive and flies in the face of the Church’s own teaching on the matter, as well as of one of the readings we heard this last Sunday. THAT is illegitimate in a couple of senses! One may wear a head covering if one wishes. One may wear it if Paul’s text speaks personally to you in some way to motivate this, but generally one may not cast it in terms of “obedience,” except in the sense you mention.

 

[slyboots]

The obedience I spoke of was prescisely that of God nudging me. I did not say that everyone is so moved. I personally would like it if other ladies covered. In my thoughts it as a sign of reverence by most women who cover today.
But if you don’t as I said I probably won’t notice. I am busy trying to keep my thoughts and heart on my prayers and devotions.
But as for it being “a reasoned response” by the Church, I have always heard differently.

“During the second Vatican Council, a mob of reporters waited for news after a council meeting. One of them asked Msgr. Annibale Bugnini, then secretary of the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship, if women still had to wear a headcover in churches. His response was that the Bishops were considering other issues, and that women’s veils were not on the agenda. The next day, the International Press announced throughout the world that women did not have to wear the veil anymore. A few days later, Msgr. Bugnini told the press he was misquoted and women still had to wear the veil. But the Press did not retract the error, and many women stopped wearing the veil…”