Why Hostility for the Ordinary Form of the Mass?

[Xantippe]

There was a really good piece here:

An Urgent Warning About the Future of the Traditional Latin Mass

In this post I want to summon my fellow Catholics who love the Traditional Latin Mass to a greater appreciation of their obligation to evangelize. I sense tha...

www.ncregister.com

"Some years ago (as far back at the early 1980s) we who love the Traditional Latin Mass often said (or it heard said) that if we would just return to the beautiful Latin Mass our churches would again be filled.

"At first this appeared to be happening. As many dioceses (through the various indults of the 1980s and 1990s) began to offer the Traditional Latin Mass, those churches were filled, often to standing room only. Liturgical progressives were horrified and traditionalists were joyfully pleased and felt vindicated.

"But as the availability of the Traditional Latin Mass has increased, it seems that a certain ceiling has been reached.

"In my own archdiocese, although we offer the Traditional Latin Mass in five different locations, we’ve never been able to attract more than a total of about a thousand people. That’s only one-half of one percent of the total number of Catholics who attend Mass in this archdiocese each Sunday.

“One of our parishes generously offers a Solemn High Mass once a month on Sunday afternoon, a Mass that I myself have celebrated for over 25 years. But we have gone from seeing the church almost full, to two-thirds full, to now only about one-third full.”

“And once again we are back to the fundamental point: numbers matter. Groups that seek respect, recognition, and promotion in the highest places need to remember that numbers do matter; it’s just the way life works. If we who love the Traditional Latin Mass want to be near the top of the bishop’s priority list, we’re going to have to be more than one-half of one percent of Catholics in the pews.”

 

[ProVobis]

I attended a Lutheran memorial for my niece and it not only resembled an OF but it was just as or more reverent.

 

[ProVobis]

What’s interesting to me is that those who attend Eastern liturgies are never questioned as to why they don’t attend an OF. But tell them you prefer an EF and they go bonkers.

 

[ProVobis]

Your assertion is just plain silly. The OF Mass allows options – quite an elegant design in my opinion. It does not allow the celebrant to “ad lib.” That’s patently false.

Then what’s with all the “Good morning, everyone.” etc, etc, for several minutes while they make you stand?

 

[ProVobis]

Don’t hold your breath because the OF Mass isn’t going anywhere

Then why the phobia?

 

[ProVobis]

Not so, according to Trent. The Mass in question at that Council was “received and approved” and thus protected. (Received as in handed-down or traditional.)

 

[ChunkMonk]

Well I definitely agree with him that they can’t just put up the sign that says “Latin” and leave it at that. And I think it doesn’t help that the EF community has a (somewhat deserved) reputation for being insular and proud. And hundreds of OF parishes are closing every year. So I think there is also a little bit of chicken-little in the idea that the night is falling on the Latin Mass.

 

[ProVobis]

I attended a Spanish Mass once where I was the only one in the pews when the Mass was to start. By the time the sermon was given, a few more had come in but that was it. Please stop with the attendance stuff.

 

[Xantippe]

Well I definitely agree with him that they can’t just put up the sign that says “Latin” and leave it at that. And I think it doesn’t help that the EF community has a (somewhat deserved) reputation for being insular and proud. And hundreds of OF parishes are closing every year. So I think there is also a little bit of chicken-little in the idea that the night is falling on the Latin Mass.

If OF parishes with way higher attendance are closing, then maybe some Chicken Little panic is in order for EF parishes with much lower attendance.

I’ve certainly often encountered (including on this thread) the idea that all you need is a Latin Mass and you instantly get packed churches. People need to stop thinking and saying that.

 

[jas84173]

That’s what Vatican 2 did. People don’t even care anymore. They’d rather skip in and out, take the Eucharist by hand by your mother the Eucharistic minister and then not even genuflect at the tabernacle on the side corner of the Church before you walk out.

 

[Gertabelle]

That’s what Vatican 2 did. People don’t even care anymore. They’d rather skip in and out, take the Eucharist by hand by your mother the Eucharistic minister and then not even genuflect at the tabernacle on the side corner of the Church before you walk out.

Yeah, there are people who are like that. But let’s face it – having all masses in the EF probably wouldn’t change them. Most likely, they’d stop attending mass all together.

Thankfully, at least from what I see from the choir loft at my parish – and believe me, we can see everything from up there – there are very, very few people like that in my parish.

Most people receive communion on the tongue. Many genuflect before receiving. Some kneel to receive.

And I don’t see anyone skipping in or out.

 

[jas84173]

Look I was being a wise guy. Many people who go to the OF are amazing religious people.
I am not bashing the OF I go to it every day at my parish. I just try to also go to the EF Mass a few towns away on Sunday afternoon.
I honestly just wish more Churches offered it. From what I’ve heard most priests have an overall understanding how to do it. Maybe their Latin isn’t all great but it’s not like they only show it’s form in seminaries run by EF exclusive societies .

 

[jas84173]

Not to mention the Gospel and homily don’t have to be said in Latin in the EF. Only certain parts it’s a requirement.

 

[Duesenberg]

The vast majority of the bishops favor the EF Mass because it is very rare that a priest who is favorable to tradition will be elevated to the episcopacy.

I didn’t ask about that. I said:

I challenge you to write to your ordinary seeking his confirmation of your belief that the EF Mass is more extrinsically deeply rooted in Catholicism that the OF Mass.

If would be fascinating to read his response.

 

[Duesenberg]

Look I was being a wise guy. Many people who go to the OF are amazing religious people.

I am not bashing the OF I go to it every day at my parish. I just try to also go to the EF Mass a few towns away on Sunday afternoon.

I like the EF Mass too. Very much in fact. I’m just amused by those that actually believe that the EF Mass is “more extrinsically deeply rooted in Catholicism that the OF Mass.”

That’s just laughably absurd – not to mention false.

 

[Duesenberg]

I was at the EF Mass last night. There were probably 100 people there. It was actually rather nice for our family, as it’s normally hard to find a spot where we can all squeeze in at an OF Mass, but there’s lots of space at the EF Mass.

I think people who are EF enthusiasts tend to overestimate the draw that the EF has.

I think the EF Mass (at least around here) would draw a great many more people if those who already attend the EF Mass around here had more developed social skills. It’s downright SAD to see those on a search being driven away by the socially offensive behavior of others.

 

[Duesenberg]

Not so, according to Trent. The Mass in question at that Council was “received and approved” and thus protected. (Received as in handed-down or traditional.)

Your interpretation of Trent is flawed.

 

[Duesenberg]

It’s too bad.

Yes it is…

I like the EF Mass very much. I think I “value” it even more. I value the impact it could have on the Latin Rite of the Church in general. Instead that impact is severely weakened by those with some very strange ideas and behavior that simply don’t pass the smell test.

 

[Reuben_J]

Does the Catholic Church really need a universal language? This seems against the principle that God can reach us through any human language. No, I do not think a universal language is needed but rather a universal doctrine.

 

[Debbie_Kono]

Sixth reason - Variety of Languages is the result of Sin

The Variety of Languages is a punishment (Genesis 11:7) a consequence of sin; it was inflicted by God that the human race might be dispersed over the face of the earth. The Holy Church, the immaculate Spouse of Jesus Christ, has been established for the express purpose of destroying sin and uniting all mankind; consequently she must everywhere speak the same language.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/newmass/latina.htm