Why I am Not Eastern Orthodox

  • Thread starter Thread starter nightshade
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
considered the Orthodox Church prior to converting to Catholicism.
I did too. I think everyone really searching would naturally reach this choice, Catholic or Orthodox.

In the essay, Akin says, “ The absence of a pope from Eastern Orthodoxy clearly had negative effects. With no pope to call or recognize ecumenical councils, the Orthodox haven’t had one in centuries. As Kallistos Ware virtually admits, there is no practical way for the Orthodox to call or agree upon an ecumenical council (cf. The Orthodox Church , Penguin Books, 255–8).

The absence of a pope has led to a kind of magisterial paralysis on the part of the Orthodox,”

“Magisterial paralysis” is an interesting phrase to use. 16 years ago when I had to make my own choice, the same thought occurred to me at the time, and it might have been the overriding consideration for me. I couldn’t help thinking it a little weird that the Orthodox held to 7 ecumenical councils and the Catholic held to 21! That’s a dramatic divergence. So, my own internal question was, did the second millennium produce nothing worthy of an ecumenical council by the Orthodox? No heresies, schisms, nothing? Just stasis? In 787, All was settled that would ever need to be settled? Is that possible? Yes. Is it plausible? I didn’t think so.

But then again, I get the Orthodox reasoning—that type of truly ecumenical council can’t happen without all the bishops of the Sees, and they can’t have the bishop of Rome present. So in a sense, the Orthodox are insisting on tradition, and that’s not a terrible thing.

Also, the Orthodox make a good point that has been highlighted by the Catholic church’s sex abuse scandal. It’s not necessarily a good thing to have a too-top-heavy approach to juridical authority. Having only two divisions of magisterial authority, the local bishop and the universal bishop (of Rome) probably made the Catholic Church slow in its ability to react to scandal, when that scandal involved the bishop-level. As in, if only the pope can remove bishops from office, isn’t that more than a little impractical for a religion that is 1 billion strong?

Some Orthodox (like Ware) argue that there are really at least three magisterial levels—the local (bishop), the regional (patriarch) and the universal (pope). In truth, that probably makes much more sense for a massive (in terms of numbers) religion. In terms of practical, everyday governance, it makes a ton of sense to have a regional level of authority. Would McCarrick have persisted as long as he did if there were a regional authority to address it? The Catholic Church is gifted by having the universal pastor at its head, but it probably also suffers unnecessarily by having no regional level to help govern the 1B folks. Both sides have good points on this particular issue.

There’s more that could be said about the Akin essay. None of what he says is a slam-dunk argument against Orthodoxy, but nor should it be, right? Unitatis redintegratio is what we’re supposed to be working on here, not continued division.
 
I also considered the orthodox when I was deciding. The papacy just made sense to me, and the degree of disunity within orthodoxy seemed like a red flag to me.

If I had known more about the Eastern Catholics, I might have become Eastern Catholic. I am still drawn to Eastern spirituality.
 
Some Orthodox (like Ware) argue that there are really at least three magisterial levels—the local (bishop), the regional (patriarch) and the universal (pope). In truth, that probably makes much more sense for a massive (in terms of numbers) religion. In terms of practical, everyday governance, it makes a ton of sense to have a regional level of authority.
Catholics try to satisfy this with metropolitan archbishops and regional bishops conferences but it doesn’t work very well.

The best solution is for the east and west to come back into communion with each other. Please God.
 
Last edited:
If I had known more about the Eastern Catholics, I might have become Eastern Catholic. I am still drawn to Eastern spirituality.
Ditto! I’m right there with you.
Catholics try to satisfy this with metropolitan archbishops and regional bishops conferences but it doesn’t work very well.
Right, they don’t work well because that have not been vested with actual authority to act. They can recommend to the pope, then he acts. That may have worked ok when the church of the Middle Ages was much smaller. But today…?!
The best solution is for the east and west to come back into communion with each other. Please God.
The church seriously needs a restoration of its first millennium unity!!!
 
With no pope to call or recognize ecumenical councils, the Orthodox haven’t had one in centuries.
There’s at least one silver lining, Without a council they didn’t end up with their liturgy being completely changed to conform to modernism.
 
There’s at least one silver lining, Without a council they didn’t end up with their liturgy being completely changed to conform to modernism.
It’s a good point. I’ve enjoyed the Chrysostom Divine Liturgies I’ve attended at Orthodox churches.
 
I have nothing but love and respect for our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters in Christ. I hope to see communion between Catholics and Orthodox in my lifetime… However alot of reactions I see from the Eastern side and a few from the Western side makes me think I will not see it unless the Holy Spirit gets involved big time. I don’t like this separation between Peter and Andrew.
 
Last edited:
I’m not sure what the point of your video is. Showing a bunch of atypical catholic masses don’t really say much…
 
Correction - Eastern Orthodox Church. We are only one Church.
But isn’t it the case that some churches are not in communion with each other? The article states while Eastern Orthodox church A May be in communion with B and C- C and B may not be in communion with each other.

Is that the case?

Nevertheless there is a Greek Orthodox Church within an hour drive of where I live and I hope to attend a Divine Liturgy there someday.
 
But isn’t it the case that some churches are not in communion with each other?
The only known case of broken communion between EO local patriarchies has happened this year, with the new church in Ukraine. Russians broke communion with Constantinople while Constantinople did not breaks communion with the Russians. This is one event in 1000 years after the Schism. All other EO churches judged Constantinople for their interference in the Ukraine problem but did not break communion with it.
Otherwise a break of communion would just mean that one of the two Orthodox churches is a heretic and a trial must take place.
The Russians have done their things, but the new church in Ukraine is very odd. They have a St. George icon in which St. George stabs the bi-cephaleos eagle of Bizantium instead of a devil. The bicephaleos eagle is the symbol Constantinople and Pat. Bartholomew is ok with that apparently, or tries to ride troubled waters by playing it ok.
Either way, until this moment, there was never an official break of communion between EO patriarchies.
I admit I was expecting Pope Francis to just step in and calm things down but apparently he never moves an inch against Pat. Bartholomew.
When you get to the liturgy… be sure to wear comfortable shoes. 😀
 
What about the Coptic and oriental orthodox churches? Is everyone really in communion with everyone else?

Also, the division between the ecumenical patriarchate and Russia is a pretty big deal affecting hundreds of thousands of orthodox.
 
Last edited:
What about the Coptic and oriental orthodox churches? Is everyone really in communion with everyone else?

Also, the division between the ecumenical patriarchate and Russia is a pretty big deal affecting hundreds of thousands of orthodox.
The Coptic Churches are miaphysite, they believe Christ had only one nature. By this statement they defy the NT and the Orthodox and Catholic traditions. Their suffering shakes me constantly but one heretic view was held against Arius, why should another heretic view be forgiven on the other side?
These things are details to us here, but they were revealed to be a lot to the Church Fathers attending the Ecumenical Councils.
We cannot joke or dismiss these issues.
 

But then again, I get the Orthodox reasoning—that type of truly ecumenical council can’t happen without all the bishops of the Sees, and they can’t have the bishop of Rome present. So in a sense, the Orthodox are insisting on tradition, and that’s not a terrible thing.
A timeline shows much agreement and disagreement also in the first 1000 years. So parts of the faithful were not part of the Orthodox Catholic Church after a council anathematized their beliefs and not accepting that.
  • Orthodox Catholic Church: Council of Nicaea 325 A.D.
  • Western church not at the local eastern council which modifies the Creed – Constantinople 381 A.D.
  • Assyrian Church of the East does not accept – Ephesus 441 A.D.
  • Pope Leo I, dogma of the filioque 447 A.D.
  • Oriental Orthodox churches do not accept – Chalcedon 451 A.D.
  • Constantinople 553 A.D. Emperor Justinian jails Pope Vigilius and does not let him attend the council, but the Pope does agree to the council decrees. Western Schism results from this only to be resolved in the 7th century A.D.
  • Photian Schism. 863-867 A.D.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top