Why I am Not Eastern Orthodox

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The music in many Catholic parishes is horrible these days. I am not a fan of the embrace of Protestant forms of worship (rock/folk music especially) you see in many parishes. While the video accurately portrays the bad side of post Vatican II liturgical changes, there are still many good masses and liturgies out there especially where TLM is celebrated. Even many of the ordinary form masses have way better music and reverence than what was shown on that video.

I really wish there was an Eastern Catholic parish within a half hour of me but there isn’t.
 
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I hope nobody attacks anyone else here. I am just seeking discussion. While our opinions and beliefs may be different we should all be able to discuss them civilly and with maturity.
 
I didn’t see anything that was atypical in that video. It might seem more atypical because some of the shots are focused on the musicians who are getting into the music they are playing.
 
To play devils advocate, why are ecumenical councils necessary? If they have resolved their theological problems without one why do they need one? This is one of the arguments I have seen. They haven’t had an ecumenical council in 1000 years; so what? Why is it necessary? The councils weren’t necessarily a good thing, they were a part of the way the church operated when the Roman Empire existed, hence the term ecumenical.

I think it could also be argued that the councils established a sort of artificial unity that was only apparent to those within the Roman Empire. Those who were outside of the empire were excluded from this union though. So the result was a schism with the Assyrians and another with the Orientals both of whom ended up outside the Roman Empire. Then later was a split between the Byzantine east and the Roman west.
 
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Yes the Latin Church theoretically has regional governance in metropolitan archbishops and bishops’ conferences… the authority of metropolitans eroded over the centuries. Regional synods died out, but modern bishops’ conferences are gradually replacing them, but at this time still rely on Rome for any real authority.

Of course the Eastern Churches in full communion with Rome still use a true regional synodal form of governance.
 
No the medieval Church, or at least the early medieval Church, had very real regional governance in terms of local synods.
As I understand it, the Church gradually became more and more centralized from the late medieval period on.
It’s only in the last 150-200 years or so that the Pope has personally appointed nearly every bishop in the world… which really is an absurd idea and a complete break with tradition.

Of course since Vatican II we’ve seen the national bishops’ conferences become more important.

Do you think the Pope appointed bishops in colonial Mexico? Nope. It’s a very novel situation we find ourselves in. The degree of papal power we see today is very novel.
 
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Is not the title of this thread and the accompanying article by Mr. Akin polemical in an obvious way?
 
Polemic: “ an aggressive attack on or refutation of the opinions or principles of another”

I wouldn’t call this thread or the article aggressive?
 
nightshade said:
Polemic: “ an aggressive attack on or refutation of the opinions or principles of another”
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There is more than one definition of the word polemic. It can refer to a piece of writing in which a person argues strongly for or against something. For example, if someone argues strongly that he is Catholic and not Eastern Orthodox because he rejected the idea that a “small, ethnically limited, and internally fractured communion which does not possess the admittedly divine institution of the papacy” could be the true Church of Christ.
 
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twf said:
Of course since Vatican II we’ve seen the national bishops’ conferences become more important.

Do you think the Pope appointed bishops in colonial Mexico? Nope. It’s a very novel situation we find ourselves in. The degree of papal power we see today is very novel.
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:man_shrugging:t2: Not sure what the point of these comments is. My point was simple—one guy for 1B Catholics is too much. The Orthodox are right on this issue—there should be regional authority. Local conferences of bishops accomplish very little, juridically. No real power of governance.
 
Yes, I was agreeing. Pointing out how we gradually went from real regional governance to an increasingly centralized Church… a trend that continued in the last couple centuries. It’s not the historic norm even for us. Yet the rise of national bishops’ conferences in the past half century has seen a gradual move towards some decentralization.
 
twf said:
the rise of national bishops’ conferences in the past half century has seen a gradual move towards some decentralization.
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Although I have my doubts, I very much hope you’re right about this—the direction things are moving in. So far, I haven’t seen anything from Pope Francis to indicate he would delegate this authority.
 
I have little doubt that is the direction the Church is heading. It will just take more time. Regional variation already exists on a range of issues… yes, a Roman approval is still required, but the recommendations of local conferences seem to be generally accepted.
 
Fair enough. It’s an interesting concept nonetheless and the author had a similar path to Catholicism that I did.

I still think there are only two “traditions” of Christianity that are valid and those are Orthodox and Catholic.
 
I personally think it is by the grace of God that given that 99% of the heresies in Christianity came from the East in the first 1000 years, the Eastern Orthodox remain the closest to Catholicism in terms of dogma.
 
I said something similar to my wife today - That it’s so wild how close dogmatically and liturgically Eastern Orthodox is to Catholicism even after almost 1000 years of schism but you have Protestant churches less than 500 years removed and it’s like a whole different religion (think southern Baptists or jehovah witnesses, etc).

The true presence has been maintained by the East and the Western Catholic Churches, which is like CORE New Testament and early Christianity but it has been completely abandoned and denounced as idolatry by many Protestants.
 
I enjoyed the article as it puts some things in perspective for me. Equally enjoyable, is a response that followed written by an Orthodox citing 5 things Orthodox could learn from looking at Protestant practice. Good points were raised from both perspectives.
 
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