Why I Can't Be Catholic

  • Thread starter Thread starter TristanCross
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
TristanCross,

You are so right about the freedom that belongs to a spiritually born-again believer in Jesus Christ. We who are trusting in Christ alone as our Savior. Salvation is found in no other. We can know that we have eternal life and we can have assurance of our salvation now because of the completed work of Christ at Calvary where He paid our sin debt in full. Christ is no longer to be re-offered or re-presented. Hebrews 7:27 says, “He sacrificed for their sins once for all when He offered Himself.” God said no sacrifice without the shedding of blood could ever remit sins.

As a former roman catholic, I remember the constant fear and guilt I had whenever I missed Mass. I wondered did I do enough penance, did I pray enough and hard enough. Am I really worthy to participate in the Eucharist. Do I need to do more works of charity. Then their was the fear of purgatory and where I would spend eternity. I never had the peace of Christ that passes all understanding. I didn’t even have a relationship with God. I was never taught that I could confess my sins directly to God. What I knew about Christ was that He was supposed to be the bread inside the Host and sacrificed every time Mass was said. I never read the Bible. There were no Bibles in church. All I had was my Missal, full of prayers that were meaningless to me because they didn’t come from my own heart.

For the roman catholic, their relationship with God is based on what they do rather than what Christ has done, thus they never know where they stand. How sad that they deny the all sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross. By receiving the sacraments and doing works of charity Catholics believe they can merit for themselves and for the dead the graces needed for sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Whenever they commit a grave sin, the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification. They have a long journey through the Sacrifice of the Mass, sacraments, good works, merit, veneration of Mary and the Saints. Each one is required to partake of the sacraments in order to be good enough to die in the state of “sanctifying grace” and then to be saved or at least, it is hoped, to land for a time in purgatory. Even on a natural level one wonders how a Catholic can have any hope. The sacrifice of the Mass and the sacraments are such that the most they can promise is a pseudo-hell called purgatory.

But the Scriptures tells us there’s only 2 places in the hereafter: heaven and hell. Its appointed once for man to die, then the judgment. There’s no stopping off place for purification. There was a time when the RCC believed in limbo, until a pope admitted there’s no such “state”.

Yet they can never have this assurance of eternal life with God because their salvation is never settled in this life. It is a sin for a Catholic to know salvation is secured. Canon 16 of the Council of Trent states, “If anyone says that he will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance even to the end let him be anathema.” This canon is in direct opposition to the Bible. The apostle John wrote his epistle to believers of Jesus Christ, in order that you may know that you have eternal life (1 John 5:13).
Every decision made by our holy father is absolute truth. This power of gift was granted to Peter, it is ignorant for us to assume that Jesus only meant that Peter would be the first and last leader and that after his death no one would take his place.

You seem to have issues with us holding blessed Mary so highly, well I ask you, don’t you love your mother? Do you not think Christ loves and respects his? How will he deny his mother? If she asks him to save a soul who otherwise would go to hell, he will save that soul.

There is nothing to fear in being a Catholic, we have the honor of being the Church that Christ established along with the Orthodox Church. No other Church holds that right and because every other Church has changed in accordance to what their founders believed, it can not be correct because a human cannot and is not qualified to do so. However, the Pope who through Christs words is entitled to make changes.

Other faiths follow what one man or many men have believed, such as the protastants who even now blatantly disregard parts of the Bible, but how? The word of God can not be half true, or 90% true, if we are to not believe certain parts of the Bible, whos to say any of its true? Who’s to decide what is and isn’t? Martin Luther? Any human who is imperfect?

Your works of charity are never complete, just as Christ did, we too do. We don’t do good for a part of our lives and hope that just by believing in Christ that it is enough, the Devil believes in Christ too, is that who you choose to get your philosophy from?

Christ did sacrifice himself once and only once, but his sacrifice is eternal, he comes down during every mass as a reminder of our everlasting covenant. His blood and flesh are there, no longer wine and bread.

A Catholic priest not too long ago questioned why we believe this, he continued to offer mass but didn’t believe it was truly Jesus coming down. One day during mass as he raised the Eucharist, blood began to flow down from it and it became flesh. This is a true story told to me by many priests.

When you confess, you do confess your sins to God, that priest is only there to forgive your sins through Christ, not through himself. But this sacrament is not a guarantee to forgiveness, you can only be forgiven when you are truly sorry and repent by which ever way that priest asks, and if wished by you to do even more then he asks.

Of course it is difficult for us to enter heaven, but scripture says we are to be cleansed through fire to enter the kingdom of heaven, that fire is equal to that of hell, but it is not eternal and it is not a seperation from God, that is only for those who enter hell.

You did not seek the answers while you were a Catholic and chose a faith to where you feel its easier to enter heaven, the cross is never easy to carry, that is your mistake.
 
As a nonCatholic Christian, I personally feel so much freedom. I feel happy, full of God, and peaceful. I feel safe and secure in Jesus Christ. Confident and prepared for His coming.

But as a Catholic, I feel scared. I feel agony, fear, anxiety, worry, etc. I feel like I’m dishonoring God by talking to other heavenly creatures.

Is it not right to go with my conscience? Or would it be better for me to live a life in constant fear?

About as disingenuous a post as I’ve ever seen in here.

Your Premise is Corrupt & Flawed. It superimposes upon us a state that does not exist for a Catholic. In short, you won’t be a Catholic ( at least not yet) because you are Blinded by your own self-righteousness & Pride… I will Pray for you.
 
Catholicism is the life of Christ on earth. It is not an organization as much as a divine organism. It is life and in abundance.

It is easy to be happy and comfortable if you are not concerned with your behavior. I had a friend who believed that Jesus died for the forgiveness of all sin so all sin is okay to participate in and he is still going to heaven. Was he happy he found a way to turn God into what he wanted him to be.

To me this is what all protestanism has done, manufactured a God that is not concerned with what you think, say or do. He is only concerned that you know his name and tell him occasionally that he’s the boss. What utter trash.

Does a God come down to earth and die an ignoble death on a cross to found a religion and then let people pick and chose if they want to follow this religion or start their own. No. He who rejects you rejects me and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me. If you have rejected the apostles you have rejected Christ. The apostles started only one church.

God created a world a moral world and gave us the tools to go out and conquer the world and ourselves so that we can be champions who fought the good fight. We are not here to have fussy feelings and warm embraces we are here as a holy army in a conflict between those followers of God and Pricipalities and Powers. These are the two main choirs of which came the angels that rejected christ and became devils. We are the church militant.

Protestanism not the people is a poison. The concept that men can create a religion as good or better then God. This is the root of all the evils of today. This is what has brought us to the corruption of relativism. In order to remain seperate from the truth one must reject whatever the church states no matter how sensible. So now the world preaches there is no absolute truth, it is only relative to how you want to see it. I sometimes wonder if King Henry and Martin Luther werent close cousins to lucifer.

As far as evangelism goes I would prefer to see our church fathers more concerned with what they are offering the children than bringing in strangers. First fix the problems at home then go out and invite in guests. Before we bring in any strangers we need to do a lot of spring cleaning.
 
You seem to have issues with us holding blessed Mary so highly, well I ask you, don’t you love your mother? Do you not think Christ loves and respects his? How will he deny his mother? If she asks him to save a soul who otherwise would go to hell, he will save that soul.
The RCC teaches that Mary is the Queen of Heaven, a perpetual virgin, and the co-redemptress who ascended into heaven. Pope John Paul II pronounced Mary as "Co-Redemptrix [co-redeemer], Mediatrix [mediator] of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God. In Scripture, however, she is portrayed as an obedient, believing servant of God, who became the mother of Jesus. None of the other attributes mentioned by the RCC have any basis in the Bible. The idea of Mary being the co-redemptress and another mediator between God and man is unbiblical… Acts 4:12 declares that Jesus is the only redeemer. 1 Timothy 2:5 proclaims that Jesus is the only mediator between God and men.

In the NT when a woman said to Jesus: “Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breasts that nursed you.” Jesus responded: " Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. Nowhere in the Holy Scriptures do we read that Christ or the apostles ever taught that Mary was to be venerated. Nowhere do we read that Mary intercedes for anyone.Can you cite one verse in the NT to show that the disciples or ANYBODY ever sought her advise for anything or intercessions? The Bible tells us that all prayers are to be directed to God alone and Christ is the only mediator between man and God.

To be sinless, Mary would have to have been born without a sin nature. She would have to have been born of a virgin who was supernaturally impregnated, like Jesus was. Mary herself acknowledged the doctrinal truth that all have sinned and are in need of a Savior. She declared: “And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior” (Luke 1:47
You have blatantly ignored most of this thread by saying that we resacrifice Christ, we do not have a relationship with Him, and that we believe His sacrifice was not one, eternal and sufficient.
If you have a copy of the catechism you can look this up. I have listed the paragraphs in parentheses. The RCC teaches the sacrifice of Jesus must continue daily on its altars for the reparation of the sins of the living and the dead (1414)

“In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.” (1367)
“When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ’s Passover, and it is made present. As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out.” (1364)

How is the Sacrifice of the Cross continued on earth?
The Sacrifice of the Cross is continued on earth through the Sacrifice of the Mass.(1264)

How does the Mass re-present Calvary?
The Mass re-presents Calvary by continuing Christ’s sacrifice of himself to his heavenly Father. In the Mass, no less than on Calvary, Jesus really offers his life to his heavenly Father. This is possible because in the Mass is the same priest, Jesus Christ, who with his human will (united to the divine) offers himself; and it is the same victim, Jesus Christ, whose human life (united with the divinity) is sacrificed. (1269)

Does the Mass detract from the one, unique Sacrifice of the Cross?
The Mass in no way detracts from the one, unique Sacrifice of the Cross, because the Mass is the same Sacrifice as that of the Cross. (1277)

Catholic teaching denies that Christ’s sacrifice was sufficient to expiate all the guilt and punishment of sin. Instead they teach a cleansing fire is needed for “those who are expiating their sins in purgatory” (1475). The doctrine of Purgatory is an utter denial of the sufficiency of Christ’s perfect sacrifice for sin, yet Catholics are asked to accept it as a grace (1473).
 
. . . For the roman catholic, their relationship with God is based on what they do rather than what Christ has done, thus they never know where they stand. How sad that they deny the all sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross. By receiving the sacraments and doing works of charity Catholics believe they can merit for themselves and for the dead the graces needed for sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Whenever they commit a grave sin, the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification. They have a long journey through the Sacrifice of the Mass, sacraments, good works, merit, veneration of Mary and the Saints. Each one is required to partake of the sacraments in order to be good enough to die in the state of “sanctifying grace” and then to be saved or at least, it is hoped, to land for a time in purgatory. Even on a natural level one wonders how a Catholic can have any hope. The sacrifice of the Mass and the sacraments are such that the most they can promise is a pseudo-hell called purgatory. . .
This paragraph alone reveals such a complete lack of understanding of the Catholic faith, and serves as such a belittlement of the millions upon millions of true followers of Christ in his Church, that in my opinion it practically renders your other posts meaningless.
 
I have been lurking for the most part on this thread lately but I must say this.

There is no possible disscussion with yankee_drifter. He is attempting to use Scipture alone and imposing his personal interpretation upon that.

As Catholics we have more than just the Scriptures, we also have Tradition. Also we do not personally interpret the Scriptures.

Then there is his obvisious bias against the Church.

There is no possible way to enter into a fruitful dialogue.
 
The RCC teaches that Mary is the Queen of Heaven, a perpetual virgin, and the co-redemptress who ascended into heaven. Pope John Paul II pronounced Mary as "Co-Redemptrix [co-redeemer], Mediatrix [mediator] of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God. In Scripture, however, she is portrayed as an obedient, believing servant of God, who became the mother of Jesus. None of the other attributes mentioned by the RCC have any basis in the Bible. The idea of Mary being the co-redemptress and another mediator between God and man is unbiblical… Acts 4:12 declares that Jesus is the only redeemer. 1 Timothy 2:5 proclaims that Jesus is the only mediator between God and men.

In the NT when a woman said to Jesus: “Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breasts that nursed you.” Jesus responded: " Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. Nowhere in the Holy Scriptures do we read that Christ or the apostles ever taught that Mary was to be venerated. Nowhere do we read that Mary intercedes for anyone.Can you cite one verse in the NT to show that the disciples or ANYBODY ever sought her advise for anything or intercessions? The Bible tells us that all prayers are to be directed to God alone and Christ is the only mediator between man and God.

To be sinless, Mary would have to have been born without a sin nature. She would have to have been born of a virgin who was supernaturally impregnated, like Jesus was. Mary herself acknowledged the doctrinal truth that all have sinned and are in need of a Savior. She declared: “And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior” (Luke 1:47

If you have a copy of the catechism you can look this up. I have listed the paragraphs in parentheses. The RCC teaches the sacrifice of Jesus must continue daily on its altars for the reparation of the sins of the living and the dead (1414)

“In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.” (1367)
“When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ’s Passover, and it is made present. As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out.” (1364)

How is the Sacrifice of the Cross continued on earth?
The Sacrifice of the Cross is continued on earth through the Sacrifice of the Mass.(1264)

How does the Mass re-present Calvary?
The Mass re-presents Calvary by continuing Christ’s sacrifice of himself to his heavenly Father. In the Mass, no less than on Calvary, Jesus really offers his life to his heavenly Father. This is possible because in the Mass is the same priest, Jesus Christ, who with his human will (united to the divine) offers himself; and it is the same victim, Jesus Christ, whose human life (united with the divinity) is sacrificed. (1269)

Does the Mass detract from the one, unique Sacrifice of the Cross?
The Mass in no way detracts from the one, unique Sacrifice of the Cross, because the Mass is the same Sacrifice as that of the Cross. (1277)

Catholic teaching denies that Christ’s sacrifice was sufficient to expiate all the guilt and punishment of sin. Instead they teach a cleansing fire is needed for “those who are expiating their sins in purgatory” (1475). The doctrine of Purgatory is an utter denial of the sufficiency of Christ’s perfect sacrifice for sin, yet Catholics are asked to accept it as a grace (1473).
John Paul II may have called the Blessed Mother Co-Redemptrix or Mediatrix, but those are not teachings of the Church. They are not Dogma, but they are also not at odds with the teachings of the Church and are, currently, in the hands of the individual.
I think that those titles are very misleading and could do with some changes, also. We do not believe that Mary personally did anything to directly save us. It was indirect, through her giving birth to God Himself in the form of man, that she (indirectly) allowed Christ to save us.
She is Mediatrix because she is a great helper in heaven. Jesus talked about people praying together, and this is no different. We can go to our brothers and sisters who are already with God and ask them to pray for us and with us, too.
When Christ replies that ‘blessed is the one who hears me and keeps the Word of God’ rather than the womb that bore Him, He is right. Mary is great not only because God chose her, out of all the women in the world, to be His earthly mother, but because she followed Him all of her life, and through many trials and tribulations.

You misunderstand the Catechism. The Sacrifice in the Mass is not a re-sacrifice of Christ, but our way of gaining access to the one, eternal sacrifice. Christ’s sacrifice transcends time, He suffered for every sin ever committed, past, present and future. And through the Eucharist, which He tells us will become His flesh, that sacrifice is made present for us, on this very day, physically. In doing this, we are obeying His commands. “Whoever does not eat my flesh, has no life in Him.”
 
Not sure (and Yankee Drifter, please correct me if I’m wrong) but I believe Yankee is from a denomination (and it is) called C of C (Church of Christ).
Folks check out the history of this denomination, and you’ll find it quite interesting.
Martin Luther’s ideas hit these folks a little late as compared to other reformers.
Dave H
 
**-St. Francis de Sales, “The Catholic Controversy,” excerpt of chapter 1, slightly modified. Perhaps you should get a copy – it is my opinion that it will answer your questions, and I do not believe that a Protestant, sincere in his search, could remain separate from the Church if he read this book by the great Doctor of the Faith, St. Francis de Sales. **
This is the truth.

Good luck Protestants with the book , with the great St. Francis de Sales, my most fave saint!

Peace of Christ!
 
As a nonCatholic Christian, I personally feel so much freedom. I feel happy, full of God, and peaceful. I feel safe and secure in Jesus Christ. Confident and prepared for His coming.

But as a Catholic, I feel scared. I feel agony, fear, anxiety, worry, etc. I feel like I’m dishonoring God by talking to other heavenly creatures.

Is it not right to go with my conscience? Or would it be better for me to live a life in constant fear?
Tris,
How often do you read the Bible? Ask the Lord to bless you with the understanding of his Word. Keep in touch with your pastor if you have questions.

God bless,
bluelake
 
Dave H.

No, I am not a member of the church of Christ. That church has beliefs that I firmly disagree with. It has even been labeled a cult. I am a nondenominational evangelical. I believe in Biblical Christianity.
 
As a nonCatholic Christian, I personally feel so much freedom. I feel happy, full of God, and peaceful. I feel safe and secure in Jesus Christ. Confident and prepared for His coming.

But as a Catholic, I feel scared. I feel agony, fear, anxiety, worry, etc. I feel like I’m dishonoring God by talking to other heavenly creatures.

Is it not right to go with my conscience? Or would it be better for me to live a life in constant fear?
A reflection on Freedom in the Bible by John Sachs in a thin volume called “The Christian View of Humanity” that was a required reading in one of my seminary classes. You might find it very interesting when you contrast your sense of freedom and what Catholics believe.

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/08/24/freedom-in-the-bible/

In Christ,

dj
 
Dave H.

No, I am not a member of the church of Christ. That church has beliefs that I firmly disagree with. It has even been labeled a cult. I am a nondenominational evangelical. I believe in Biblical Christianity.
[SIGN]Someone should tell him Biblical Christianity is Catholicism[/SIGN]
 
[sign]Someone should tell him Biblical Christianity is Catholicism[/sign]
Okay :).
Dave H.

No, I am not a member of the church of Christ. That church has beliefs that I firmly disagree with. It has even been labeled a cult. I am a nondenominational evangelical. I believe in Biblical Christianity.
Catholicism is Biblical Christianity. We did canonize the Bible after all…

Yours sincerely,
Murphy Bhoy.
 
If Biblical Christianity is Roman Catholicism, then everything this church teaches should agree with God’s word, the Holy Scriptures…
 
If Biblical Christianity is Roman Catholicism, then everything this church teaches should agree with God’s word, the Holy Scriptures…
… But everything the Church teaches is in agreement with Sacred Scripture. Also keep in mind that Sacred Scripture can only be viewed in the light of Sacred Tradition.

Yours sincerely,
Murphy Bhoy.
 
Nowhere do we read that Mary intercedes for anyone.
John 2:3-5
(3) When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.” (4) “Dear woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied, “My time has not yet come.” (5) His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
So Mary intercedes on behalf of the groom, and altough he states his time has not yet come, Jesus acquiesces to the intercession of Mary and she then mediates with the servants to instruct them to do exactly as Jesus says. In doing so, a miracle that might not otherwise of ocurred does, and those that might not have followed Jesus’ instructions do.

Or do they miss the parable of the Wedding at Cana and its meaning in the versions of the Bible you’ve been given?
 
If Biblical Christianity is Roman Catholicism, then everything this church teaches should agree with God’s word, the Holy Scriptures…
The Scriptures were never meant to be separated from the Church and Sacred Tradition.
 
TristanCross,

You are so right about the freedom that belongs to a spiritually born-again believer in Jesus Christ. We who are trusting in Christ alone as our Savior. Salvation is found in no other. We can know that we have eternal life and we can have assurance of our salvation now because of the completed work of Christ at Calvary where He paid our sin debt in full. Christ is no longer to be re-offered or re-presented. Hebrews 7:27 says, “He sacrificed for their sins once for all when He offered Himself.” God said no sacrifice without the shedding of blood could ever remit sins.

As a former roman catholic, I remember the constant fear and guilt I had whenever I missed Mass. I wondered did I do enough penance, did I pray enough and hard enough. Am I really worthy to participate in the Eucharist. Do I need to do more works of charity. Then their was the fear of purgatory and where I would spend eternity. I never had the peace of Christ that passes all understanding. I didn’t even have a relationship with God. I was never taught that I could confess my sins directly to God. What I knew about Christ was that He was supposed to be the bread inside the Host and sacrificed every time Mass was said. I never read the Bible. There were no Bibles in church. All I had was my Missal, full of prayers that were meaningless to me because they didn’t come from my own heart.

For the roman catholic, their relationship with God is based on what they do rather than what Christ has done, thus they never know where they stand. How sad that they deny the all sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross. By receiving the sacraments and doing works of charity Catholics believe they can merit for themselves and for the dead the graces needed for sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Whenever they commit a grave sin, the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification. They have a long journey through the Sacrifice of the Mass, sacraments, good works, merit, veneration of Mary and the Saints. Each one is required to partake of the sacraments in order to be good enough to die in the state of “sanctifying grace” and then to be saved or at least, it is hoped, to land for a time in purgatory. Even on a natural level one wonders how a Catholic can have any hope. The sacrifice of the Mass and the sacraments are such that the most they can promise is a pseudo-hell called purgatory.

But the Scriptures tells us there’s only 2 places in the hereafter: heaven and hell. Its appointed once for man to die, then the judgment. There’s no stopping off place for purification. There was a time when the RCC believed in limbo, until a pope admitted there’s no such “state”.

Yet they can never have this assurance of eternal life with God because their salvation is never settled in this life. It is a sin for a Catholic to know salvation is secured. Canon 16 of the Council of Trent states, “If anyone says that he will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance even to the end let him be anathema.” This canon is in direct opposition to the Bible. The apostle John wrote his epistle to believers of Jesus Christ, in order that you may know that you have eternal life (1 John 5:13).
Yankee,
I want to thank you for this post. It is very enlightening. It clearly demsonstrates how poorly catechized some catholics are about the faith. I can say this because, as someone who was raised catholic, left the Church and then returned, I can see the many poor or absent teachings you were given. I also see a problem in your inability to recognize what constituted proper penence, (often a problem with scrupulosity), a proper understanding of the mass, a proper understanding of the Eucharist etc.
All of these things undoubtedly led to your leaving the Church, not because the Church is wrong, but because what you believe the church to be is wrong.

Unfortunately this is all too common.

One thing that all Catholics need to work on is to be sure that we are properly catechized and that our children are properly catechized.

Peace
James
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top