TC,I would love to become Catholic. I just see these contradictions between Catholicism and God’s Word and I can’t help but think I’m twisting Scripture to support Catholicism.
I’m seeking Truth. I found Him, Jesus. Now, I’m trying to find out if this church’s claims to be His Church are true.
There is no other name we must be saved by other than Jesus. So why do I have to be saved by the name Catholic?
Thanks a bunch
You misunderstand grossly.Why has your pope claimed Mary as Mediatrix?
.
Repetitions are vain when they become automatic and mindless. God wants prayers from your own heart. He wants you to come to him personally and share your heart, not mere chants that were written by somebody else many years ago. I have seen catholic women screaming and crying when a pope dies and they chant loudly their rosary and hail Marys and the public thinks they are pious to do this. Watch etwn on TV and the nuns repeat Hail Mary over and over for an hour. I’ve had catholics tell me that Jesus’ prayer in the garden was repetitious! What an insult to our Lord! We do not know all that Jesus was praying. Just because he asked 3x of the Father to remove the cup, does not mean his prayers were repetitions. He prayed from the heart, not merely repeated a prayer written by someone.
Where did anyone say they hated him? That is such a harsh word would you nor agree. I don’t think Catholic’s hate him. I just think they hate what he did. You know love the sinner hate the sin kind of thing. Big difference.[SIGN]The hatred some catholics have for Martin Luther is amazing. Its also a tremendous waste of energy. Takes [/SIGN]a lot of energy to hate a person. And saying he had a mental illness is a cop-out. In those days monks were hidden away from the world and were heavily into self-mutilations. Even today there are still some catholics who wear tight cords around their waist under their clothing which are painful as an act of penance. This is what the RC church has taught. Christ never did.
John Tetzel did not act on his own. Pope Leo X commissioned Tetzel to travel throughout Germany to sell indulgences on behalf of the Church. The Roman Church gained great income from the direct sale of indulgences. And although this practice has been discontinued, the Roman Church still makes huge profits out of indulgences, by the alms which are encouraged when indulgences are sought, and by the sale of rosaries and other articles to which indulgences are attached.
The Gospel itself makes no distinction between eternal and temporal punishment. There is no suggestion that God reserves a clause relating to temporal punishment when he commands the Gospel of full forgiveness of sins to be preached. What would we think of a government that declared a general amnesty without reserve, but then later, when the offenders came forward, stated that it related only to certain kinds of offenses and not to others.
Are you saying that the church was not Catholic (universal) and Catholic’s aren’t Christians?What Jesus left on earth was left not just to 12 Apostles, but to 120 disciples who were in the same upper room together on the first Pentecost. These all were indwelt by and filled with the Holy Spirit who empowered them to carry the salvation message throughout the world. Not one of those 120 disciples was a Catholic. Nor were Peter, James, John, Thomas, or any of the other Apostles Catholics. Their immediate successors – Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, Linus, Cletus, etc. –[SIGN] were Christians, not Catholics. [/SIGN]When, in the middle of the 2nd century, Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, was martyred, the crowd of onlookers called him the “father of Christians.” Referring to himself, Polycarp declared, “I am a Christian!” In the Bible we read, “And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.” (Act 11:26)
The Council of Nicaea, AD 325 - 225 years removed from the apostolic church - was a synod of Christian, not Catholic, bishops.
What was passed on by Christ’s disciples to their successors was not a religious denomination – Catholicism – but the simple grace-based Christian faith instituted by our Lord. History, the Bible, the writings of the early church saints, these offer no support whatever for Rome’s claims that Catholicism was the one and only true church founded by Jesus; nor that Christ ordained Peter as bishop of Rome and the first pope. The so-called “holy sacrifice of the Mass,” was unknown in the apostolic church; the Lord’s Supper was a memorial, not a reenactment, of Calvary, and there were no priests allegedly endowed with the power to take the place of Jesus here on earth. No works were required of the individual who wished to be saved, only faith in Christ Jesus. “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
What would be dishonest is if Catholics denied that any of our own Clergy or laymen had problems with not living a holy life, or denied some had mental illnesses. Your cop-out about what went on “In those days” is not only inaccurate, but based on the biases of Protestant writers who have distorted the truth. Look at Dr. Luther himself as an example. He lived in more than one monastic community of his order. He was (like most monastics) in an active order. While they live in common, and share meals in common, they also interact daily with the world. In his case it involved study and later teaching. Most, (as very few, quite a minority of Religious) are cloistered in a strict cloister, are “hidden away from the world.”The hatred some catholics have for Martin Luther is amazing. Its also a tremendous waste of energy. Takes a lot of energy to hate a person. And saying he had a mental illness is a cop-out. In those days monks were hidden away from the world and were heavily into self-mutilations. Even today there are still some catholics who wear tight cords around their waist under their clothing which are painful as an act of penance. This is what the RC church has taught. Christ never did.
Yes, Pope Leo did commission Tetzel, in the same way the the President of the United States commissions an Officer of the U.S. Army. He may or may not ever meet the officer. and the officer is duty bound to follow the Military code. Tetzel was disciplined because he did not follow what he was commissioned to do, but exceeded the limits set for raising the funds for the rebuilding St. Peters. I would defy you to show credible proof that the Church “still makes huge profits out of indulgences, by the alms which are engouraged when indulgences are sought, and by the sale of rosaries and other articles to which indulgences are attached.”John Tetzel did not act on his own. Pope Leo X commissioned Tetzel to travel throughout Germany to sell indulgences on behalf of the Church. The Roman Church gained great income from the direct sale of indulgences. And although this practice has been discontinued, the Roman Church still makes huge profits out of indulgences, by the alms which are encouraged when indulgences are sought, and by the sale of rosaries and other articles to which indulgences are attached.
Then we must be reading a different Gospel. In telling us what the Kingdom of God is like and what He has come to reveal Jesus tells us this story of the magistrate, which comes to us in the Gospel as a part of His instruction on what they are to know about their salvation. He was speaking of God’s justice in this passage, but as was His pattern, He made an anology to something that the populus could understand. Luke 12:57-59The Gospel itself makes no distinction between eternal and temporal punishment. There is no suggestion that God reserves a clause relating to temporal punishment when he commands the Gospel of full forgiveness of sins to be preached. What would we think of a government that declared a general amnesty without reserve, but then later, when the offenders came forward, stated that it related only to certain kinds of offenses and not to others.
There are other passages including how we are tried as by a Refiners fire, etc… I’ll supply them if Jesus words above are not sufficient.57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right? 58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison. 59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.
Do you know why Luther went to extremes and whipped himself? Read his own words. He found no peace in trying to obey all the rules and rituals of Catholicism. He was a man who sinned daily just like you and I do. His conscience was heavy with guilt. He was like Paul who said I do what I should not do, and the very thing I should do, I don’t do! Oh, wretched man am I! No matter how much penance Luther performed, he wondered if it was ever enough. When he finally had access to a complete Bible he read Paul’s epistles and understood the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Its not what man does for Christ, but what Christ did for man. Salvation is a free gift thanks to what Jesus did on the cross. Man can never do enough works because our righteous acts are like filthy rags to God. Only God the Son was the perfect sacrifice and only his blood can remit sins. His blood alone paid our sin debt in full. When Luther understood this he never whipped himself again because he knew he was forgiven.Mortification. What you call mutilation. Yup there were those who did multilate themselves, there were and probably are a few who like Dr. Luther went to excess, and imposed on themselves mortifications that went beyond what was allowed. Based on the Psychiatric profile of Dr. Erik Erikson (Protestant, and very well known psychiatrist, a leader in the field) if I had been Luther’s Superior, I would probably have been intimidated by him, due to his frequent outbursts, fits, and temper tantrums. (This of course would suppose that I had not been trained in modern medicine and specialized in Psychiatry, as neither was known or understood in the day.)
It is not the protestant church that claims infallibility but the catholic. The roman catholic church teaches that Christ established an infallible church, although we do not read that in Scriptures. Although Jesus promised to be with the church always, he never promised it would not fall into error. Paul wrote about all the problems the young churches were already experiencing. He said savage wolves from among the churches had entered teaching false doctrines and would continue to do so until Christ returns. But its the roman catholic church that says their church is infallible and their pope can speak infallibly. So be honest and admit there is no infallible church because man is fallible. The catholic church keeps saying we are the only true church that Christ established. We are the only apostolic church and Jesus promised to protect us from error. Yet you never want to admit the violence, power, wealth, and the scandals that have plagued your church since the beginning. These were the things Luther had the courage to complain about. Instead of addressing these issues and making much needed reforms, the catholic church found it easier to just expel this monk and later tried to have him executed.What I don’t understand is how Protestants can require an uneven playing field. It is ok for them to decry what they see as the excesses and the evils of individuals and the entire Catholic Church, but when an honest exposition of what Luther’s life was like is given, we are hateful, and copping out. (I like that, it is arcaine and reminds me of my youth.)
When discussing the actions of John Calvin hanging people in the public square for heretical views, or Luther and other “Reformers” behavior. When I bring up the murders of Catholics by the French Hugonots, or the Excesses of the Protestant Star Court in England that was far worse than the Spanish Inquisition, I’m told “That can’t be true, my Pastor never told me about that.” or “Only Catholics did that.” So please don’t get upset when a Catholic brings up the other side of the story when we are attacked, but rather be honest, and read history.
In the first place, who says a Catholic has to feel agony, fear, anxiety and worry? “No sir”, not indeed, Jesus tells us in the Gospel “Fear not”. On the contrary, let others fear and have all those negative feelings.As a nonCatholic Christian, I personally feel so much freedom. I feel happy, full of God, and peaceful. I feel safe and secure in Jesus Christ. Confident and prepared for His coming.
But as a Catholic, I feel scared. I feel agony, fear, anxiety, worry, etc. I feel like I’m dishonoring God by talking to other heavenly creatures.
Is it not right to go with my conscience? Or would it be better for me to live a life in constant fear?
Once again it would seem that the way you define Infalliblity (and it would seem confuse it with Impeccablitly) is quite different than how the Catholic Church defines it. So tell me, what were you taught that Infallibility means? No fair peeking at Catholic sites, be honest, tell us what your sources say. Based on your previous allegations of what the Catholic Church teaches, I’m fairly confindent that they are distortions of the true teachings.Filioque
Do you know why Luther went to extremes and whipped himself? Read his own words. He found no peace in trying to obey all the rules and rituals of Catholicism. He was a man who sinned daily just like you and I do. His conscience was heavy with guilt. He was like Paul who said I do what I should not do, and the very thing I should do, I don’t do! Oh, wretched man am I! No matter how much penance Luther performed, he wondered if it was ever enough. When he finally had access to a complete Bible he read Paul’s epistles and understood the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Its not what man does for Christ, but what Christ did for man. Salvation is a free gift thanks to what Jesus did on the cross. Man can never do enough works because our righteous acts are like filthy rags to God. Only God the Son was the perfect sacrifice and only his blood can remit sins. His blood alone paid our sin debt in full. When Luther understood this he never whipped himself again because he knew he was forgiven.
It is not the protestant church that claims infallibility but the catholic. The roman catholic church teaches that Christ established an infallible church, although we do not read that in Scriptures. Although Jesus promised to be with the church always, he never promised it would not fall into error. Paul wrote about all the problems the young churches were already experiencing. He said savage wolves from among the churches had entered teaching false doctrines and would continue to do so until Christ returns. But its the roman catholic church that says their church is infallible and their pope can speak infallibly. So be honest and admit there is no infallible church because man is fallible. The catholic church keeps saying we are the only true church that Christ established. We are the only apostolic church and Jesus promised to protect us from error. Yet you never want to admit the violence, power, wealth, and the scandals that have plagued your church since the beginning. These were the things Luther had the courage to complain about. Instead of addressing these issues and making much needed reforms, the catholic church found it easier to just expel this monk and later tried to have him executed.
Is this the church Christ built? Suffered and died horribly for? He died so that men can be saved. Instead of squabbling about who’s church is right, why not look after your own soul, get right with God, go directly to him with your sins, admit there’s nothing you can do to be worthy of heaven or save yourself, accept Christ’s gift of eternal life and go witness to others the Gospel so they too can have salvation.
I did have to answer this statement in it’s own thread. How deluded the writer or preacher was who filled your head with this Rot. What did Dr. Luther get his Doctorate in, and teach at Catholic Universities before he fell into some of his more insane moments? Well how about Sacred Scripture. Now how is it that Dr. Luther obtained a Doctorate in Sacred Scripture and never had access to the complete Bible?Filioque
…When he finally had access to a complete Bible he read Paul’s epistles and understood the true gospel of Jesus Christ. ,.
How wonderful to be able to see the collection there. When I was there last, we arrived a half hour before closing and had to breeze through to get to the Sistine Chapel before they closed. We then had to make the devotions that one of the members of the little group I sometimes travel with cannot go without. They insist on trying the Museum and Department Store Cafe wherever we go.Friends,
Is there any doubt among you that the group of twelve apostles and Mary, Mother of God, gathered on the day of Pentecost, was the true Church founded by Jesus Christ?
And, is there any doubt that this Church is the Roman, Catholic and Apostolic Church?
It was a blessing for me to visit the Vatican Museums last September. There I clearly saw the continuity, over the centuries, of my Church. It really goes back to the first century of our era.