Why I ceased being an organ donor

[rpp]

This is exactly why I have decided to rescind my organ donor status.

The only real difference here is that the doctor got caught. How many have not?

A respected California transplant doctor faces charges he hastened a comatose man’s death to retrieve his organs – a far-reaching case that could impact the nation’s organ donation industry.

Dr. Hootan Roozrokh, 34, is accused of ordering excessive doses of drugs to expedite the death of Ruben Navarro, a 25-year-old man who had suffered from a debilitating nerve disease since he was 9, according to the criminal complaint.

{snip}

In a pretrial hearing last week, Dr. Laura Lubarsky, a critical-care specialist, testified she would not have ordered morphine or the sedative Ativan as Roozrokh allegedly did. She said she was called into the operating room to monitor Navarro after he was taken off life support and to pronounce him dead.

Lubarsky told the court she heard Roozrokh order a nurse to give Navarro more “candy,” meaning additional drugs.

Full story from CNN: cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/03/transplant.trial/index.html

It is not just to kill a person to save another. One cannot do evil even with a good intent. It this a result of a culture that accepts euthanasia? A person has dignity only if they can “contribute”? So if the only thing a person can contribute is their organs, then they deserve death?

 

[jmcrae]

If the organs were full of a deadly overdose of drugs, how useful were they for transplant?

I have a lot of questions about organ donation, as well. So far, I am leaning in favour of it (because people need organs, and so far we don’t have any other way to provide them), but I get nervous about certain aspects of it. For example, I am not sure that people are completely dead when their organs are harvested - and I know that, for sure, they are beyond the point of no return - but if the organs are still alive when they are harvested, then doesn’t that mean that the person was not quite dead, yet?

My father’s life was saved by a donated kidney, so I want to be in favour of organ donation. But I want to be able to tell people to donate their organs with a clear conscience that they aren’t going to be murdered on their deathbeds.

 

[bluerose]

It was my understanding that if a person is brain dead and only machines are keeping the heart and lungs working, then the person is legally dead and his/her organs may be harvested.

I have heard that after a person has been declared brain dead, and they are organ donors, the heart/lung machine is usually kept going because some organs need to be transplanted within a few hours of being harvested.

I guess brain death is the point of no return and even if a body still has blood and oxygen circulating, it’s still dead because it is not the brain that is orchestrating the circulation. Turn the machines off, the person will not breathe nor will their heart pump on its own.

At least, that’s how I understand it. Maybe someone else knows more.

 

[apricot_yogurt]

I would worry, that while I was still alive, there would be talk of it, particulaly if a percentage of people with the same condition did go on to become suitable for organ donation.

 

[lduncan]

There are 2 different procedures for organ donation. One is after brain death has been declared. In this case, it sounds like it was a case of donation after cardiac death (DCD) where the procedures differ from donation after brain death.

DCD is an option if the decision to remove care has been made and it is likely for death to follow quickly. In DCD the person is taken to the OR on the ventilator and life sustaining drugs. Once in the OR, the ventilator is removed, the drugs stopped, and “the clock” started. If the person dies within an acceptable period of time for the organs of interest to be viable, retrieval proceeds. If they do not die shortly, the person is returned to a hospital room so the family can be present with them.

 

[hasikelee]

This is why I feel stuck regarding organ donation.

I would love to be an organ donor. But, these cases represent times of emergency, usually without a medical advocate or loved one present, and the choice is usually made immediately, with no consultation from other doctors or an ethics director.

I’d hate to be in a car accident with my hubby, and be in this situation, unable to advocate for his life because I am also hurt. Or vice versa. Other family members would be too far away, or perhaps not even contacted yet. It would be too late.

 

[roanoker]

These cases are anomalies. The overwhelming majority of organs for donation are legitimate. You will find charlatans in every field of endevour(including the religious ones). Roanoker

 

[drafdog]

An organ transplant results in a person who is obliged to take extremely expensive drugs for the duration of his/her life. This means that the cost is borne either by the family who pays thousands of dollars per month at a cost to the other family members, the insurance company at a greatly increased premium cost for all clients, or the government at a similar cost to the government health care system and the taxpayers. The fact that transplanted organs last an average of some five years means that the expensive surgeries involved are repeated over and over for a single patient.
Let’s keep the experimentation in the laboratory and when we can actually replace an organ with the patient’s own tissue, then start working on people.

Matthew

 

[jmcrae]

An organ transplant results in a person who is obliged to take extremely expensive drugs for the duration of his/her life. This means that the cost is borne either by the family who pays thousands of dollars per month at a cost to the other family members, the insurance company at a greatly increased premium cost for all clients, or the government at a similar cost to the government health care system and the taxpayers. The fact that transplanted organs last an average of some five years means that the expensive surgeries involved are repeated over and over for a single patient.
Let’s keep the experimentation in the laboratory and when we can actually replace an organ with the patient’s own tissue, then start working on people.

Matthew

Thank you for your opinion. I respect it, and I know that when it’s nobody you know, it doesn’t matter whether they die now, or later. (I have a friend who wonders why the Widow of Zarapheth would want to feed her son one last meal before he starves to death, in that story in the Bible. My friend, also, has never personally known anyone who was dying.)

The past five years with my Dad have been very precious, though. He won’t be getting a second transplant, but I am really glad that he had the first one, because it gave us the opportunity to deal with all the stuff from the past, and get through all the anger and disappointment that had not been dealt with yet. By the way, he was able to keep working (he is an artist), and he paid for his own drugs - and yes, they’re expensive, but not “thousands” of dollars.

 

[NoxSineStellae]

It is my belief that if you are willing to take an organ, you must be willing to give one. If I was not an organ donor, I would not accept a transplant from someone else. Since I am willing to be put on a transplant list should the need arise, I am a donor.

I’ve never been scared, except for the time I stupidly read Coma the night before major knee surgery

 

[NTOT]

I get nervous about certain aspects of it. For example, I am not sure that people are completely dead when their organs are harvested - and I know that, for sure, they are beyond the point of no return - but if the organs are still alive when they are harvested, then doesn’t that mean that the person was not quite dead, yet?

Does a man’s soul not depart this world upon brain death (all brain cells fully dead) or does it wait until his body is fully dead including all donated organs? Would this be why Extreme Unction is still valid shortly after ones death, because their body is not fully cellularly dead? If someone carries another’s organs around, is their soul perpetually stuck on earth until its donated organs finally die? The reason I ask, is because could a person’s body be raised from the dead when a portion of it is still alive somewhere else or does it cause a theological problem?
At what point does donation of organs become unacceptable, or put another way, how much of a person’s body can be transplanted before it is unnaceptable (assuming sufficient advancement in medical technology)? Some will say you can’t do a head transplant. But what if we looked at it from a different angle. If a leg can be replaced, how about two legs? How about two arms and two legs? How about two arms legs and torso? Does it now become considered a head transplant?
Sorry for rambling, but these are certain aspects about organ transplants that make me nervous as well.

 

[daveundis]

This is exactly why I have decided to rescind my organ donor status.

If you are going to opt out of donating your organs when you die, you should also opt out of receiving an organ should you ever need one to live.

Our transplant system lets people take without giving. It’s no wonder there’s such a large organ shortage.

There is a simple way to put a big dent in that shortage – allocate donated organs first to people who have agreed to donate their own organs when they die.

Anyone who wants to donate their organs to others who have agreed to donate theirs can join LifeSharers. LifeSharers is a non-profit network of organ donors who agree to offer their organs first to other organ donors when they die. Membership is free at www.lifesharers.org or by calling 1-888-ORGAN88. There is no age limit, parents can enroll their minor children, and no one is excluded due to any pre-existing medical condition.

 

[GodsPrincess]

An organ transplant results in a person who is obliged to take extremely expensive drugs for the duration of his/her life. This means that the cost is borne either by the family who pays thousands of dollars per month at a cost to the other family members, the insurance company at a greatly increased premium cost for all clients, or the government at a similar cost to the government health care system and the taxpayers. The fact that transplanted organs last an average of some five years means that the expensive surgeries involved are repeated over and over for a single patient.
Let’s keep the experimentation in the laboratory and when we can actually replace an organ with the patient’s own tissue, then start working on people.

Matthew

i take a little bit of offense to this as i am sure you would feel vastly different if you ever had to face having a transplant. because i have dire heart/lung problems i am possibly looking at a transplant in the future. i cant tell you how much it breaks my heart when someone writes off the worthiness of my life just because of money or precious medical time. you cannot put a price tag or tell someone that they are not worthy of living just because it may be a bit more expensive. my life is very precious to me and so is the lives of my loved ones. I would never put a price tag on the lives of those I loved, nor would I feel burderned. If 5 yrs is all it will last for? Then that’s five years more that I have to enjoy with them…

And actually, I am involved with groups to do with children and families with congenital heart defects, and that 5 yr thing is a crock of hogwash. I know of people who have had heart transplants and 15 yrs on they are living life like normal especially with the constant advancing of medical science.

Thanks be to Jesus for all those who have a heart for organ donation (excuse the weak pun!)

 

[puzzleannie]

I am somewhat suspicious of the facts behind the news story, because I have worked in a large medical center which pioneered organ transplants, and at least into the early 90s, doctor who would be doing the transplant or harvesting the organs did not participate in the care of the dying patient or make any decisions regarding his treatment and the team was called in to harvest only when the original doctors declared death. I would wait for more details before making any kind of judgement, and until then, my donor sticker stays on my drivers license where it belongs.

 

[NTOT]

If you are going to opt out of donating your organs when you die, you should also opt out of receiving an organ should you ever need one to live.

Why is that? Is it because someone who does not donate is not worthy of receiving? Is it the intent of wanting to donate, or actually donating. Does it matter that some cannot donate? Does blood donation count? Some people cannot do that either.

Our transplant system lets people take without giving. It’s no wonder there’s such a large organ shortage.

Should the system be set up to be vengeful to those who do not give. What criteria would you suggest? Does someone have to have already donated or just be willing to donate after they die? Anyone can request to be a donor last minute before they need a transplant.

There is a simple way to put a big dent in that shortage – allocate donated organs first to people who have agreed to donate their own organs when they die.

For what period of time should they have agreed to do this? 2 years before they need an organ? Last minute? 5 years?

 

[puzzleannie]

I also think it is somewhat unrealistic to insist that a prospective organ recipient have been a registered donor first. For one thing, most of the former have been chronically ill and disqualified from donating for many years before they receive the donation.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Well I see a lot of misconceptions here that need addressed. I worked for 19 years in an ICU and spent a lot of time caring for brain-dead patients who were being prepared for organ donation. First of all, I have never seen an organ donation done without family or medical advocate consent. Ever. A person may have a document that states he wants to donate organs, but that has no binding legal authority, it merely expresses his wishes. The family or whoever is the advocate must consent to the donation.

Brain death criteria are very strict. Today, the best gauge of that are cerebral blood flow studies. If there is no blood flow to the brain, the brain is dead, period. The brain cannot survive without blood for more than a few minutes. EEG’s are also done, but if there is no blood flow you will have a flat EEG. Also, once a person is declared brain dead, he is legally dead, and life suppport must be removed within a certain period of time. So a brain dead person is going to have life support removed whether he is an organ donor or not. And often it is very difficult to keep a body functioning when the brain is dead. The organs must be perfused with blood during the whole process, and that can be very difficult, as the brain is the controller of the heart, blood pressure, respirations, etc.

I have to go to worknow, I will comment further this evening.

 

[jmcrae]

Does a man’s soul not depart this world upon brain death (all brain cells fully dead) or does it wait until his body is fully dead including all donated organs? Would this be why Extreme Unction is still valid shortly after ones death, because their body is not fully cellularly dead?

That’s a really good point.

If someone carries another’s organs around, is their soul perpetually stuck on earth until its donated organs finally die? The reason I ask, is because could a person’s body be raised from the dead when a portion of it is still alive somewhere else or does it cause a theological problem?

I don’t think so, because the Saints have their relics all over the world, and this doesn’t seem to pose any kind of a problem for the Church, so having one’s transplanted organs hither and yon would probably also not be a problem. God will certainly know how to put us back together when the time comes.

My sense of things when I read the Apocalypse is that none of us will be still alive when Jesus comes for us on the Last Day - it seems to me as though the world at that time will not be capable of sustaining life at all until the creation of the New Earth and the New Heavens, and after that, the Resurrection of the Dead (I think?), so there is little danger that someone could be alive and carrying your organs around in them. If so, then perhaps right away they would die and be restored again immediately to life with their own organs intact. (Maybe … ?)

Sorry for rambling, but these are certain aspects about organ transplants that make me nervous as well.

I’m glad I’m not the only one.

 

[hilde_the_dog]

rpp back to your point so you have decided not to donate your organs, if they were acceptable in the first place, becuase this doctor killed or accelerated the death of someone. what ever happened to give your life for some one else.

Draph your post sounds like you’re putting a price tag on life

 

[Lampo]

News study questions brain death.
Is brain death real death?
Another article on brain death

Just specify to your family, next-of-kin, a donor registry or whomever has the authority to donate your organs/tissue that you want to be a “tissue only” donor. The person is 100% dead when tissue is recovered. The donor is not hooked to *any *life support or *anything *for that matter.