Why I choose not to believe

[SPOKENWORD]

Everstruggling:

Hi,

I’m not trying to thumb my nose at anyone, nor am I trying to convert others to my point of view. I’m much, much too unhappy a person to try and recruit a team of followers.

I’m starting this thread because:

1. I haven’t come across a lot of people that feel/think the same way I do, and I’m interested if there are others that agree with my reasons
2. I could be missing something. :bigyikes:
3. In a way, it’s like a kind of prayer. A last ditch plea that God will show up and explain Himself. (Hmm, I know I’m going to catch flak for that comment)

I’ve had many great discussions about this with people on the site, and I’ve gained some great insights. But so far I’ve managed to cling tenuously to my doubt. Here’s why:

The question of whether or not God exists is totally irrelevant to me. I’m more than willing to concede that there is a first mover, that my moral compass in fact did come from somewhere, that I in fact do have a notion of perfection, that things exist. Fine, God exists, big deal. It’s as relevent to me as someone proving that “2” or “red” exist.

My problem is when people tell me that God is loving, or that God is involved in my life. I’ve never experienced God in my life at all. I’ve experienced countless **people **telling me that God is involved, but not God. If God is infinite, if God is all-powerful. Could he not once, just once, come down and tell me he’s here. That he knows what I’m going through? I mean he can right? Wouldn’t take any time at all, but he doesn’t. The idea that he exists, that he could do something like that, and that he won’t is so annoying, so hurtful, so blatently cruel, that I choose not to believe.

Gods Word says :If you seek Him you will find Him.Draw near to Him and He will draw near to you. You must submitt,surrender and yield to His Spirit. God Bless

 

[Aesq]

Everstruggling:

The question of whether or not God exists is totally irrelevant to me. I’m more than willing to concede that there is a first mover, that my moral compass in fact did come from somewhere, that I in fact do have a notion of perfection, that things exist. Fine, God exists, big deal.

If you believe that God exists and that God was a “first mover,” then you have seen God in your life. God was the first mover. God brought all you interact with everyday into existence. Every person you deal with, including all here who are reaching out to you in your pain and struggle with their love and charity, are God’s interaction with you. God created them. You and all these people are the sign of God’s love for you and his actions in your life. Do not give up. We all struggle. We all question. We all have doubts. God is reaching out to you. It can be a struggle to reach back.

You say you need a sign. Maybe the sign is all these people. Do you need to see gravity to know it is there? Do you need a sign that it exists? You don’t see it. You simply see its actions on everything around you. God can be the same way if you are willing to look at it that way. You do not see Him but you see the effects of God on the people around you. Like these people here.

I will pray for you in your struggle. Do not give up hope. You are loved. You are cared for. You will be prayed for. God is there and reaching out to you always.

 

[YinYangMom]

Here’s the thing…

you think you’re ‘choosing’ not to believe…
when in reality, you don’t believe because it is not His Will that you do so at this time.

We are each called to Him, we are always longing and searching for Him because we are made in His image and likeness, but we **find **Him, when the gift of the Holy Spirit is given to us by Him and the Holy Spirit grants us the gift of **knowing **Our Father.

Keep praying for the Spirit’s gifts of wisdom, understanding, fortitude, Counsel, Knowledge, Piety and Fear of the Lord.

You can’t take them, you can’t grab them, you can’t demand them - they are given - so continue to ask for them through prayer.

Peace be with you on your journey of faith. I pray it brings you to His Catholic Church.

YYM

 

[steve99]

(Matthew 7:7-8) “Ask, and it will be given to you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you. For the one who asks always receives; the one who searches always finds; the one who knocks will always have the door opened to him.”

And I would add “When you seek me you shall find me, when you seek me with all your heart I will let you find me.” (Jer 29:14)
I think the with “all your heart” is important. I heard someone talking once about seeking to really experience the Father’s love. He said he prayed every day for six months, asking God for an experience of His love before he was finally given one. God sometimes wants persistence.

 

[Penny_Plain]

I heard a good sermon from Chuck Swindoll on the radio this morning. The point: faith is harder than you think.

We’d all like to think that, if we’d actually met Jesus, we’d believe, right? There was a list:

– John the Baptist, in prison, sent a disciple to Jesus to ask, “Are you the Messiah?” This is the same guy who baptized Jesus, saw the dove, heard the voice of the Father, and said, “I’m not worthy to untie His sandal.”

– The people who knew Him and grew up with Him ran him out of the synagogue when he began to teach.

– The crowds never got it. He asked the disciples, “Who do the multitude say that I am?” They answered, “Elijah, Moses, one of that crowd.” He asked, “Who do YOU say that I am?” One guy answered.

– Of the 12, who saw him heal the sick and raise the dead, one disbelieved to the extent that he sold Him to the other team. Another refused to believe in the resurrection until he saw for himself. One followed him to the cross.

– Of the secular and religious leaders, only one got close, the one who asked, “Are you a king?”

– It goes on and on. It never occurred to Mary and Martha that he could raise Lazarus, despite their belief. (“Open the tomb.” “Lord, he will smell.”)

So, what’s the lesson? (This is Penny now, not Swindoll.) Believing is hard. It’s not something you can make yourself do, nor should you, probably. You can try to 1984 yourself; if you chant “love is hate” and “war is peace” long enough, you’ll probably start to believe it. I don’t think that self-deception pleases God, but how would I know?

Maybe the answer is that you do what you can, within the guidelines of your own conscience, and leave the rest to the One who made you. You can’t reason your way to something like this, which is why Aquinas and that crowd never did much for me. If you believe, they make sense when they’re going on about uncaused causes. If you don’t, they’re not going to convince you that the uncaused cause gives a rat’s patoot about your aching heart or dying child.

Keep asking, keep thinking, and He’ll take care of you. Live the best life you can here, and don’t worry too much about what happens after that. Live well, laugh, be grateful, keep your eyes open, and see what happens. Nobody understands the extent of the mercy and goodness of God.

One of my friends summed up his problem this way: “I believe God marks the fall of every sparrow. But I’ve never seen him catch one.”

 

[Paris_Blues]

Everstruggling:

Hi,

I’m not trying to thumb my nose at anyone, nor am I trying to convert others to my point of view. I’m much, much too unhappy a person to try and recruit a team of followers.

I’m starting this thread because:

1. I haven’t come across a lot of people that feel/think the same way I do, and I’m interested if there are others that agree with my reasons
2. I could be missing something. :bigyikes:
3. In a way, it’s like a kind of prayer. A last ditch plea that God will show up and explain Himself. (Hmm, I know I’m going to catch flak for that comment)

I’ve had many great discussions about this with people on the site, and I’ve gained some great insights. But so far I’ve managed to cling tenuously to my doubt. Here’s why:

The question of whether or not God exists is totally irrelevant to me. I’m more than willing to concede that there is a first mover, that my moral compass in fact did come from somewhere, that I in fact do have a notion of perfection, that things exist. Fine, God exists, big deal. It’s as relevent to me as someone proving that “2” or “red” exist.

My problem is when people tell me that God is loving, or that God is involved in my life. I’ve never experienced God in my life at all. I’ve experienced countless **people **telling me that God is involved, but not God. If God is infinite, if God is all-powerful. Could he not once, just once, come down and tell me he’s here. That he knows what I’m going through? I mean he can right? Wouldn’t take any time at all, but he doesn’t. The idea that he exists, that he could do something like that, and that he won’t is so annoying, so hurtful, so blatently cruel, that I choose not to believe.

Be careful Everstuggling.

The devil is trying to tempt you. BE VERY CAUTIOUS.

C’mon! God DOES exist. It only takes a human heart to respond to Him, to want to know Him. He CAN reveal Himself to you but YOU must be the one in order to want that. He waits for us and He wants to have a relationship with the creature made in His image and likeness.

I know we all have doubts but it takes faith, and I mean A LOT OF FAITH. That faith will increase as the years go by but you have to want more faith and ask for it. It will be tested (believe me, it’s happened to me as well) and that’s why it feels like God is not there but that’s what strengthens faith.

Faith is a gift from God.

Do you WANT to believe in God? Or are you just waiting for Him to “start the game” so to speak?

I’ll pray for you.

 

[Sherlock]

Penny Plain:

Keep asking, keep thinking, and He’ll take care of you. Live the best life you can here, and don’t worry too much about what happens after that. Live well, laugh, be grateful, keep your eyes open, and see what happens. Nobody understands the extent of the mercy and goodness of God.
/

So much for the idea that the road to salvation was narrow and difficult. Guess that Jesus dude just didn’t get it, huh? How dare he say that we have to love God with all of our heart and mind and soul. He should’ve said, “Hey, dude, don’t sweat it.”

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Hello Everstruggling,

I’ve noticed a couple of things through reading all the posts here.

1. You seem to want God on your terms. You want Him to show you Himself the way you want and when you want. Unfortunatly God doesn’t work on our terms, He has other plans.
2. Since God has not met you on your terms, you have given up on Him. You’ve decided that you’ve done enough and prayed enough, and you’ve decided that He doesn’t exist. Note that you’ve decided. You’ve made that choice.
3. You say that you don’t believe Jesus was God, but He said He was. Is he a liar, crazy or was He telling the truth?

Your posts sound like you have turned your back on God. You say you believe that He exists, and then you say that you have chosen not to believe in Him. Yet you still are questioning. It’s like you’ve turned your back, but you’re still looking over your shoulder, waiting to see what He’s going to do about it.

It just seems that you’ve set up a bunch of hoops that God has to jump through in order for you to accept him into your life. And I really think these hoops are the reason that you can’t feel God’s presence (even though it’s definitely there).

It reminds me of the Parable of the Rich Man in Luke 16:
“There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’ Abraham replied, ‘My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented. Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours.’ He said, ‘Then I beg you, father, send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.’ But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’”

God gave us Jesus, Moses, the prophets and still gives us holy examples of faith. He has done His part to lead us to Him, but we have to take the steps.

God bless you.

 

[JaneFrances]

Oh Everstruggling!

The title of your thread says so much! Belief is indeed a choice. No one can convince you to make that choice. No one can make that choice for you. No one can prove to you something that you will not choose to believe. No one, except the Lord. And while the Lord does choose to reveal Himself to certain people in extraordinary ways, we know that in His perfect justice He does not force Himself on anyone who is not willing.

This is the very nature of faith (not religion, but pure, essential faith). It is a gift. It is a gift that God gives you through grace. It, then, becomes a gift you give back to God. You may, as with any gift, reject it, neglect it, ingore it, or even misuse it. This is your choice.

I sense the seriousness and anguish with which you struggle in this search for faith! I urge you to make the choice, now, to know, love and serve the Lord. You may not feel the fullness of faith for sometime, but your choice will not be fruitless. Again, though, as you said it is a choice. If you choose to continue pruning the tree before it can flower, that is your choice.

As He is most perfect parent, God loves you, even if you don’t believe in Him!

 

[Mickey]

LORD, I BELIEVE; HELP MY UNBELIEF!
img184.imageshack.us/img184/2360/3barcross8rj.gif

 

[Penny_Plain]

Sherlock:

So much for the idea that the road to salvation was narrow and difficult. Guess that Jesus dude just didn’t get it, huh? How dare he say that we have to love God with all of our heart and mind and soul. He should’ve said, “Hey, dude, don’t sweat it.”

Where did you see the part where I said that was easy?

How, exactly, is one supposed to love a God whom one believes to be indifferent on a good day? This has to come in stages, Sherlock, and it’s a long road to even get to that point. Is a person who has nothing in his heart with which to love God keeping the commandment? This is what the OP said:

I’ve never experienced God in my life at all.

How can he love with his whole heart, etc. a God he’s never experienced? Love has to be based on something; otherwise it’s more like a schoolgirl crush than anything else. And it takes time to get there, and patience, which is the point of my post which you have so carefully twisted.

This is not the answer:

He CAN reveal Himself to you but YOU must be the one in order to want that.

That’s really presumptuous of us, isn’t it? How do we know what the OP wants and doesn’t want? We know what he said, which seems to me to express a deep longing for exactly that. The potential answers to him are: (1) You don’t want it bad enough. or (2) He has. You missed it.

I don’t know the OP nearly well enough to say (1) to him. Neither do you.

I think (2)'s probably the closer answer, which is why I brought up the Swindoll sermon. Lots of people miss it, including the people who were right there when Jesus walked the earth. I don’t remember the passage (perhaps I’ve forgotten it) where Jesus slapped Thomas upside the head for doubting the resurrection. Mary Magdalene thought He was the gardener, for crying out loud.

My point is that this is really, really hard. It was hard for the people who were there – those who saw and, eventually, believed. We haven’t seen, at least in the sense that they saw, and we’re blessed if we believe, but belief is awfully, awfully hard.

How dare you reduce that struggle to, “Hey dude, don’t sweat it!!!” Maybe belief came easily for you. If so, be grateful. But for many of us, it’s not like you can flip a switch. I think, I hope that God’s mercy and love extend to those of us who take years and years to flip the switch, and that they extend even to those of us who never quite find the switch or find it but are afraid to flip it on.

Who are you to place limits on God’s love and mercy?

 

[ChristianWAB]

Everstruggling:

If God tells me exactly what he’d like me to do, it would make a load of difference.

The proofs of God that I’ve come across don’t prove God’s purpose in creating us.

Anyone who reads what I’m about to write will, no doubt be thoroughly convinced that I’ve either lost my marbles or never had them to begin with, but here goes…

I was watching a DVD of “The Greatest American Hero” the other day and it gave me an insight as to why so many people don’t know which end is up when it comes to God.

I’ll wait for the raised eyebrows to lower and the laughter to die down.

If you’ve ever seen the pilot episode of this particular show, the main “hero” character is given a superhero suit endowed with special powers. To know what it’s for and how to use it correctly, he was given an instruction booklet. He never read it and, as such, spent every episode trying to figure it all out. He had success at times, but more often than not, he just crashed into buildings and stuff. This guy just simply never learned how to fly straight. :whacky:

That’s kinda where I was about eight or so years ago. I had a general idea about God, but I had so many questions that I wished He could answer for me. Turns out that God did answer my questions; ALL of them. I just never realized it because I never bothered to read HIS instruction book.

Sure, Ralph lost his instructions, but had he realized the importance of those instructions at the time, my guess is that he would have held onto them a bit tighter.

God gave us His words and made sure that those words would be preserved for countless generations. Jesus knew this would be the fate of God’s words as He confidently declared that His words would never pass away (Mark 13:31).

You mentioned the idea of God coming down and eradicating all doubts in your mind of His existence. True, many of us have wished for the same thing at one time or another, and God could certainly come down and reveal Himself in the flesh once again, but look at what we did to Him the last time He did that! Men tortured, mocked and crucified Him!

For certain, the one thing you would not have any further need of if God showed up at your doorstep… is faith. Jesus pointed out to His disciples that they had no problem believing in Him because He was standing right in front of them! However, He also made sure that they remembered a basic truth; that being those of us who believe WITHOUT seeing Him are the truly blessed ones (John 20:29).

Ever care to know why God created us in the first place? Check out Revelation 4:11 and Colossians 1:16. If tested, I’m fairly certain that virtually any question you may have about God can be found in the Bible. All you need to do is read.

A good starting point would be Psalm 14. That one will grab you right from the very first verse!

God bless.

 

[Loboto-Me]

With all the good she did, and all the love she had, even Mother Theresa had some of the same struggles. Sometimes people receive the grace of perseverance. (sp?)

 

[Sherlock]

Penny Plain:

Where did you see the part where I said that was easy??

You wrote, “Live the best life you can here, and don’t worry too much about what happens after that. Live well, laugh, be grateful, keep your eyes open, and see what happens.” That sounds like an easy, pleasant, wide road (for most people, that is. I’ll grant that those who have personality disorders might have a tougher time). I have atheist friends who live by this exact code.
Penny Plain:

How, exactly, is one supposed to love a God whom one believes to be indifferent on a good day? This has to come in stages, Sherlock, and it’s a long road to even get to that point.

You’re making my point for me—it’s not easy. But in answer to your question, one needs to examine the basis for one’s belief that God is indifferent. At any rate, one needs to examine the whole question of God carefully—why would someone bother to do this if they’re given the advice, “Live the best life you can here, and don’t worry too much about what happens after that. Live well, laugh, be grateful, keep your eyes open, and see what happens”?
Penny Plain:

How can he love with his whole heart, etc. a God he’s never experienced? Love has to be based on something; otherwise it’s more like a schoolgirl crush than anything else. And it takes time to get there, and patience, which is the point of my post which you have so carefully twisted.

I don’t see how I’ve twisted your words—in fact, I’ve quoted them directly. As for, “how can he love with his whole heart, etc., a God he’s never experienced?”— God has and does love him. Frequently when believers look back on their own periods of unbelief, they can see that they WERE experiencing God: they just couldn’t or wouldn’t realize it. Taking the time to look at one’s life with gratitude is a start. This can be tough for affluent Americans: we take many things for granted. One practical suggestion for the OP is to volunteer at a soup kitchen or visit the sick----this might help him to see the gifts and love he has experienced without realizing it.
Penny Plain:

This is not the answer:

Quote:
He CAN reveal Himself to you but YOU must be the one in order to want that.

That’s really presumptuous of us, isn’t it? How do we know what the OP wants and doesn’t want? We know what he said, which seems to me to express a deep longing for exactly that. The potential answers to him are: (1) You don’t want it bad enough. or (2) He has. You missed it.
I don’t know the OP nearly well enough to say (1) to him. Neither do you…

Since I didn’t write the item you quoted, I don’t see why you’re assuming that I’m being presumptuous. Whoever did write that can respond to you if they wish, I suppose.
Penny Plain:

I don’t remember the passage (perhaps I’ve forgotten it) where Jesus slapped Thomas upside the head for doubting the resurrection. Mary Magdalene thought He was the gardener, for crying out loud…

Well, for crying out loud, I must have missed the part where I wrote that Jesus slapped Thomas…
Penny Plain:

My point is that this is really, really hard. It was hard for the people who were there – those who saw and, eventually, believed. We haven’t seen, at least in the sense that they saw, and we’re blessed if we believe, but belief is awfully, awfully hard…

This seems at odds, then, with your earlier advice to “Live the best life you can here, and don’t worry too much about what happens after that.” I’m glad to see you come around to my way of viewing it; namely, that faith is serious business with serious ramifications for our life. Thought, prayer, self-examination, and awareness of the need for humility is what I would suggest as fostering receptivity.
Penny Plain:

How dare you reduce that struggle to, “Hey dude, don’t sweat it!!!” Maybe belief came easily for you. If so, be grateful. But for many of us, it’s not like you can flip a switch. I think, I hope that God’s mercy and love extend to those of us who take years and years to flip the switch, and that they extend even to those of us who never quite find the switch or find it but are afraid to flip it on…

My “Hey dude, don’t sweat it”, was NOT a reduction or summary of “that struggle”: it was a summary of your advice to “Live the best life you can here, and don’t worry too much about what happens after that”.
Penny Plain:

Who are you to place limits on God’s love and mercy?

I would never presume to do such a thing, and I fail to see how someone would derive that from what I wrote.

 

[allhers]

Everstruggling—We all are ever struggling. The journey is life-long.
I once knew a man who didn’t believe either, and so one night he said he just knelt down beside his bed and said–“If you are there, will you please help me?” He said that after that people just kept showing up in his life, leading Him to God.
You got a lot of responses here.
This is a great prayer, – “I believe, help my unbelief.”
…and wasn’t it Jesus Himself who said…“Blessed are they who though they have not seen, believe.”
Some of the greatest Saints experienced a “dark night of the soul”. They had to go through intense periods where they had no evidence at all that there was a God and yet they just kept believing. I believe He is leading you to Himself now.
One last thing, as an earlier poster said----“He did”. (already) ------come down here. I believe!! oh, and I will keep you in my prayers too.

 

[Everstruggling]

Hi hurst

I won’t quote the whole story here, anyone that wants to read it can find your last post, but that story of the domincan friar, is that what you think God is like? He’ll smite you down if you point out his unkindness? I thought most people believed in loving gods. But yes, I would rather be smitten by a hateful God rather than believe that a loving God is just ignoring me.

As for the second story, again, I don’t see anything wrong with demanding God come down. I’ve asked for answers fairly humbly for a long time, and got no response. I’m a little tired of it. If I get wrath in response, better that than what I’m getting now.

I’m not entirely sure that I understood the stories. Did I misinterpret them?

Ever

 

[edward_george]

Everstruggling,

You are certainly in my prayers.

Remember this, though.

Two of the central figures of the New Testament said something that we would all do well to remember when we pray.

When the archangel Gabriel appeared to Mary and told her she would be with child, she said: Be it done to me according to your word.

When Jesus taught us to pray, he said: Our Father, who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

Two of the most profound statements in the Bible, and they are a good example. A prayer of acceptance, of submission. Ask God for what he wants for you, not for what you want for him to want for you. Either way, he will give you what he wants for you. Whether or not you take it is up to you.

Peace be with you, my friend.

-ACEGC

 

[Everstruggling]

Hi Everyone!

Thank-you all for posting. I’d like to respond to every post, but if I started 30 or so conversations I’d have to quit my job and become a full-time doubter.

I’m going to have to do the next best thing , and group answer things. Please don’t think I haven’t read your post or thought about what you’ve said because I haven’t replied personally.

I’ve noticed certain themes.

1. You need to ask God for faith.
   I have. Many, many, many times. Many, many many. I mean it, really, really a lot. I asked for other things too, which would have strengthened my faith. Do you want something really bad to happen in your life? Get me to pray for you. I’ve managed to kill people who were perfectly healthy, have people go blind, have marriages end, have people go insane, and have people people be completely isolated. And I’ve prayed for faith. Every prayer I prayed seemed to drive me farther away, as if God truly answered my prayers with “Take a hike, and quit bugging me.” I just recently had someone ask me to pray for them, aware of the fact that I’m not a believer, and thankfully, just as I was about to mentally wish them well, I started to think of my track record. Call me superstitious, but with this well established pattern of disaster I considered trying a curse on them instead. I thought better of it, with my luck, the curse would work.
2. God already came.

I don’t think Jesus is God. Let me rephrase that, I choose not to believe that Jesus is God. I think that faith is a choice. Faith in the scientific method, faith in philosophy, faith in God; I think it all comes down to faith. Your choices may be limited by your experience or forces beyond your control, but it’s still a choice.

I’m going to answer in my next post who I think Jesus is, but for now, I just wanted to explain that I didn’t believe in him, so, that doesn’t really solve my problem.

1. Look at (people, nature, other things) This is God showing his love to you.

Here’ s the problem. What would my life be like if there was no God. Well, if there is a God, then there was never a state where there was no God. So, we can not possiblely know what would happen if there was no God. If there is no God, presumably there never was a God, and we would have no way of knowing what that is like either. So, life with there being a God, or with there being no God, could look exactly the same.

Unless you can create a God-free-zone and a God-rich-zone, and compare the two, there is no way of proving how God effects things.

People showing concern is either people showing concern or God showing concern through other people. How can you possiblely know which one it is. I could decide that it is God, but then I could decide you were all being controled by aliens as well.

(Is anyone still reading this? My compliments if you have.)

1. What right do I have to ask God to come to me on my terms?

Yes, I guess I am being rather arrogant. I want God to show up and appear to me in a way that I can understand. I’m shouting at the heavens looking for a response. I wrote a friend of mine (I hope he doesn’t mind me applying the term friend. We’ve never actually met.) to tell him why I wrote this thread. I don’t think I can explain in much better than I did then.

The people in the Bible that God responded to were not always the most meek and mild. Jacob wasn’t exactly humble. Job accused God of being unjust. When it came to Jesus, people tugged at his robes, broke into his friend’s house and crowded around him.

I’m hoping that if I yell loud enough, rage long enough, stamp my foot, wave my fist, scream, and rant, and rave. That maybe I can shame God into at least posting on a message board. To make some sort of appearance.
I’ve tried praying till I was blue in the face, and I got bupkiss for it. Now I’m screaming. I don’t think that there is going to be a response. I find it strange that none of you seem to think so either.

I’ve been accused of being a lot of things, but never a person who loves by halves. If God exists, if he is worthy of my adoration, then I will quite happily dedicate my life to him. But I’m not going to work for a guy I’ve never met.

This message is getting too long. I’ll continue in another post with some other things that have come up. Namely, If Jesus isn’t God, who is he? and How can you say that you choose not to believe in something that you admit exists? Thanks again to everyone that posted.

Ever

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Everstruggling:

Hi,

My problem is when people tell me that God is loving, or that God is involved in my life. I’ve never experienced God in my life at all. I’ve experienced countless **people **telling me that God is involved, but not God. If God is infinite, if God is all-powerful. Could he not once, just once, come down and tell me he’s here. That he knows what I’m going through? I mean he can right? Wouldn’t take any time at all, but he doesn’t. The idea that he exists, that he could do something like that, and that he won’t is so annoying, so hurtful, so blatently cruel, that I choose not to believe.

If God revealed himself to you in some physical way, you would believe because you have seen. However, it is a test of faith to believe without seeing. It is a leap of faith.

 

[Everstruggling]

Hi again!

Trying to explain more things that came up:

1. Why would you say that you admit God exists, but say you don’t believe in God?

I admit that a god could exist. But that god could just be another word for “quantum singularity” or another word for “really bizarre freak of nature”. I haven’t seen proof that God has substance or meaning. It could just be an idea. Some scientiists say that the universe could have had no beginning. I don’t understand this, I can’t visualize it, but I can accept it might be right. I can also accept the idea of a big bang. I could also accept the idea that the big bang was God dying. (Somebody once assured me it is the case) I could accept the idea that God created the big bang, or well you get the idea. I acceptance of the existence of God doesn’t really call me to action.

1. If Jesus wasn’t God, who is he.

I’ve been trying to avoid this one. Short answer, I don’t know.

There are four possibilities I see. They are all logical for some reason or another.

1. Jesus didn’t exist. He was a myth pure and simple, like Hercules.
2. Jesus was a man, nothing more.
3. Jesus was a prophet. He was in tune with a higher state of being and he managed to transcend death.
4. Jesus was the son of God, and was God.

#3 is the one that is least logical, but oddly enough, the one I like to believe. Kind of trying to have it both ways.

I’d love to expand, but I’m too tired. Thanks again to everyone who posted. Did I miss anything that people said?

You know, I’d love to be wrong. But I’m still fussy about the terms I’m wrong on. Go figure.