Why I Could No Longer Be A Catholic

[Malleus_01]

I found this on AOL News and thought I’d show/share it with all in CAF. This type of attitude saddens me. I find that it’s typical of a lot of those that call themselves Catholic.
In a way I blame the heirchy for not insisting on a better grounding in the Catholic faith similar to that found in many Protestant denominations.

When I taught the children in CCD I was admonished for using scripture to explain Church teaching. I should follow what the other teachers did and make a game out of teaching in CCD, “How else are they going to learn?”. This stunned me. Hiow can you make a game out of Jesus’ and the Apostles teachings? I think that this point is where most Catholics start and end their instructions. The majority of Catholics really know nothing of their “faith” and follow thru like robots.

PAX DOMINI

Malleus: Once again , I dont see why this thread was posted on the Traditional Catholicism Thread - but since it was - I am going to approach it from that perspective.

In my opinion - we have the scandals and the abuses and the obvious fallout these things engender because we have not been better Catholics. Certainly Vatican II and its aftermath has been a complete and utter disaster for the Church. So when a person asks - “Why I could no longer be a Catholic” followed by a litany of false justifications all of which have no merit or thought of mortality and what justification in these things one can rely on when facing Our Lord on that day and having to render an accounting of Our Time spent in this temporal world. Of what benefit will this list be? What is the First Lesson on page one of the Catechism? Why did GOD make me? Is this question addressed.

Whatever trials GOD Sends us - even in times of Great Heresy - that is the time to be the best Catholic one can possibly be. Certainly in the most Modernist of Churches we see the evidence of the greater damage the novelties have inflicted and to those poor souls who are subject to those abuses - my heart goes out. (And we need to be praying for change) But even in those parishes - Catholics can refuse the novelties. They can refuse to go along. They can kneel.for communion they can get to church 1/2 hour before Mass and Pray the Rosary and encourage others to do so. They can sing the “Ave” instead of
amazing grace. I read about a modernist priest who invited "Buddists " to his Church and Third Order Dominicans showed up en mass and prayed the Holy Rosary out loud and the Buddists left.

We can take the Church back. One Catholic at a time. If the hierarchy doesnt want to do it. Then we have to do it. We can all be Catholic.

So as to the original Point I say

NOW IS THE TIME THAT WE ALL MUST BE THE BEST CATHOLICS IN HISTORY.

Or perhaps begin another thread that says - if you dont want to be Catholic anymore - dont let the Doors to the Church hit you on your way out. I find it appalling that anyone would brag about how they do not need GOD or his Grace in their life. Are we to assume GOD didnt send such individuals sufficient Grace? Are we to assume that they coorperated with his Grace and found it lacking? Are we to assume that they were tempted beyond their strength? Because these are the points they have to reconcile if they are honest with themselves or if they were ever really catholic to begin with.

The world has nothing to offer a Catholic. When we kneel on Ash Wednesday and the Priest tells us - “Remember man - thou art dust and onto dust thou shalt return” are we to tell him in return - Thats all fine and good Father - But this is why I can no longer be a Catholic?

The answer should be obvious.

Pax

 

[St_Francis]

From the original post:

Melinda’s argument is a variant on one that many of my pro-choice Catholic friends use when defending their choice to remain in a church even when its hierarchy (and – it must be said – most of its adherents) condemn a practice which my friends find perfectly legal and justifiable. They are somehow able to separate their personal beliefs on this issue from official church doctrine, and can carry on as practicing Catholics because they buy into other church teachings.

The main difference between the two situations is that the Church teaches against abortion, and *also *teaches against acting out one’s ebephilic temptations, so there is no comparison between those scandalized by the scandal and those “scandalized” by the teachings on abortion.

In fact, those who advocate abortion are closer in position to those who perpetrated the acts than to those who are upset by them.

 

[Edwardjohn]

Javl;6499476:

I found this on AOL News and thought I’d show/share it with all in CAF. This type of attitude saddens me. I find that it’s typical of a lot of those that call themselves Catholic.
In a way I blame the heirchy for not insisting on a better grounding in the Catholic faith similar to that found in many Protestant denominations.

When I taught the children in CCD I was admonished for using scripture to explain Church teaching. I should follow what the other teachers did and make a game out of teaching in CCD, “How else are they going to learn?”. This stunned me. Hiow can you make a game out of Jesus’ and the Apostles teachings? I think that this point is where most Catholics start and end their instructions. The majority of Catholics really know nothing of their “faith” and follow thru like robots.

PAX DOMINI

Malleus: Once again , I dont see why this thread was posted on the Traditional Catholicism Thread - but since it was - I am going to approach it from that perspective.

In my opinion - we have the scandals and the abuses and the obvious fallout these things engender because we have not been better Catholics. Certainly Vatican II and its aftermath has been a complete and utter disaster for the Church. So when a person asks - “Why I could no longer be a Catholic” followed by a litany of false justifications all of which have no merit or thought of mortality and what justification in these things one can rely on when facing Our Lord on that day and having to render an accounting of Our Time spent in this temporal world. Of what benefit will this list be? What is the First Lesson on page one of the Catechism? Why did GOD make me? Is this question addressed.

Whatever trials GOD Sends us - even in times of Great Heresy - that is the time to be the best Catholic one can possibly be. Certainly in the most Modernist of Churches we see the evidence of the greater damage the novelties have inflicted and to those poor souls who are subject to those abuses - my heart goes out. (And we need to be praying for change) But even in those parishes - Catholics can refuse the novelties. They can refuse to go along. They can kneel.for communion they can get to church 1/2 hour before Mass and Pray the Rosary and encourage others to do so. They can sing the “Ave” instead of
amazing grace. I read about a modernist priest who invited "Buddists " to his Church and Third Order Dominicans showed up en mass and prayed the Holy Rosary out loud and the Buddists left.

We can take the Church back. One Catholic at a time. If the hierarchy doesnt want to do it. Then we have to do it. We can all be Catholic.

So as to the original Point I say

NOW IS THE TIME THAT WE ALL MUST BE THE BEST CATHOLICS IN HISTORY.

Or perhaps begin another thread that says - if you dont want to be Catholic anymore - dont let the Doors to the Church hit you on your way out. I find it appalling that anyone would brag about how they do not need GOD or his Grace in their life. Are we to assume GOD didnt send such individuals sufficient Grace? Are we to assume that they coorperated with his Grace and found it lacking? Are we to assume that they were tempted beyond their strength? Because these are the points they have to reconcile if they are honest with themselves or if they were ever really catholic to begin with.

The world has nothing to offer a Catholic. When we kneel on Ash Wednesday and the Priest tells us - “Remember man - thou art dust and onto dust thou shalt return” are we to tell him in return - Thats all fine and good Father - But this is why I can no longer be a Catholic?

The answer should be obvious.

Pax

Way to nail it!

 

[saveusfromhell]

I wonder how long the message of christ would have survied in the early church (when there was only one form of christanity) if it had been run as a democracy, or if you didn’t have to be obedient and could believe what you liked.
Blessed Virgin was obedient to joseph and also she was never ordained as a priest. yet she is held by our faith as the highest being in heaven, after the trinity, even above angels who by their nature or above humans.Why christ/ early appostles didn’t have Mary as a priest i don’t know, but who am i to question. I’m sure down to through the centuries the mother of every house had far more influence on what her children believed than did any priest.
By the world standards the church is mysgonistic, but the last will be first and first last.
The washing of the feet holy thursday night also proves this.
I can’t remember Christ ever talking about stand up for your rights, it is always turn the other cheek.Feminism is just another type of religion that holds the rights of women above the teachings of christ.
what does it matter how we are regarded in this life as long as we reach heaven.
Most people who hold these views don’t understand that they come from satan. there is nothing he would love more than the church to be a democracy.
I believe the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to guide the pope when dictating Dogma on all else he has free will.

 

[nannyma]

I recall my religious education in a Catholic school as being subpar and I’ve heard similar stories from other Catholics and ex-Catholics. Only a few friends of mine have had good religious educations through their schools. I’m not sure what the problem is but there is certainly a problem here that needs to be fixed.

Yes, there is a definite problem here. Jesus said “seek and you shall find;knock it shall be opened…” I have never heard a priest say “do not study your faith, do not seek answers, do not ask questions unless I can answer them…” Have you? Don’t you think we are obligated by God Himself to use our intellect, to make judgments, ok to present these judgments as well for scrutiny and don’t stop there, challange,discuss. Again Jesus said (how many,many times “Do not be afraid” Isn’t Our Lord worth it!!! Don’t just accept, accept and not make your own ruminations heard. The Church wants this deserves this. As for our priests, don’t deify the priest. They are not here to “tell you what you can do” they are here to help you how to make that decision yourself. As far as teaching children I think all avenues should be accessed with moderation. If you feel the program being followed is not providing the accurate information and formation for your child, let your voice be heard. If this is rejected;go elsewhere but stay in the Church.

 

[saveusfromhell]

your totally taking out of context where God says “Do not be afraid” also there is nothing better than finding out about your faith, asking questions, studing the Gospels, the only problem is where people decide that after studing the faith they come to a different conclusion about the faith than thought by the church and proceed to teach their heresy to others as catholisim.

 

[jlhargus]

Melinda tells us that she’s as put off as the next person by the current sex abuse scandal roiling the Catholic Church, as well as by the Vatican’s latest attempts to play the victim and point fingers. At the end of the day, though, Melinda is going to hang in there with this church, because being Catholic is integral to who she is. “In the end,” she writes,“it is not about them.”

I found this on AOL News and thought I’d show/share it with all in CAF. This type of attitude saddens me. I find that it’s typical of a lot of those that call themselves Catholic.

JL: The statement, I put in bold print, is typical extreme liberal subterfuge. Trying to imply the Vatican is blaming others. When in fact the Vatican has ONLY pointed a finger at those who have made FALSE accusations.

My faith as a Catholic does not depend on the holiness or lack of holiness of any individual or group, whether pastor, bishop or pope, but on Jesus Christ who is building HIS Church, the pillar and ground of TRUTH, on Peter. Judas’ will alway be among us.

 

[Javl]

I recall my religious education in a Catholic school as being subpar and I’ve heard similar stories from other Catholics and ex-Catholics. Only a few friends of mine have had good religious educations through their schools. I’m not sure what the problem is but there is certainly a problem here that needs to be fixed.

I also went to Catholic school. The difference between now and “then” is today you have secular teachers, many of whom are really not grounded in the faith. Back “then” all teachers were either nuns or priests and you received a first class religious education… In some schools where nuns teach today, they usually give their ideas of the faith. Believe it or not, even though they are “religious”, many of them are not faithful to the magisterium and do teach accordingly. ( I know this will cause many an arguement, but it is the truth ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

 

[Javl]

I also went to Catholic school. The difference between now and “then” is today you have secular teachers, many of whom are really not grounded in the faith. Back “then” all teachers were either nuns or priests and you received a first class religious education… In some schools where nuns teach today, they usually give their ideas of the faith. Believe it or not, even though they are “religious”, many of them are not faithful to the magisterium and do teach accordingly. ( I know this will cause many an arguement, but it is the truth ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

In my post above, in the last sentence I meant to say that the nuns do not teach according to the magisterium. My apologies for the error.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

 

[PA650]

Javl;6499476:

I found this on AOL News and thought I’d show/share it with all in CAF. This type of attitude saddens me. I find that it’s typical of a lot of those that call themselves Catholic.
In a way I blame the heirchy for not insisting on a better grounding in the Catholic faith similar to that found in many Protestant denominations.

When I taught the children in CCD I was admonished for using scripture to explain Church teaching. I should follow what the other teachers did and make a game out of teaching in CCD, “How else are they going to learn?”. This stunned me. Hiow can you make a game out of Jesus’ and the Apostles teachings? I think that this point is where most Catholics start and end their instructions. The majority of Catholics really know nothing of their “faith” and follow thru like robots.

PAX DOMINI

Malleus: Once again , I dont see why this thread was posted on the Traditional Catholicism Thread - but since it was - I am going to approach it from that perspective.

In my opinion - we have the scandals and the abuses and the obvious fallout these things engender because we have not been better Catholics. Certainly Vatican II and its aftermath has been a complete and utter disaster for the Church. So when a person asks - “Why I could no longer be a Catholic” followed by a litany of false justifications all of which have no merit or thought of mortality and what justification in these things one can rely on when facing Our Lord on that day and having to render an accounting of Our Time spent in this temporal world. Of what benefit will this list be? What is the First Lesson on page one of the Catechism? Why did GOD make me? Is this question addressed.

Whatever trials GOD Sends us - even in times of Great Heresy - that is the time to be the best Catholic one can possibly be. Certainly in the most Modernist of Churches we see the evidence of the greater damage the novelties have inflicted and to those poor souls who are subject to those abuses - my heart goes out. (And we need to be praying for change) But even in those parishes - Catholics can refuse the novelties. They can refuse to go along. They can kneel.for communion they can get to church 1/2 hour before Mass and Pray the Rosary and encourage others to do so. They can sing the “Ave” instead of
amazing grace. I read about a modernist priest who invited "Buddists " to his Church and Third Order Dominicans showed up en mass and prayed the Holy Rosary out loud and the Buddists left.

We can take the Church back. One Catholic at a time. If the hierarchy doesnt want to do it. Then we have to do it. We can all be Catholic.

So as to the original Point I say

NOW IS THE TIME THAT WE ALL MUST BE THE BEST CATHOLICS IN HISTORY.

Or perhaps begin another thread that says - if you dont want to be Catholic anymore - dont let the Doors to the Church hit you on your way out. I find it appalling that anyone would brag about how they do not need GOD or his Grace in their life. Are we to assume GOD didnt send such individuals sufficient Grace? Are we to assume that they coorperated with his Grace and found it lacking? Are we to assume that they were tempted beyond their strength? Because these are the points they have to reconcile if they are honest with themselves or if they were ever really catholic to begin with.

The world has nothing to offer a Catholic. When we kneel on Ash Wednesday and the Priest tells us - “Remember man - thou art dust and onto dust thou shalt return” are we to tell him in return - Thats all fine and good Father - But this is why I can no longer be a Catholic?

The answer should be obvious.

Pax

An insightful assessment.

 

[Crumpy]

We all know the scripture where Jesus says that the wheat will grow up with the chaff, but the chaff will be winnowed away at the end of time.

That teaching of Jesus should reassure us, in a way, when we see dogmatic “chaff” around us. Our instincts tell us that such teachers and believers should be winnowed away NOW.

On EWTN, Fr. Benedict Groeschel gets wound up about this subject, especially about dissenters in the priesthood. He said it will take a generation (until the bozos retire) to MAYBE get rid of that element in the Church.

Fr. Corapi talks about the same thing, too, where many priests and bishops try to censure him from teaching mainstream Catholicism, e.g. so he wouldn’t talk about sin, for example.

They just get up in the morning and put one foot in front of the other and keep marching to the teachings of the Church.

Part of the reason is that the Church has abandoned the “inquisition” trials of people, and wants to distance itself from its sordid history in that regard. There was an article that Pope John Paul II excommunicated only about 25 people, in all his 25 or so years as pope. That’s a very small number, compared to the more than a billion members of the Church.

Attendance at Mass continues to decline and donations continue to fall, for big reasons, related to the management of the church in the last 50 years. The “lay faithful” have not caused the scandals and crises, it has been the priests and bishops who have.

It’s a big non sequitor, but people like Andrew Sullivan of the Atlantic Monthly magazine sincerely object to irrationality in the church (see his book, the Politics of Homosexuality).

A lot of people simply do not “fathom” Humanae Vitae and its prohibition of artificial birth control. To Sullivan (a Catholic and otherwise faithful) the position is totally illogical, as is its attitude toward the immorality of homosexuality. The Church bases its positions on natural law, which Sullivan decries as illogical and inconsistent.

There are “active” Catholics who go much farther, and oppose the Church’s stance on abortion itself.

Certainly in the immediate context anyway, we’re going to have to agree to disagree with those dissenters.

 

[hosemonkey]

I will be Catholic until I die. Those who are shaken by these recent scandals somehow fail to see that that there is the Church and then there are those those called to administer Her, who are not always models of virtue. In the words of St. Peter “to whom shall we go,Lord?, You have the words of eternal life.” Only the Holy Catholic Church has the words of eternal life. The gates of hell will not prevail against Her. Long live our Holy Father, Benedict the Sixteenth!

 

[shondrea]

I found this on AOL News and thought I’d show/share it with all in CAF. This type of attitude saddens me. I find that it’s typical of a lot of those that call themselves Catholic.
In a way I blame the heirchy for not insisting on a better grounding in the Catholic faith similar to that found in many Protestant denominations.

When I taught the children in CCD I was admonished for using scripture to explain Church teaching. I should follow what the other teachers did and make a game out of teaching in CCD, “How else are they going to learn?”. This stunned me. Hiow can you make a game out of Jesus’ and the Apostles teachings? I think that this point is where most Catholics start and end their instructions. The majority of Catholics really know nothing of their “faith” and follow thru like robots.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

Yeeeeeah…12 years of Cetchism and I never saw a Bible. Ever. EVVVVER. And it’s why it took me till i was 19 to learn anything about Catholicism that wasn’t watered down Protestantism with a few Catholic words thrown in to make it pretty

 

[peary]

I found this on AOL News and thought I’d show/share it with all in CAF. This type of attitude saddens me. I find that it’s typical of a lot of those that call themselves Catholic.
In a way I blame the heirchy for not insisting on a better grounding in the Catholic faith similar to that found in many Protestant denominations.

When I taught the children in CCD I was admonished for using scripture to explain Church teaching. I should follow what the other teachers did and make a game out of teaching in CCD, “How else are they going to learn?”. This stunned me. Hiow can you make a game out of Jesus’ and the Apostles teachings? I think that this point is where most Catholics start and end their instructions. The majority of Catholics really know nothing of their “faith” and follow thru like robots.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach

As long as we have CCD directors who insist on games and fun-time which supposedly ‘helps’ us learn our Faith, we will continue to get responses like the article you mentioned. When the Faith becomes a serious matter, then maybe CCD directors will do their jobs. The same problem exists at my parish. The public school kids think it’s a big joke.

 

[Javl]

As long as we have CCD directors who insist on games and fun-time which supposedly ‘helps’ us learn our Faith, we will continue to get responses like the article you mentioned. When the Faith becomes a serious matter, then maybe CCD directors will do their jobs. The same problem exists at my parish. The public school kids think it’s a big joke.

The last class I taught for confirmation was supposed to take 12 weeks, but the parish council decided 6 weeks was more than sufficient, the pastor agreed. When I tested the children, I told the council and pastor that they weren’t ready. But I was overruled and they were confirmed anyway. I did try to convince them otherwise with the result that I am no longer certified to teach CCD.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom HaMeshiach

 

[CradleCath]

Unfortunately the media is misrepresenting the sexual abuse in the church and many people are not hearing the whole story.

We have major publications using material from those who have a financial or other interest in the outcome (such as the lawyers who seek to gain from the lawsuits) and don’t properly investigate the story.

When the Boston Globe first aired the story re sexual abuse in the Church, after the shock wore off…I was happy that this horror was out in the open so that we could deal with it. I majored in journalism in college. Though life took me far away from the field of journalism, until-was it 2002?- when I realized that the Globe did not have the cajones to tell the whole story, I still respected the media. I no longer do. They took on the Church, but when the media realized that the very nature of the sexual abuse in the Church had nothing to do with pedophilia…but was entirely one of homosexual abuse of young boys, the age old problem of pederasty…they got REAL SILENT.

They are attacking the Holy Father because of his orthodoxy and traditional beliefs, in spite of the fact that he has led the fight to clean the church of these abuses and has done more than anyone to reform how the church deals with these issues.

 

[PrudenceD]

There is a huge problem and as someone who helped teach a CCD class, I have some suggestions. The program needs re-written. So many of the kids that come to CCD have no support at home. The kids will tell you that their parents just want them to get Confirmed and that is all they care about. The kids don’t know basic prayers (I taught 8th graders and most did not know the ‘Our Father’) and they don’t go to Mass on Sundays. Parents need to be more actively involved in teaching their children! I realize that parents are busy with jobs, home and children but they find time to golf, go to the bar, hunt, fish, scrapbook, etc. They need to set aside some of that time for their children and their God. They need to change their priorities and they need to pray!

I’ve highlighted the above part of this quote…this is the core of the problems with teaching the Catholic youth of today. I’ve been teaching CCD for 25 years and have seen the level of interest and meaning of faith decline rapidly-especially in the past 5-10 years. Parents simply want their children to go to “religion classes” so that they can appease some inner niggling that leads them to believe that by sending their kids to CCD, they will be saved somehow (much like the faith-ful who MUST have sacraments, but not put the work in before AND after). Every week I ask my students, “Who went to church this past weekend?” And I’m LUCKY if 1 or 2 raise their hands (out of 20) And its perpetually followed by the ‘Oh we had to go here or there’ or some such other excuse. The problem with that? Its the parents making excuses-not the children. Children are what they learn…and parents are NOT being very good teachers in the avenues of faith.

 

[peary]

Part of the reason is that the Church has abandoned the “inquisition” trials of people, and wants to distance itself from its sordid history in that regard. There was an article that Pope John Paul II excommunicated only about 25 people, in all his 25 or so years as pope. That’s a very small number, compared to the more than a billion members of the Church.

Only 25? I’m surprised that number is so high.

Attendance at Mass continues to decline and donations continue to fall, for big reasons, related to the management of the church in the last 50 years. The “lay faithful” have not caused the scandals and crises, it has been the priests and bishops who have.

**Actually, donations continue to rise which lends hope that attendance at Mass is also rising. Catholics in the United States raised over $60 million for Haiti, in spite of the sexual scandal costing the church in this country over $2 billion. **

The laity has also caused scandal and the present crises in the Church. They not only accept but many times endorse and practice what is against Church teaching; i.e. birth control, sex before marriage, living together, homosexuality, divorce, etc. This all rests on the laity’s responsibility. Is it because a lack of learning what the Church teaches? NO. They do it because they WANT to, and thumb their nose at the Church, yet have the audacity to go to Mass on Sunday and receive the Eucharist. Many are apostates and have brought condemnation on themselves. You cannot blame the clergy for this. Many have lost the sense of sin and, like an addiction that it is, prefer to wallow in it and try to drag everyone else down with them. Only prayer will save us.

Certainly in the immediate context anyway, we’re going to have to agree to disagree with those dissenters.

Amen.

 

[Abenadar]

I found this on AOL News and thought I’d show/share it with all in CAF. This type of attitude saddens me. I find that it’s typical of a lot of those that call themselves Catholic.

Exactly. Typical.

I found this quote most telling:

You certainly wouldn’t keep sending your kids to a school whose management tacitly condoned pedophilia or looked the other way. Nor would you work for a business that did so.

Umm, helloooooooo? Nobody seems to realize that the problem of “pedophilia” is much, much worse in schools! Not only that, but it is tacitly condoned by the management, who simply hide it or “pass the trash” to another school when something happens. Now, why isn’t this ever reported? Also, sexual abuse, as I’ve heard (must try to confirm for myself at some point) is higher among protestants and jews.

 

[Lutheranteach]

The Lutheran communion does NOT have the Eucharist or Apostolic Succession.

Apostolic succession is a implausible notion in my mind…it’s like reading an “authorized biography” and expecting it be absolutely true.