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Steven_John
Guest
Amen
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humble_in_doubt
Guest
Just want to make sort of a trolling remark. I hear everyone forgiving each other here, like a hippie fest or something. No one wants to offend or be offended … but it seems to me that the only way we’ve ever progressed as a civilization is when things get shaken up a little bit.
Old ideas challenged, bad ideas exposed, and things that most people generally accept as timeless truth questioned. I’m not advocating all out chaos here in cyber-space, but this altruism competition is just droll.
Forgiveness is a great virtue don’t get me wrong, but it seems to me it should be reserved when it has real value. I don’t care if someone calls me an idiot on the internet, nor would I be inclined to say I forgive them (since there’s nothing to forgive). If you come to a forum like this & expect the majority of people on here (Catholics) to agree with you (if you’re not Catholic that is), then you’re an idiot. I fully understand virtually no one here agrees with anything I say; and I’m OK with that (in fact I love a good debate, even a fairly heated one).
I don’t know what the forum rules are here (I’ve already had one infraction so I guess they’re tight) but what ever happened to good old fashioned thick skin?
Old ideas challenged, bad ideas exposed, and things that most people generally accept as timeless truth questioned. I’m not advocating all out chaos here in cyber-space, but this altruism competition is just droll.
Forgiveness is a great virtue don’t get me wrong, but it seems to me it should be reserved when it has real value. I don’t care if someone calls me an idiot on the internet, nor would I be inclined to say I forgive them (since there’s nothing to forgive). If you come to a forum like this & expect the majority of people on here (Catholics) to agree with you (if you’re not Catholic that is), then you’re an idiot. I fully understand virtually no one here agrees with anything I say; and I’m OK with that (in fact I love a good debate, even a fairly heated one).
I don’t know what the forum rules are here (I’ve already had one infraction so I guess they’re tight) but what ever happened to good old fashioned thick skin?
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prodigalson12
Guest
Forgiveness makes perfectly logical sense, you are now putting what was entailed within a logical, most tactful stance, not being at the mercy of negative emotions. You can then plan the next course of action unabated, it’s also healthy on the body’s physiological make up, for it’s eliminating a source of stress. At the same time, there is just that, time you waste with angry thoughts about who you dislike.
I’ll stick to the side of forgiveness, and yeah, I know how to debate, this is not the thread for that…
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elvisman
Guest
**It must be contagious. I can’t make sense of your posts either. Just a bunch of scrambled thoughts thrown together in a collection of confusing phrases and run-on sentences. ****This is not meant to be an insult - just an observation. **
As for where to show your lack of committment - y****our profile stating your religious affiliation would be a good place to start.
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humble_in_doubt
Guest
I agree. However, why would debating an issue give one negative emotions? The fact is even if you say you forgive someone it really doesn’t abate your anger. It’s only real value is first for the recipient of forgiveness. However, it also breaks the chain of negativity. In other words if you slap me I could either forgive you (in which case the fight will probably be over before it really starts) or I could slap you back (in which case the fight will likely continue); but of course occasionally it’s better to have the fight and get it off your chest (if two people just can’t stand each other, but for whatever reason can’t avoid each other … then it will probably eventually erupt anyway). Won’t the guy who is slapped continue to feel anger and distrust toward his slapper? Won’t he feel like less of a man for wimpering rather than fighting?
If my wife cheats on me & I forgive her … that’s a situation where forgiveness has real value. Or someone commits a crime and eventually (after several years) the state decides to parole him or her. It’s a second chance for people, and we all benefit because if we’re ever in a similar circumstance we would hope to get a second chance ourselves (at least eventually).
I think someone who can avoid ever feeling anger is detached and either flaky or lacks any semblance of passion. I guess this goes to the whole idea that we should feel guilty for being who we are, human beings who have emotion. It’s almost like Christianity took a cue from stoic philosophy (and IMO stoic philosophy saps the life out of humanity).
How can we know joy if we never know despair? How can we know tranquility if we’ve never experienced chaos and anger? Why for the life of me should I feel guilty for being human?
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Steven_John
Guest
Not a lot of point to ask what you have on this thread, if you have an opinion on this topic i would be keen to hear it.
If you want to discuss religion or the off thread topics in your posts we can go further with the PM i sent or if you want to start a thread so you can be publicly acclaimed i will come and share.
But i must warn you i aint educated and i also agree with some things you have said, maybe i would not be much fun for you.
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elvisman
Guest
Hey - no animosity here. Just pointing out the fact that you’re not a Catholic. As a matter of fact - you sound like a baiter masquerading as a part-time Catholic (as if such a thing were possible). It’s time to fish or cut bait, my friend - you can’t have it both ways.**
Remember what God said in Rev. 3:15-16:
*"I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. *
So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."
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Steven_John
Guest
Its the problem of the uneducated meeting the educated how did Jesus (pbwh) ever get both types to believe.**It must **be contagious. I can’t make sense of your posts either. Just a bunch of scrambled thoughts thrown together in a collection of confusing phrases and run-on sentences. **This is not **meant to be an insult - just an observation.
**As for where to show your lack of committment - y****our profile stating your religious affiliation would be a good **place to start.
The affiliation is of truth, but to start you need to start.
God bless you
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Steven_John
Guest
Humble_in_doubt,
it may be easier to just stay here to get what you want
“Elvis is in the building” LOL
I mean no offence to anyone with this.
it may be easier to just stay here to get what you want
“Elvis is in the building” LOL
I mean no offence to anyone with this.
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prodigalson12
Guest
I used to be like you Elvis, I know where you are coming from, trust me, the legalist manner of your view of the Catholic faith leads only to self damnation, there are certain truths that you have yet to grab hold of along your own basic faith, I try to keep it simple, you should as well. If I’m not perfect, at least my heart strives to be, that’s all I can do and be, will let God fill in the rest of where I’m lacking. Again, I forgive you, peace be with you.
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elvisman
Guest
The "legalist manner" of my view of the Catholic faith?
**Also - which “certain truths” do I "have yet to grab hold of along your own basic faith"?
Please enlighten me.
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elvisman
Guest
If your religious affiliation is "of truth" - then you must be Catholic.
You and prodigalson12 seem to think that God’s truth is smeared like butter over all religions.
Unfortunately, you have both fallen victim to relativism - "my truth vs. your truth". Truth is truth - there is nothing else that qualifies, my confused friend.
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prodigalson12
Guest
I’ll give you an example elvis, and still you not only mock me, you add insult and bear false witness to boot.
You mention that it is mandatory to go to mass every sunday, yet going to mass on a Saturday fufils obligation within that element. You mention a 12th century edict, and taking it within direct context, anybody that misses mass because they have to work, have other obligations such as having to be in the hospital, or for what ever reason not included within that 12th century text, they too are in grave mortal sin.
You see what I mean here, I can’t explain it further along that matter.
When I mention being Catholic and Protestant, the context itself if beyond your understanding, your eyes are so closed, your ears so deaf, it’s pointless even trying to explain, and you know what, I am NOT held accountable to you, only God. It’s my calling at this moment to be in both places at once, and just FYI, the Catholic church does not have an exclusive when it comes to having a deep, committed relationship with God nor an exclusive along the understanding of the trinity, nor an exclusive along salvation which means, if you are not a Catholic, you can still get into heaven, according to your stance, if you are not, you have no chance of it and this is a shame, truely it is.
You mention that it is mandatory to go to mass every sunday, yet going to mass on a Saturday fufils obligation within that element. You mention a 12th century edict, and taking it within direct context, anybody that misses mass because they have to work, have other obligations such as having to be in the hospital, or for what ever reason not included within that 12th century text, they too are in grave mortal sin.
You see what I mean here, I can’t explain it further along that matter.
When I mention being Catholic and Protestant, the context itself if beyond your understanding, your eyes are so closed, your ears so deaf, it’s pointless even trying to explain, and you know what, I am NOT held accountable to you, only God. It’s my calling at this moment to be in both places at once, and just FYI, the Catholic church does not have an exclusive when it comes to having a deep, committed relationship with God nor an exclusive along the understanding of the trinity, nor an exclusive along salvation which means, if you are not a Catholic, you can still get into heaven, according to your stance, if you are not, you have no chance of it and this is a shame, truely it is.
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elvisman
Guest
The Saturday night Vigil Mass fulfills your Sunday obligation. When did I ever say it didn’t?
**The Catechism is very clear about missing Mass in cases of sickness and hospitalization, etc. **
As for working on Sunday - I don’t know of one person who has to miss Mass because of work. In most areas, there is a Saturday Vigil Mass and there are Masses spread throughout the day on Sunday. There are PLENTY of opportunities to attend. If your parish is inconvenient - go to another.
Your problem is that you identify yourself as “Catholic” - but your actions show that you are not.
**IF you were, you would know that the FULLNESS of the Gospel is found in the Church because the Church is the custodian of the Deposit of the Faith (1 Tim. 1:13-14) and is “the pillar and foundation of truth” (1 Tim. 3:15). You, therefore should have no need to find the truth elsewhere.
You still have yet to answer my questions. I truly believe it is because you can’t becuase you have watered down your faith with contradicting beliefs.
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mark_a
Guest
I feel badly for folks that feel the need to re-invent the wheel.
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prodigalson12
Guest
First off, the new mass itself is watering down, it’s getting worse and worse, more “politically correct”, less kneeling, less scripture, less hours of operation, less leadership, less everything and you just don’t see it at all. What is going on is appauling, the very nature of itself becoming weak and I just can’t stand by and be this obediant little non thinking slave to it, when it itself has come under attack, from without and within.
I stand for the last, you clearly the first, I am the least, you are the greatest, I am nowhere near along your level and scale of piosness, there is a reason for that, it’s because I know full well, no matter how “strict” I follow every single rule within today’s version of the Catholic church, none of it will save me, the only one that has that capacity is Christ. The church is in a sickened state these days, people are choosing others that are better suited to their itching ears, and even within it, people are fooling themselves into thinking they are on the up and up since they have fufilled their obligation. Take note, the last time you were in mass, were the prayers said in reverence and emotion or were they said out of duty, was what you were reciting something you actually thought about and felt, or were you simply spouting noise because it was pre-programmed.
When I stopped going to mass, upon my return, I realized, I too was only filling up space, but only to a point, there clearly was more to what was going on within my own heart, something the church doesn’t have a grasp upon these days, otherwise I would not have to stand alone on the matter.
Do I want to be like you, never, not in a million years. Are you a better Catholic then I, strictly from a legalist manner, I suppose, yet do I choose to berrate others, that’s not what the Holy Spirit directs me to do, then again, I am not going to accept these attacks on my character just because I don’t fit in with your views. I am not on the same journey as you, do not have the same Father as you, the more you speak, the more reinforcement as to your stance, the farther away from God you become. If you continue, you are digging your own hole deeper, and just FYI, the devil himself is quite pleased with how you are doing, especially since these attacks are against me personally. If you are what it means to be a good Catholic, I want nothing to do with the church, for it has become lost itself. Les though, you are not in any way representative of the church, so I have been ignoring most of what you say and writing it all off as rantings of someone that is mentally derranged, and in that context, I pray for you to get over your sickness…
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elvisman
Guest
Well, that was quite a rant - garbled and confused as it was.
You make some really ridiculous and unfounded accusations such as there being less Scripture in the Mass. Ummm . . . how so? Please enlighten me. If you feel irreverent during the Mass - maybe it’s you and your attitude. Maybe it’s because you have so watered-down your faith.
You are completely confused about what the Church is. The Church is the Body of Christ and he is the head. The Church is not sick - only individuals within it - and those who are abandoning it as you are. For the Church to be sick is for Christ himself to be sick - and that is not possible. Jesus identified his very self with the Church in Acts 9:4-5.
Your personal attacks against me are not only against forum rules, they display your un-Christ-like attitude towards people who don’t agree with you. I haven’t attacked your character once as you have mine.
You really should stop identifying yourself as a Catholic if you have such disgust with and are in rebellion with the Church. You stopped being a Catholic the minute you went elsewhere to be “fulfilled”.
Lastly - I pray to God that you are not profaning the Body and Blood of Jesus by receiving the Holy Eucharist in the Mass. It is only for Catholics who are in communion with the Church and are in a state of grace. That’s why it’s called, "Communion".
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humble_in_doubt
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gee wiz … you keep saying “I mean no offense to anyone.” I’m sorry buddy but you sound like a chick flick. Why the heck would you think that you offended anyone? Even if you did, why would you apologize for it?
Not for nothing, but if you say what you mean then the only reason to apologize would be if you had ill intent. At the same token, you’re on a Catholic forum. So disagreeing with Catholics in their space will offend people to some degree. They’ve been kind enough to provide this non-Catholic religions forum, so if they step on here they understand they will face opposition to their views. That’s why you only tend to find (in my very short experience here) truly devoted Catholics in this forum who generally have a decent grasp of the doctrines of their faith (it probably wouldn’t be a wise place for Catholics weak in faith or unlearned regarding their religion to visit).
I got hit for making an uncharitable remark about a week back (and it was an uncharitable remark). It’s a fine line … but I figure I’d rather get kicked off of a forum than temper my thoughts. There is a such thing as tact (and sometimes I deviate from my normal tactful approach in a debate). So tact is sometimes my failing. I guess I figure it’s always better to call it like I see it. They say the truth hurts, but it can’t hurt as much as staying in the dark does.
At any rate, you’re far less aggressive in your remarks than almost anyone else on here, so you shouldn’t constantly worry about offending people. We’re all grown ups here (I think
).
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Barb3
Guest
I can’t imagine why anyone would want to “church hop” – the only “church hopping” I do is at the next-door neighbor PARISH since some of their Mass times work better for me. During Lent they have a Noon Mass since the Parish is very close to a local Mall. Also on Saturday afternoon I like their 4:30 Mass instead of our 5:00 Mass in my Parish.
The most important thing for me is the Eucharist and many years ago when I made a one-day retreat regarding the Eucharist I made a promise to myself that I would receive Jesus each and every day.
For those who “church hop” the most important words of Jesus to me is “Thou art Peter and upon this Rock, I will build my Church” – the other most important words are “This is my Body --This is my Blood – Do this in remembrance of Me”. How can anyone get along without the Body and Blood of Jesus???
The most important thing for me is the Eucharist and many years ago when I made a one-day retreat regarding the Eucharist I made a promise to myself that I would receive Jesus each and every day.
For those who “church hop” the most important words of Jesus to me is “Thou art Peter and upon this Rock, I will build my Church” – the other most important words are “This is my Body --This is my Blood – Do this in remembrance of Me”. How can anyone get along without the Body and Blood of Jesus???
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humble_in_doubt
Guest
very easily
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