Why I go the extraordinary form of the Mass

[ProVobis]

Going to Mass, in whatever format, while having your spouse and children attending a different Mass, shows a significant problem.

Yes, but it’s better not going at all. Even in the pre-Vatican II church, we would go to different Masses on the same day in the same parish.

 

[Robert_Burns]

I want to clarify that I don’t always attend Mass without my family. Sometimes I go to the OF with them and, once a month or so, they come to the EF with me. I think my spouse is even more uncomfortable at the EF than I am at the OF. But we both want to worship together as a family so we do what it takes.

I meant no disrespect - I realize I am lucky in that regard.

 

[Robert_Burns]

I don’t think its true too. I wouldn’t consider myself lukewarm. Or maybe I am, I am just being biased. But I know I’m in a better state than where I was a few years ago.

I’m just saying, because the OF is more readily available, those so-called Sunday-only Catholics, or Christmas and Easter Catholics, would naturally go to OF Masses rather than seek out TLMs which are harder to find and more inconvenient to go to because of time and distance. Also the language barrier, if a lukewarm Catholic has the option to attend something he at least can understand, why would he choose to go to something that is in a foreign tongue. He’s not that interested in Mass to begin with, why bore himself more?

The “Language” part of your argument is misleading. Our Church is Universal. Anyone who goes to Latin Mass should take the time to buy a Missal which has the English translation side by side with the Latin. Furthermore , Latin Masses can be attended in every country in the world regardless of Culture and the Catholic immediately knows whats going on once he familiarizes himself with the Latin Missal. All you need to know is the Mass being offered and then the Mass is the Same no matter where in the world you are. Imagine a Man from the US who went to Spain and went to the OF Mass there. He would be completely lost. But if he went to the EF Mass - he would be right at home. Sure - you wouldnt understand the Sermon - but the Mass itself , which is why we go - would be essentially the same.

 

[floresco]

In the “why I prefer the EF” issue, there is a lot of misinformation and denigrating of another valid rite of the Mass in the Church, and I think it is essential to break the misconceptions. Many of the reasons for preferring the EF are valid in the sense that there’s no OF Mass locally that addresses the needs, but that’s not a flaw in the OF as much as in the application of it and that’s what in my opinion, some very vocal people fail to grasp…

In my first post, I explicitly acknowledged this and you didn’t even notice. You were so prepared to take what I was saying as an argument against the OF that you missed what I was really saying. I would be just fine with going to an OF Mass that had the attitude and practices I like. Unfortunately, these are even harder to find than an EF Mass. Whether this is a flaw in the OF is irrelevant to the question of where I attend Mass.

I fully recognize that the OF is all too often poorly executed. What I would like to see is the OF done with all the reverence and orthodoxy that our Lord deserves, and the EF remain in effect as a valid alternative based on personal choice and historical continuity. There is no need for those who prefer one or the other to put down those who do not share their preference. It is especially odious that those preferring the OF should somehow be portrayed as less pious or Catholic. That is neither charitable nor Catholic

I know that I wasn’t putting anybody down and I don’t recall seeing anyone else doing it in this thread either. I’m wondering if this is another case of seeing what you expect to see rather than reading what people are really writing.

 

[CradleCath]

I agree with CradleCath, this thread is meant to be a positive thread for posters to share their reasonings why they prefer the EF mass personally. It’s not meant to be a debate or comparison between the two which is why I’ve enjoyed reading this thread so much. Typically I (as OraLabradora) am quite avregated with all the arguing and bickering over mass one upmanship. This thread isn’t that though, it’s something else. Honestly I could equally participate in a thread discussing the reasons why I appreciate the OF mass and why I’m going to appreciate it even more with the new missal.

Thank you, THANK YOU!! And you given a good idea to those who “go to the Ordinary Form”. They could start a thread in the Liturgy forum where everyone could speak of what they love about the Novus Ordo. If they will do that, I PROMISE I will not post on that thread comparing the two Masses. WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THAT!!

Now, back to the real subject of this thread. I also love the fact that we, at the parish I attend, once again have the Prie-Dieu & candle stand before the statue of the Virgin. I love that custom, but last week when taking my 14 yr. old Grandson to his first TLM. & lighting a candle for my Brother who is ill, I had to really think to explain this to him. The Prayer I prayed to the Blessed Virgin & St. Jude asking their intercession for both physical & spiritual help for Frank…this he understood, the SYMBOLISM of the candle he didn’t quite get.

So, I told him in the lighting of candles we remember and truly live the words of Our Lord: “I am the Light of the World.” In the lighting of candles we not only pray, but our prayers become smaller symbols of the One Light of Christ. In burning prayer candles, our prayers rise up to Heaven day and night; And to end the conversation, I added that prayer candles bring Catholics great solace, as they know that as long as the candle burns, their prayers are still alive & ascending to heaven.
The lighting of candles & the ringing of the bells…from the Mass bells, to the Angelus Bell, to bells that signify a wedding or funeral…these have has been part of Catholicism since the time of the early martyrs. Though these are simply pious customs, they are part of his heritage…part of Catholicism throughout the ages. I don’t want him to miss out on something that could bring him much comfort during his life.

Does anyone have any ideas about how I could have explained this to him better. (BTW., I had my personal missal & he had the missalette distributed by the parish. While, I know he has yet to understand much…I could see that he was AMAZED. He has asked to go again, “sometime”. We’ll be patient."

 

[CradleCath]

Well, a forum is to debate and discuss. Nobody ever pretended that it was a mutual self-congratulation society.

In the “why I prefer the EF” issue, there is a lot of misinformation and denigrating of another valid rite of the Mass in the Church, and I think it is essential to break the misconceptions. Many of the reasons for preferring the EF are valid in the sense that there’s no OF Mass locally that addresses the needs, but that’s not a flaw in the OF as much as in the application of it and that’s what in my opinion, some very vocal people fail to grasp.

I fully recognize that the OF is all too often poorly executed. What I would like to see is the OF done with all the reverence and orthodoxy that our Lord deserves, and the EF remain in effect as a valid alternative based on personal choice and historical continuity. There is no need for those who prefer one or the other to put down those who do not share their preference. It is especially odious that those preferring the OF should somehow be portrayed as less pious or Catholic. That is neither charitable nor Catholic.

Sorry, but this if off topic!!

 

[OraLabora]

In my first post, I explicitly acknowledged this and you didn’t even notice. You were so prepared to take what I was saying as an argument against the OF that you missed what I was really saying. I would be just fine with going to an OF Mass that had the attitude and practices I like. Unfortunately, these are even harder to find than an EF Mass. Whether this is a flaw in the OF is irrelevant to the question of where I attend Mass.

You did say, after proposing why you prefer the EF because of things you find in the OF: “Does saying these things mean that I am denigrating the OF? Perhaps some people think so. However, that is not my intention. I am describing my experience”.

So forgive me for being confused here. You are stating that you prefer the EF because there is no questionable theology (implying that it is present in the OF). Then you say you can receive communion the way you prefer (implying you can’t in the OF). Then you say you aren’t faced with immodest clothing (implying you are in the OF).

So while it is reasonable to make and debate those assertions, isn’t it then a little disingenuous to then state “Does saying these things mean I am denigrating the OF?” ?Because if not directly, by implication you are saying the OF is flawed and thus are denigrating it. Particularly odious is the issue of the theology, the others being mainly issues of aesthetics and preference and I too would gravitate to a Mass where proper reverence were shown.

But the “theology” of the OF is fully approved by the Vatican and is thus valid. To state you are facing flawed theology in the OF is indeed not only denigrating the OF, but also leveling serious charges at the Church herself who continues, through her hierarchy, to maintain the OF as a fully valid form of the Mass for the Roman Rite. So is your issue with “questionable theology” directed at the theology of the OF itself, or towards liturgical abuses that themselves are questionable theology? The latter I will concede is an issue in many places where the OF is said. The former is a far more serious assertion, and one that made me stand up and take note of your final statement in your OP, realizing that it appeared to be an inconsistency.

 

[Victorious]

But the “theology” of the OF is fully approved by the Vatican and is thus valid. To state you are facing flawed theology in the OF is indeed not only denigrating the OF, but also leveling serious charges at the Church herself who continues, through her hierarchy, to maintain the OF as a fully valid form of the Mass for the Roman Rite.

Well, this is a derailment of the thread, but it needs a response. To say that a rite is flawed is not an attack either on its validity or on the Church. If we didn’t recognize the Novus Ordo as valid, we wouldn’t even reach the question of its flaws. It is possible for an act to be valid yet flawed; and when there is an available alternative that is not flawed, or at least has fewer flaws, it is perfectly legitimate (a) to point out the flaws of the former, in the interests of truth, and (b) to prefer the latter.

So we are not nuts; we are not schismatics; and it would be nice if the attempts to twist a preference for the usus antiquior into an act of contempt and disobedience would cease.

 

[kamaan]

usus antiquior

into an act of contempt and disobedience would cease.

Agreed!

 

[OraLabora]

So we are not nuts; we are not schismatics; and it would be nice if the attempts to twist a preference for the usus antiquior into an act of contempt and disobedience would cease.

Likewise the other way around.

And a little intellectual honesty too would be nice. Saying “I’m not trying to denigrate the OF” after just doing so, doesn’t strike me as being on the level unless I misread something in the OP.

 

[OraLabora]

Sorry, but this if off topic!!

No it’s not.

The OP made some serious assertions about the OF. He went way beyond just saying “I prefer the EF because it’s nicer” to implying that the OF’s theology was flawed.

Worse, he stated after doing so “I’m not trying to denigrate the OF”, which strikes me as more than a little disingenuous.

I can appreciate the preference for the EF. What I don’t appreciate is the slagging of a valid form of the Roman Rite. Slag its liturgical abuses if you must… in fact you should slag its liturgical abuses for they are many and serious, and I can understand someone who would leave the OF to attend the EF if, in his or her area, the OF was a liturgical disaster. I know I would. I can’t because there’s no EF Mass within reasonable driving distance, but fortunately I have a very reverent OF Mass instead. I also know I would attend a reverent, liturgically-sound and well done OF Mass instead of a poorly done EF Mass too. But none of that has to do with the validity or theological soundness of either form.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The “Language” part of your argument is misleading. Our Church is Universal. Anyone who goes to Latin Mass should take the time to buy a Missal which has the English translation side by side with the Latin. Furthermore , Latin Masses can be attended in every country in the world regardless of Culture and the Catholic immediately knows whats going on once he familiarizes himself with the Latin Missal. All you need to know is the Mass being offered and then the Mass is the Same no matter where in the world you are. Imagine a Man from the US who went to Spain and went to the OF Mass there. He would be completely lost. But if he went to the EF Mass - he would be right at home. Sure - you wouldnt understand the Sermon - but the Mass itself , which is why we go - would be essentially the same.

It is not misleading. I’m speaking from the perspective of a Catholic who’s devotion to the faith is less than where it should be. To tell you the truth, many Catholics today are unaware that Latin is the universal Language of the Latin Church. Many are even unaware there is a Traditional Latin Mass. Fact is, those who are lukewarm to the faith are either ill informed, or doesn’t care to get informed themselves. Thats just the fact of life. We can’t expect everyone to have the same level of knowledge in anything.

 

[Victorious]

And a little intellectual honesty too would be nice. Saying “I’m not trying to denigrate the OF” after just doing so, doesn’t strike me as being on the level unless I misread something in the OP.

You did miss something. The OP was trying to start a thread about the TLM. Others came in (as they inevitably will) and started accusing him of badmouthing the Novus Ordo.

Plus: the use of the word “denigrate” is an overreaction. To point out the flaws in the Novus Ordo is not “denigrating” when those flaws really exist. Nor is it an attack on the validity of the Novus Ordo. If the Novus Ordo were an invalid rite where nothing happens, it would make no sense to compare the relative merits of it and the TLM (which, again, was not the point of the thread).

 

[ProVobis]

It is not misleading. I’m speaking from the perspective of a Catholic who’s devotion to the faith is less than where it should be.

I agree with you. The language makes a lot of difference. For example, Thy, Thou, Thee, Thine have a different appeal than you, yours, and your. Sound more prayerful and a lot less confrontational as well.

To tell you the truth, many Catholics today are unaware that Latin is the universal Language of the Latin Church. Many are even unaware there is a Traditional Latin Mass. Fact is, those who are lukewarm to the faith are either ill informed, or doesn’t care to get informed themselves. Thats just the fact of life. We can’t expect everyone to have the same level of knowledge in anything.

This is also true. But we can’t fault those who were never told about these either.

 

[Kardinal]

This seems a strange response to a post in which I said:The things that irritate and distract me are not intrinsic parts of the OF. It is theoretically possible for the Mass to be celebrated without these things. In practice, however, I have to drive even farther to get to an OF like that than I do to get to the EF.

Or perhaps you are agreeing with me and I have misunderstood.

Floresco,

I clicked on this thread thinking it would be another rant about how inadequate the Ordinary Form is. I was heartened and encouraged by your humility, and totally understand your difficulties with it.

I don’t have the same difficulties focusing in the midst of some of the distractions some of the rest of the laity present us at Mass, but I understand that you do, and attending an EF mass where they are not present seems an eminently reasonable and wise thing to do.

I was not so encouraged by the comments of some others, though.

 

[CradleCath]

QUOTE=OraLabora;6987933]No it’s not.

Yes, you ARE off topic.

The OP made some serious assertions about the OF. He went way beyond just saying “I prefer the EF because it’s nicer” to implying that the OF’s theology was flawed.
Worse, he stated after doing so “I’m not trying to denigrate the OF”, which strikes me as more than a little disingenuous.I can appreciate the preference for the EF.

In that case, this is a personal argument with the OP. So why not take it to private mail, rather than derail a thread in which myself & others would like to give our answer as to “Why we go to the Extraordinary form of the Mass”. If you can’t do this, I think this thread will be the final proof that Catholics who attend the TLM. will be persecuted on Catholic Answers.

Now, do you have any ideas about what I can tell my Grandson, who questioned the custom of lighting prayer candles after Mass? If so, I’d love to hear them.

 

[Victorious]

Now, do you have any ideas about what I can tell my Grandson, who questioned the custom of lighting prayer candles after Mass? If so, I’d love to hear them.

I remember an old catechism from my childhood that explained the sanctuary lamp as follows: it said that the flame there takes the place of our hearts. I think what it meant was that we burn the lamp as a sign of our desire for our hearts and spirits to dwell there with Jesus, even though physically, we cannot be there all the time. Not exactly the same as prayer candles, but maybe that will give you some ideas.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I agree with you. The language makes a lot of difference. For example, Thy, Thou, Thee, Thine have a different appeal than you, yours, and your. Sound more prayerful and a lot less confrontational as well.

This is also true. But we can’t fault those who were never told about these either.

Not just that. But like I said, if a person is already lukewarm to the faith as it is, why would he choose a Latin Mass which he wouldn’t understand at all (regardless if its OF or EF) over a Mass in his language? Its like asking a non-afficionado of Japanese anime to labor through a show in original Japanese with subtitles, when they can easily watch the movie dubbed in english (or their local language, if available).

 

[Momofmyangels]

So, I told him in the lighting of candles we remember and truly live the words of Our Lord: “I am the Light of the World.” In the lighting of candles we not only pray, but our prayers become smaller symbols of the One Light of Christ. In burning prayer candles, our prayers rise up to Heaven day and night; And to end the conversation, I added that prayer candles bring Catholics great solace, as they know that as long as the candle burns, their prayers are still alive & ascending to heaven.
The lighting of candles & the ringing of the bells…from the Mass bells, to the Angelus Bell, to bells that signify a wedding or funeral…these have has been part of Catholicism since the time of the early martyrs. Though these are simply pious customs, they are part of his heritage…part of Catholicism throughout the ages. I don’t want him to miss out on something that could bring him much comfort during his life.

Does anyone have any ideas about how I could have explained this to him better. (BTW., I had my personal missal & he had the missalette distributed by the parish. While, I know he has yet to understand much…I could see that he was AMAZED. He has asked to go again, “sometime”. We’ll be patient."

CradleCath,

I recently had this conversation with my daughter when I lit a vigil light for my aunt who was dying of brain cancer. I think your explanation was excellent. Even if he did not fully understand the symbolism, he was a part of it and the seed was planted. Perhaps in his future he will remember this lovely and symbolic custom and he will draw on it to bring him solace in time of need.

 

[CradleCath]

Originally Posted by Victorious
So we are not nuts; we are not schismatics; and it would be nice if the attempts to twist a preference for the usus antiquior into an act of contempt and disobedience would cease.

In answer you post:

Likewise the other way around.

No problem. This thread’s purpose is not to “denigrate” the Novus Ordo.

And a little intellectual honesty too would be nice. Saying “I’m not trying to denigrate the OF” after just doing so, doesn’t strike me as being on the level unless I misread something in the OP.