Why I reject fatima

[georget]

Precisely. Especially when numerous people all report seeing different things. The power of suggestion is a very powerful thing. So I guess all those people who see the virgin Mary in their toast have experienced a genuine miracle
I know an old lady at my parish who claims to see her deceased husband and relatives during mass. But she is clearly not normal, you can tell shes highly suggestable and just plain mentally ill. She has an equally wierd old lady friend who claims to be a " sensitive" and that once her dead dog came back to visit her. . I mean COME ON, are you serious? The atheists are right to demand evidence. Look, I think that many times people who claim to have visions are just very imaginitive and depressed and disconnected from life. They crave excitement so they imagine talking to saints and angels with fire and brimstone messages.

“Those who have eyes will see”.
You have told us what you see when you look at those elderly women in your parish. Perhaps you should do some soul searching in regard to your own eyes and less about what you think of what other folks saw at Fatima all those years ago.

 

[robwar]

What a terrible thing to say about your elderly fellow parishioners. You are a cynical person. Instead of making fun of this poor soul, perhaps you should get to know her. Her husband is dead after all. She could probably use someone to talk to.

Amen!

 

[Mark121359]

Some people can have the Truth standing right in front of them, and they still wouldn’t believe. Jesus, God Himself, raised people from the dead, gave sight to the blind, healed lepers, threw out demons, and yet the Pharisees said of Him, “It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” One thing needs to be said. When it comes to judging apparitions, one of the first things the Church looks into is the seers themselves. Do a little research into the lives of Lucia Santos, and Jacinta and Francisco Marto. When you consider how young they were at the time of the apparitions; 10, 7, and 9 respectively, and then read about the profound impact Our Lady had on them, it puts things in their proper perspective. These children’s lives changed dramatically! They lived extremely holy lives! Fr. Andrew Apostoli’s book Fatima For Today is a very good book on the subject. He is considered one of the leading experts on the Fatima Apparitions. These pages here will give you some good insight into the lives of these children. Two of them (Jacinta and Francisco Marto) were beatified May 13, 2000.

Peace, Mark

 

[JackVk]

To the OP:

In some ways, I sympathize with you. When I was first getting into the Catholic faith, I developed a strong devotion to Fatima. I frequented Fatima-centered websites like America Needs Fatima and the Society for Preservation of Tradition, Family, and Property.

Today, I am fully consecrated to Mary, and almost never go a day without a rosary. I don’t wholly reject Fatima; I’m skeptical but open-minded about it (same with Medjugorje). But what drove me away from Fatima devotion was the devotees themselves. They give me the creeps, and many of them seem to be doomsday cults.

For example, the aforementioned TFP (America Needs Fatima is an arm of TFP) once wrote a blog post that said wearing jeans promotes socialism. That was my first hint that they probably don’t have both oars in the water.

Other than that, I was constantly getting panic-ridden emails and petition requests against blasphemous plays, or some company supporting abortion or gay “marriage”, etc. Eighteenish months of stewing over such things is spiritually grueling and can lead to fear and despair. You can only be outraged for so long (those were my community college days; I’m 22 and, when I was 18-19, I seemed to have gotten a lot more gray hairs. Coincidence? )

Also, a lot of alleged apparitions, IMHO, seem to just be Fatima wannabes, namely Garbandal (a rejected apparition). I could be wrong, though. I just think it’s a good idea to “test everything and retain what is good”.

Also, has anyone seen The Thirteenth Day? That movie also turned me off to Fatima in some ways. The acting is lousy and the content is dark and depressing.

 

[Hodegetria]

Unfounded rejection. Based on misunderstanding and misjudgment of events and the Theology involved.

Our Lady of Fatima led and leads people to God. Oh and do you know that Saint Paul in his letters pointed to himself? Told others to imitate him! Why - for the sake of Jesus. It is GOD who wished to further attention to the Mother of Jesus - for the sake of helping others to more purely love God…to stop living in sin but respond to God more like the heart of Mary -which always said yes to God.

And that a persons Father allows something that Mother does not - can be quite sound theology and practice…

The miracle of the Sun dried up the rain soaked ground…and was seen by those who only came to mock the children…not in search of a miracle…

And while one is not obliged to accept a private revelation - one ought to take care what one says about one that has such high approval of the Church …Popes and all.

I will go with the judgement of the Popes …including St. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI (brilliant men within the Office of Peter -both brilliance and authority and holiness).

Yes, this.

The Church approved it, so I believe it. I don’t base my entire religious life on apparitions, but the ones that were approved, eleven so far, I believe them. I don’t need to conduct my own investigation, the Church has done it and She has much more information than we will ever have access to, including the so-called secrets. Also, Fatima has produced two saints: Jacinta and Francisco Marto and I have no doubt Lucia will also be proclaimed a saint.

You’re not obliged to believe apparitions anyway, as everything needed for salvation has already been revealed…so why the hostility?

 

[Hodegetria]

To the OP:

In some ways, I sympathize with you. When I was first getting into the Catholic faith, I developed a strong devotion to Fatima. I frequented Fatima-centered websites like America Needs Fatima and the Society for Preservation of Tradition, Family, and Property.

Today, I am fully consecrated to Mary, and almost never go a day without a rosary. I don’t wholly reject Fatima; I’m skeptical but open-minded about it (same with Medjugorje). But what drove me away from Fatima devotion was the devotees themselves. They give me the creeps, and many of them seem to be doomsday cults.

For example, the aforementioned TFP (America Needs Fatima is an arm of TFP) once wrote a blog post that said wearing jeans promotes socialism. That was my first hint that they probably don’t have both oars in the water. Other than that, I was constantly getting panic-ridden emails, sob stories, and petition requests against blasphemous plays, or some company supporting abortion or gay “marriage”, etc. Eighteenish months of stewing over such things is spiritually grueling and can lead to fear and despair.

Also, a lot of alleged apparitions, IMHO, seem to just be Fatima wannabes, namely Garbandal (a rejected apparition). I could be wrong, though. I just think it’s a good idea to “test everything and retain what is good”.

Also, has anyone seen The Thirteenth Day? That movie also turned me off to Fatima in some ways. The acting is lousy and the content is dark and depressing.

Good point, I didn’t see this before my post, so sorry for double posting… But, yes, there are some organizations flying under the banner of Fatima that have some strange ideas and stranger prophecies.

Doom and gloom was not Our Lady’s message.

These fringe elements are also responsible for all the stirring up of controversy over the secrets and supposed conspiracies-- it is just divisive. To the OP, please make sure you’re reading Church approved materials and not the conspiracy theorist’s stories. I don’t know what their motives are, but I know who’s behind division in our Church.

 

[LightBound]

To the OP:

In some ways, I sympathize with you. When I was first getting into the Catholic faith, I developed a strong devotion to Fatima. I frequented Fatima-centered websites like America Needs Fatima and the Society for Preservation of Tradition, Family, and Property.

Today, I am fully consecrated to Mary, and almost never go a day without a rosary. I don’t wholly reject Fatima; I’m skeptical but open-minded about it (same with Medjugorje). But what drove me away from Fatima devotion was the devotees themselves. They give me the creeps, and many of them seem to be doomsday cults.

For example, the aforementioned TFP (America Needs Fatima is an arm of TFP) once wrote a blog post that said wearing jeans promotes socialism. That was my first hint that they probably don’t have both oars in the water. Other than that, I was constantly getting panic-ridden emails, sob stories, and petition requests against blasphemous plays, or some company supporting abortion or gay “marriage”, etc. Eighteenish months of stewing over such things is spiritually grueling and can lead to fear and despair.

Also, a lot of alleged apparitions, IMHO, seem to just be Fatima wannabes, namely Garbandal (a rejected apparition). I could be wrong, though. I just think it’s a good idea to “test everything and retain what is good”.

Also, has anyone seen The Thirteenth Day? That movie also turned me off to Fatima in some ways. The acting is lousy and the content is dark and depressing.

Precisely. It is not the actual devotion to the approved**** portions of an approved apparition, it’s what some devotees do to parts that were never part of what the Church approved that is an absolute turn-off and red flag. You have things that were supposedly said (but not found on the Vatican’s official document about Fatima) taking on a life of its own. People seem to be more bonded to what was supposedly said in an apparition than what the Church says or teaches about things. That’s a warning sign right there. Nothing wrong with having a strong devotion to Fatima or any other approved apparition…but please don’t follow things based on what was supposedly** said and promote those to others.

 

[keithr]

Some people in nearby villages also reported seeing the sun’s movements. Such people did not look at the sun because a little girl admonished them to do so. Their eyes were attracted to the sun precisely because of the unusual activity of the sun itself.

It is also a miracle that with so many thousands of people gazing directly at the sun, there was not a single report of anyone’s vision being damaged.

You point out that people gave differing accounts as to what they saw. This is true. While some saw the sun “dancing” in sky, a few perceived the sun to be hurling itself downward toward earth in such a way as to cause them fear. I will never forget an old book on Fatima my grandmother kept in her library, with photos inside. One showed several peasants in a field gazing skyward. A man in the center was reeling backward – almost to the point of falling – and he had a real look of real astonishment if not terror in his eyes. Meanwhile, the women flanking him were simply looking upward with calm fascination.

I have no problem with the fact that witnesses perceived the phenomenon differently. Perhaps God gave tp individuals to see in the sun, that which most befitted their own spiritual states. An omniscient God can do such things.

 

[JackVk]

Good point, I didn’t see this before my post, so sorry for double posting… But, yes, there are some organizations flying under the banner of Fatima that have some strange ideas and stranger prophecies.

Doom and gloom was not Our Lady’s message.

These fringe elements are also responsible for all the stirring up of controversy over the secrets and supposed conspiracies-- it is just divisive. To the OP, please make sure you’re reading Church approved materials and not the conspiracy theorist’s stories. I don’t know what their motives are, but I know who’s behind division in our Church.

That’s another thing. You also get people claiming to know the Third Secret when Sister Lucia said that Pope John Paul II had fulfilled it. All the talk about “secrets” reeks of Gnosticism. If saying you know more about an apparition than the seer isn’t being pretentious, I don’t know what is.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Yes, im familliar with the second part of the alleged miracle. I concede that that really is hard to explain. But dont you suppose it could be just added imbellishment later on when they were retelling the story? The sun part is totally unconvincing because it can be explained by the fact that if you stare into the sun long enough youre going to see those rainbow colors and the sun will appear to zigzag. Go ahead, try staring into your flourescent light and youll see that it leaves an imprint on your retinas for some time afterwards. Now why would the virgin Mary perform such a dubious miracle. Usually when a miracle is performed there is no question that something supernatural occured. Contrast fatima with a REAL marian apparition like that of st bernadette. The blessed virgin told her the location of a spring that she couldn’t have possibly known. And also she revealed to her two articles of faith that would later become dogmas ( immaculate conception). Fatima is nothing of the sort. Its just a group of bored people eager for a miracle who misinterpreted natural phenomena for something supernatural. Even if the ground somehow dried that still doesnt give evidence for any solar activity and its still suspicious that the secrets were revealed AFTER they happened.

You either accept it or you don’t. For a start why would 70,000 people want to stare at the sun? Secondly if you stare at the sun for more than ten seconds, you’ll start to permanently damage your eye sight. This means there should have been 70,000 people with eye problems, but there were no reports of that. One of the things that was stated was that people could stare at the sun and it didn’t hurt. That’s odd in itself.

ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/October.htm

Fr. Ignacio Lorenco (Alburitel, 11 miles away):

I was only nine years old at this time, and I went to the local village school. At about midday we were surprised by the shouts and cries of some men and women who were passing in the street in front of the school. The teacher, a good, pious woman, though nervous and impressionable, was the first to run into the road, with the children after her.

Outside, the people were shouting and weeping and pointing to the sun, ignoring the agitated questions of the schoolmistress. It was the great Miracle, which one could see quite distinctly from the top of the hill where my village was situated—the Miracle of the sun, accompanied by all its extraordinary phenomena.

I feel incapable of describing what I saw and felt.** I looked fixedly at the sun**, which seemed pale and did not hurt the eyes. Looking like a ball of snow revolving on itself, it suddenly seemed to come down in a zigzag, menacing the earth. Terrified, I ran and hid myself among the people, who were weeping and expecting the end of the world at any moment.

Near us was an unbeliever who had spent the morning mocking at the simpletons who had gone off to Fátima just to see an ordinary girl. He now seemed to be paralyzed, his eyes fixed on the sun. Afterwards he trembled from head to foot and lifting up his arms fell on his knees in the mud, crying out to our Lady.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Precisely. Especially when numerous people all report seeing different things. The power of suggestion is a very powerful thing. So I guess all those people who see the virgin Mary in their toast have experienced a genuine miracle
I know an old lady at my parish who claims to see her deceased husband and relatives during mass. But she is clearly not normal, you can tell shes highly suggestable and just plain mentally ill. She has an equally wierd old lady friend who claims to be a " sensitive" and that once her dead dog came back to visit her. . I mean COME ON, are you serious? The atheists are right to demand evidence. Look, I think that many times people who claim to have visions are just very imaginitive and depressed and disconnected from life. They crave excitement so they imagine talking to saints and angels with fire and brimstone messages.

If you don’t believe in the supernatural, how can you even be a* Catholic*? *Are *YOU serious? What does faith mean to you? What faith is needed when you have evidence for something?

You claim it is right for atheists to demand evidence of something that is supernatural- but one cannot do that. If it were explainable, it would not be supernatural. You can, and should, explain why one believes something is from God. There are reasons for believing as St. Paul puts it.> 1 Peter 3:15 There are such things as false prophets, false visions, etc too. It is also right and just to look for truth. It doesn’t bother me that you are seeking answers for your questions, but I think some of the things you’ve said are rude…

By the way, I also share concerns about Fatima, (different concerns than what you have expressed) but you have come on here* seemingly* to have a fight. I ask you what was your purpose in posting? What is your beef?

You apologized earlier about what you said in an earlier post in this thread, but you lacked the wisdom with your first post to know that for some, these things are sacred. Holy Scripture tells us to respect those who consider some things sacred. Jesus himself says not to pull up the wheat with the tares (weeds) growing together… that command considers those who hoax and make up fabrications, heresies, etc. God will deal with us all in judgement. The church teaches us that we are free to believe or disbelieve in the apparitions it approves.

 

[JackVk]

If you don’t believe in the supernatural, how can you even be a* Catholic*? *Are *YOU **serious? What does faith mean to you? What faith is needed when you have evidence for something?

You claim it is right for atheists to demand evidence of something that is supernatural- but one cannot do that. If it were explainable, it would not be supernatural. You can, and should, explain why one believes something is from God. There are reasons for believing as St. Paul puts it.> 1 Peter 3:15 There are such things as false prophets, false visions, etc too. It is also right and just to look for truth. It doesn’t bother me that you are seeking answers for your questions, but I think some of the things you’ve said are rude…

By the way, I also share concerns about Fatima, (different concerns than what you have expressed) but you have come on here* seemingly* to have a fight. I ask you what was your purpose in posting? What is your beef?

You apologized earlier about what you said in an earlier post in this thread, but you lacked the wisdom with your first post to know that for some, these things are sacred. Holy Scripture tells us to respect those who consider some things sacred. Jesus himself says not to pull up the wheat with the tares (weeds) growing together… that command considers those who hoax and make up fabrications, heresies, etc. God will deal with us all in judgement. The church teaches us that we are free to believe or disbelieve in the apparitions it approves.

He said that he accepts apparitions like Lourdes. And just because God allows the frauds and charlatans and crazy people doesn’t mean we shouldn’t gently advise others to avoid uncritical acceptance of their claims. “Test everything; retain what is good”.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

To the OP:

In some ways, I sympathize with you. When I was first getting into the Catholic faith, I developed a strong devotion to Fatima. I frequented Fatima-centered websites like America Needs Fatima and the Society for Preservation of Tradition, Family, and Property.

Today, I am fully consecrated to Mary, and almost never go a day without a rosary. I don’t wholly reject Fatima; I’m skeptical but open-minded about it (same with Medjugorje). But what drove me away from Fatima devotion was the devotees themselves. They give me the creeps, and many of them seem to be doomsday cults.

For example, the aforementioned TFP (America Needs Fatima is an arm of TFP) once wrote a blog post that said wearing jeans promotes socialism. That was my first hint that they probably don’t have both oars in the water.

Other than that, I was constantly getting panic-ridden emails and petition requests against blasphemous plays, or some company supporting abortion or gay “marriage”, etc. Eighteenish months of stewing over such things is spiritually grueling and can lead to fear and despair. You can only be outraged for so long (those were my community college days; I’m 22 and, when I was 18-19, I seemed to have gotten a lot more gray hairs. Coincidence? )

Also, a lot of alleged apparitions, IMHO, seem to just be Fatima wannabes, namely Garbandal (a rejected apparition). I could be wrong, though. I just think it’s a good idea to “test everything and retain what is good”.

Also, has anyone seen The Thirteenth Day? That movie also turned me off to Fatima in some ways. The acting is lousy and the content is dark and depressing.

This is a good and useful post and I believe it adds to the discussion. I’m so glad you shared this with us. Thank you.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

He said that he accepts apparitions like Lourdes. And just because God allows the frauds and charlatans and crazy people doesn’t mean we shouldn’t gently advise others to avoid uncritical acceptance of their claims. “Test everything; retain what is good”.

I thought I made that same point in the body of my post? Maybe I forgot or edited it out by mistake. Anyway, I agree. Its very important.

 

[Volor]

To the OP:

But what drove me away from Fatima devotion was the devotees themselves. They give me the creeps, and many of them seem to be doomsday cults.

Also, a lot of alleged apparitions, IMHO, seem to just be Fatima wannabes, namely Garbandal (a rejected apparition). I could be wrong, though. I just think it’s a good idea to “test everything and retain what is good”.

Also, has anyone seen The Thirteenth Day? That movie also turned me off to Fatima in some ways. The acting is lousy and the content is dark and depressing.

JackVk - God bless you for your devotion, but I really don’t understand arguments like this. Surely there are many examples of exactly what you describe (PEOPLE who may take something too far, read too much into it, draw strange conclusions, etc.), but what does that have to do with the actual events themselves, not to mention the position of the Church? And do you not believe that there are innumerable people who have a “non-creepy” perspective on Fatima, for whom it has been a source to edify their faith? That is what Fatima is for me.

And what do other apparitions - “Fatima wannabes” - have to do with whether Fatima is worthy of belief or not? Satan masquerades as an angel of light… What better way to sow disbelief and confusion than to try and mimic Fatima?

And yes, I’ve seen The Thirteenth Day. I own the DVD as well as the documentary they made, Finding Fatima. I enjoyed both of them very much, and (FWIW) I think most of the Amazon reviewers disagree with you - it’s got a solid 4.5 star rating with 82 five star ratings and 3 one star ratings. Yes, it is dark at times. Wouldn’t a story about an Angel with a flaming sword crying “Pennance”, children seeing a vision of hell, and messages from the Virgin about punishment, war, sins, etc., be dark at times? At the same time there’s so much hope in the story of Fatima and I saw that in the movie as well.

 

[JackVk]

JackVk - God bless you for your devotion, but I really don’t understand arguments like this. Surely there are many examples of exactly what you describe (PEOPLE who may take something too far, read too much into it, draw strange conclusions, etc.), but what does that have to do with the actual events themselves, not to mention the position of the Church? And do you not believe that there are innumerable people who have a “non-creepy” perspective on Fatima, for whom it has been a source to edify their faith? That is what Fatima is for me.

And what do other apparitions - “Fatima wannabes” - have to do with whether Fatima is worthy of belief or not? Satan masquerades as an angel of light… What better way to sow disbelief and confusion than to try and mimic Fatima?

And yes, I’ve seen The Thirteenth Day. I own the DVD as well as the documentary they made, Finding Fatima. I enjoyed both of them very much, and (FWIW) I think most of the Amazon reviewers disagree with you - it’s got a solid 4.5 star rating with 82 five star ratings and 3 one star ratings. Yes, it is dark at times. Wouldn’t a story about an Angel with a flaming sword crying “Pennance”, children seeing a vision of hell, and messages from the Virgin about punishment, war, sins, etc., be dark at times? At the same time there’s so much hope in the story of Fatima and I saw that in the movie as well.

A lot of my statements were just my opinion. Yes, a lot of them are a tangent to Fatima itself. I have no reason to believe the eyewitnesses were lying. If we can believe what 12 guys saw 2000 years ago, then we can believe what 70,000 people saw 100 years ago (many of whom were atheists who had come out to mock the whole affair).

I was simply talking about devotion to Our Lady of Fatima. My skepticism lies not with the events themselves, but the wild and often baseless speculations about this, that, and the other thing. So, by association, I had to distance myself from Fatima (without distancing myself from Mary, of course).

Let’s put it this way: Fatima devotion got me into the culture wars, of which I now have PTSD. It gave me the impression that the world is royally fudged if I don’t say enough rosaries or do good enough penances. It made me scrupulous and constanly worried that the fate of the world depends on my actions.

 

[someperson555]

To the OP:

In some ways, I sympathize with you. When I was first getting into the Catholic faith, I developed a strong devotion to Fatima. I frequented Fatima-centered websites like America Needs Fatima and the Society for Preservation of Tradition, Family, and Property.

Today, I am fully consecrated to Mary, and almost never go a day without a rosary. I don’t wholly reject Fatima; I’m skeptical but open-minded about it (same with Medjugorje). But what drove me away from Fatima devotion was the devotees themselves. They give me the creeps, and many of them seem to be doomsday cults.

For example, the aforementioned TFP (America Needs Fatima is an arm of TFP) once wrote a blog post that said wearing jeans promotes socialism. That was my first hint that they probably don’t have both oars in the water.

Other than that, I was constantly getting panic-ridden emails and petition requests against blasphemous plays, or some company supporting abortion or gay “marriage”, etc. Eighteenish months of stewing over such things is spiritually grueling and can lead to fear and despair. You can only be outraged for so long (those were my community college days; I’m 22 and, when I was 18-19, I seemed to have gotten a lot more gray hairs. Coincidence? )

Also, a lot of alleged apparitions, IMHO, seem to just be Fatima wannabes, namely Garbandal (a rejected apparition). I could be wrong, though. I just think it’s a good idea to “test everything and retain what is good”.

Also, has anyone seen The Thirteenth Day? That movie also turned me off to Fatima in some ways. The acting is lousy and the content is dark and depressing.

Thank you.
This is similar to my experiences with fatima fanatics. It seems to me that these people crave the excitement of doomsday prophecies and they just cant wait for the day until all the unbelievers are thrown into hell and tortured in horrible ways for all eternity because they smoked some pot and said a few cuss words. Thats what all these people are like. They arent interested in hearing about Gods mercy or forgiveness. That would be boring! They want the juicy stuff like sinners being tortured and corruption in the church.

Although like you im keeping an open mind.

 

[JackVk]

Thank you.
This is similar to my experiences with fatima fanatics. It seems to me that these people crave the excitement of doomsday prophecies and they just cant wait for the day until all the unbelievers are thrown into hell and tortured in horrible ways for all eternity because they smoked some pot and said a few cuss words. Thats what all these people are like. They arent interested in hearing about Gods mercy or forgiveness. That would be boring! They want the juicy stuff like sinners being tortured and corruption in the church.

Although like you im keeping an open mind.

Another objection I have to Fatima is that Our Lady supposedly said wars are “God’s punishment for sin”. I find this statement very disconcerting, considering that that is precisely what the Westboro Baptist Church says (who, as we all know, are vitriolic Calvinists and anti-Catholics).

 

[Volor]

A lot of my statements were just my opinion. Yes, a lot of them are a tangent to Fatima itself. I have no reason to believe the eyewitnesses were lying. If we can believe what 12 guys saw 2000 years ago, then we can believe what 70,000 people saw 100 years ago (many of whom were atheists who had come out to mock the whole affair).

I was simply talking about devotion to Our Lady of Fatima. My skepticism lies not with the events themselves, but the wild and often baseless speculations about this, that, and the other thing. So, by association, I had to distance myself from Fatima (without distancing myself from Mary, of course).

Let’s put it this way: Fatima devotion got me into the culture wars, of which I now have PTSD. It gave me the impression that the world is royally fudged if I don’t say enough rosaries or do good enough penances. It made me scrupulous and constanly worried that the fate of the world depends on my actions.

Thank you for your clarification (not to mention charity in your reply - I tried to be careful in my previous post so that it not be taken as a personal attack). To be honest, I agree completely with everything you said in this post.

I’ll also be the first to admit that I’ve let myself (or my faith, more precisely) be swayed by people, or reactions, or public opinion. Many years ago there was a huge scandal in my area when the priest sex abuse issue broke wide open. It affected me so much that I stopped attending Mass and slowly drifted farther and farther away from the Church. Of course, that was about the worst mistake of my life and it was a long time before I was able to see the Church in a positive light in spite of some of its members.

I still shudder to think what would have happened, had I met with some fatal misfortune, before I was able to put things in perspective, make a good confession and return to the faith. For that reason, whenever I see examples of someone pointing to (how do I put this…) a reaction, rather than a source itself, to justify a point I get a little squirrely.

 

[JK61]

People keep questioning the OP’s motive. I don’t think the OP was trying to change anyone’s opinion he was just discussing his own concerns. Trying to belittle someone’s opinion will not persuade them. An open discussion on the merits of the apparition would be all that is needed. I hope the OP will take the advice of where to find more info and maybe find a new perspective. The OP is not wrong in his opinion…we do not have to believe the apparitions.