Yeah, these people have a very narrow and distorted view of the world and of history. Socialism is not a bad thing. In fact the early Christians were basically socialists. But these people mix religion with culture and tradition. That leads them to be blind to new ideas and scared of anything unfamiliar. The world is actually no better or worse now than it was a thousand years ago. There was always killing and slavery and sex slavery and homosexuality.
I don’t know what I said in my post that makes you think I equate the miracle at Fatima with seeing Mary in a piece of toast. And the experiences you mentioned are not even close to thousands of people witnessing the same vision.Precisely. Especially when numerous people all report seeing different things. The power of suggestion is a very powerful thing. So I guess all those people who see the virgin Mary in their toast have experienced a genuine miracle
I know an old lady at my parish who claims to see her deceased husband and relatives during mass. But she is clearly not normal, you can tell shes highly suggestable and just plain mentally ill. She has an equally wierd old lady friend who claims to be a " sensitive" and that once her dead dog came back to visit her.. I mean COME ON, are you serious? The atheists are right to demand evidence. Look, I think that many times people who claim to have visions are just very imaginitive and depressed and disconnected from life. They crave excitement so they imagine talking to saints and angels with fire and brimstone messages.
if this is true then i believe.
I’ll second this - I have this book and it is great!
I’ve stared at the sun when I was a child, and as far as I remember I saw no rainbows, just the image of the sun repeating itself in different points. Its the same if you look for some time at a lamp. When you move your eyes the lamp / sun moves as well. And no I don’t think that’s what people saw. I think they really witnessed something out of the ordinary.
eople_looking_miracle_sun.jpghttp://yourdivineinspirations.net/w...kimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Zeitun.gifThe supposed " miracle" itself wasnt very impressive. It can very easily be explained by non divine causes. I think it can be attributed to auto suggestion. I mean consider the fact that those over zealous spectators were WAITING for a miracle. And interestingly they only saw something AFTER lucia pointed at the Sun and said " look the sun".
The hypothesis of auto suggestion is further backed up by the fact that everyone saw something DIFFERENT. (Some saw nothing at all) that indicates that the alleged " miracle" was probably just mass hysteria.
Second, moving on to the supposed “secrets” . Isnt it suspicious that they were written down and revealed AFTER the events took place? ( ill get to the third “secret” later).
Heres what I think really happened at fatima and why. Lets take a look at Lucias personal and family life. People said that lucias father was overly religious to the point of being mentally ill. Furthermore it is also revealed that he had some dislike towards the local priest. And vice versa. So much so that they went to the parish in the neighboring town! Hmm dont you think it wouldve benefitted him if all of a sudden his daughter would recieve " messages" from the blessed virgin? Ill bet that he thought that would show that priest how “holy” his family is. Another suspicious thing is that lucias FATHER took her to the alleged apparition sites EVEN after her mother forbade it. The picture is coming together now, isn’t it?
So thus in conclusion I think fatima is a man made fabrication. But youre probably thinking why I posted this. Well I see a troubling trend among catholics to just blindly believe ANY claim of an apparition or miracle. Further more I dont think its good that theres so many versions of the virgin Mary. Theres only ONE virgin. No lady of akita, no lady of this and that. Second if you examine the alleged apparitions words at fatima they are quite alarming. The virgin Mary seems to repeatedly keep glorifying herself. “God wants to establish a devotion to MY heart”. She also never talks about leading people to God. It seems she wants people to trust in HER and not God. As for the third secret, remember the bible verse: " beware of false prophets, YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS" well the third secret has only caused discord in the church. It has only caused people to distrust the church. Usually all these apparitions claiming corruption of the church are very suspicious. YhThe REAL virgin Mary would never reveal information that is damaging to the church or that would harnm the faith of the faithful.
Whatever some people “saw”, it must have been in their mind. As we all know, the sun doesn’t move and the motion of the sun is caused by the earth rotating on its axis. Nothing has happened to the earth’s rotation and people on half the planet (the half which had daylight) didn’t notice anything unusual happening to the image of the sun.Having said that, my great grandmother was present at Fatima, and unlike when you look at the sun directly and your eyes start to hurt because it starts burning your retina (that’s why you don’t look into the sun through a telescope), her account was that it didn’t hurt at all, that when the clouds disappeared and Lucia said “Look at the sun” the sun started to move weirdly or “dancing” as you will find it over the internet. She was a religious person, thus she attributed it to God. Some people who she knew that were not all so convinced, became a lot more devout or even converted on the spot. And then there were the people who saw “Nothing” because well let’s be honest here. It suits them better.
Lol this is zeitoun not fatima. If you look at one of my earlier posts I say that I accept zeitoun and lordes. Why cant there be a picture like this of fatima?
Im on the fence about guadalupe and akita. Please understand im not trying to play the skeptic here. I just really think that we as Catholics should be ultra cautious before believing any claim of an apparition.
O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Thy mercy. Amen. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatima_Prayers
Ah! Valid point, valid point. Unclean spirits do not call us to holiness.
Our Lady never said the miracle would be seen by the entire daylight world… The Miracle was seen in Cova da Moura (Fátima) and some people report seeing the event from some miles away. I’m pretty sure if it was God’s Will he could make the sun movement visible in just a certain radius, since he is Almighty, Physics don’t have to apply. Likewise, those atheists that are waiting for a Biological / natural explanation for Jesus Ressurection are not going to get it. That is why it’s called a Miracle or a supernatural phenomenon.
The dancing sun at Fatima was an apparition for the benefit of the people there. It wasn’t seen on the Western Front. It was still miraculous on two counts - they all saw it and it wasn’t a mass hallucination. The other miraculous aspect was that people could stare fixedly at the sun and it didn’t hurt their eyes.
