Why I reject fatima

[Mark86]

I think when we get into exactly what the “Miracle of the Sun” was, it’s bound to be a forever mystery. “You had to be there” kind of thing. It is possible that the sun itself wasn’t the thing being affected, but perhaps certain people’s perception of it. That’s a possibility too.

It reminds me of what is recorded in the book of Joshua concerning how God supposedly “stopped the sun in the sky” during one of Joshua’s battles. Obviously, we know the sun doesn’t move. The earth moves. But did God really “stop the earth”? Or did he just slow the perception of time for Joshua and his armies? Was the day simply overcast so that it appeared to be longer? …etc. The fact is, not even the writer of the book of Joshua seems to have known what exactly happened, so the writer actually quotes an earlier source to describe the miracle of God “stopping the sun” (mentioned as the “Wars of the Lord scroll” or something like that), which was reportedly a poem anyways and all that said was “There was never a day like it…” Once again, it was kind of a “you had to be there” moment in time.

The fact is, we don’t know what exactly happened in either situation, and we probably will never know until we die. Something out of the ordinary occurred though, in both cases.

 

[Hans_W]

I think when we get into exactly what the “Miracle of the Sun” was, it’s bound to be a forever mystery. “You had to be there” kind of thing. It is possible that the sun itself wasn’t the thing being affected, but perhaps certain people’s perception of it. That’s a possibility too.

It reminds me of what is recorded in the book of Joshua concerning how God supposedly “stopped the sun in the sky” during one of Joshua’s battles. Obviously, we know the sun doesn’t move. The earth moves. But did God really “stop the earth”? Or did he just slow the perception of time for Joshua and his armies? Was the day simply overcast so that it appeared to be longer? …etc. The fact is, not even the writer of the book of Joshua seems to have known what exactly happened, so the writer actually quotes an earlier source to describe the miracle of God “stopping the sun” (mentioned as the “Wars of the Lord scroll” or something like that), which was reportedly a poem anyways and all that said was “There was never a day like it…” Once again, it was kind of a “you had to be there” moment in time.

The fact is, we don’t know what exactly happened in either situation, and we probably will never know until we die. Something out of the ordinary occurred though, in both cases.

Of course it is the visionary’s perception which is changed. I am thinking of Bernadette in Lourdes, a case which I have studied in great detail, only Bernadette could see her Lady, nobody else could. Was She really physically there, and was everybody else blinded?

 

[frumacat]

I admit that I do struggle with believing the more fantastical elements of Fatima. And you’re right; this series of apparitions has really struck a chord with a lot of the eschatological, uber-traditionalist zealots out there. I’m pretty torn. The thing that really separates Fatima from, say, Lourdes, to me is that it inspires fear and dread instead of faith, confidence and love. There is something beautiful and pure about the simplistic, short messages Bernadette was given by Our Lady; but the messages of Fatima- while I understand the perennial importance of amending our lives and praying for others- seem more fire and brimstoney.

I don’t know. …
I admit there are some details which prevent me from completely scrapping the fatima incident. Such as the dry ground and the effect it seemed to have on the children. I heard that they would refuse food because the vision of hell was so shocking to them.
But it just doesn’t add up for me. Why did the virgin Mary make everyone see different things. Surely she would have known that that would detract from the credibility of the account. Second, I remember early one morning I was walking to work and during my stroll I was admiring the sunrise. I was staring at the sun and guess what. I saw psychedelic rainbow colors like the people reported in fatima and as I stared longer the sun seemed to zigzag as I moved my eyes. So. Dont you think THATS what the spectators at fatima saw?

And I will say again the bible says: " beware of false prophets, you will know them by their fruits". Ask yourself, what are the fruits of fatima? More distrust and conspiracy theories about the church. It only fuels the fire for these ultra trad zealots to remain in their errors. Vatican 2 was a very GOOD and necessary thing. It clarified many of the church’s teaching s and therefore cleared up many misconceptions. Its funny how so many people say I should believe in fatima because the church said its ok yet those very same people vehemently attack Vatican 2. Im sorry but im going to take the word of the church over the words of a phantom any day. Its as the bible says: " if an angel should come down from heaven and teach something other than the word, let him be damned".

 

[Ed_Silvia]

Originally Posted by someperson555 Im sorry but im going to take the word of the church over the words of a phantom any day

You need to be careful. The Church’s words are, for almost 100 years, that The Fatima Apparitions are from God and contain nothing in contradiction to scripture and are worthy of belief by the faithful.

These words are not of a phantom.

Our Lady to the 10 year old Lucia “I will take Jacinta and Francisco shortly; but you will stay here for some time to come. Jesus wants to use you to make Me known and loved. ***He ***wishes to establish the devotion to My Immaculate Heart throughout the world. I promise salvation to whoever embraces it; these souls will be dear to God, like flowers put by Me to adorn his throne.”

 

[Memaw]

You need to be careful. The Church’s words are, for almost 100 years, that The Fatima Apparitions are from God and contain nothing in contradiction to scripture and are worthy of belief by the faithful.

These words are not of a phantom.

Our Lady to the 10 year old Lucia “I will take Jacinta and Francisco shortly; but you will stay here for some time to come. Jesus wants to use you to make Me known and loved. ***He ***wishes to establish the devotion to My Immaculate Heart throughout the world. I promise salvation to whoever embraces it; these souls will be dear to God, like flowers put by Me to adorn his throne.”

AND SHE DID !! God Bless, Memaw

 

[mamlukman]

I’ve only read a few pages of this conversation, but here’s my 2¢ worth.

As several people already said, Fatima, Lourdes, etc. are “worthy of belief”; they don’t contradict any Church teachings, and in fact confirm some of them. Some people get comfort from the idea. Good for them. I don’t want to interfere with their belief.

But for Catholics, this type of belief is not an article of faith. We are not required to believe in them. I personally don’t believe in these sorts of apparitions, nor do I believe in ghosts. There are several scholarly books on Marian apparitions at different periods in history. Usually there is something going on in the world–in the case of Lourdes, for example, France had recently come out of a very anti-clerical period in the Fr. Revolution and Napoleon. The French church was in need of some good publicity…I’m not saying it was staged or fraudulent, I’m just saying it was “convenient.” The same with various other saints in France at that time. But of course you could argue that God provided the saints at that time to help the church in France!

I visited Lourdes once, and it was just too much for me. Too many Italian peasant women daubing water from the sides of the grotto with handkerchiefs. I think the line between legitimate belief and superstition and / or magic is not always defined clearly. But as someone once said, “Who am I to judge?” I don’t know what’s in the hearts of the little Italian peasant ladies.

I don’t believe in it, but I don’t actively oppose or argue with those who do.

 

[Potato1237]

I think some people are just flat-out scared by things like this.

I sure as heck am. Some things in Fatima just don’t make sense to me.

 

[Potato1237]

You need to be careful. The Church’s words are, for almost 100 years, that The Fatima Apparitions are from God and contain nothing in contradiction to scripture and are worthy of belief by the faithful.

These words are not of a phantom.

Our Lady to the 10 year old Lucia “I will take Jacinta and Francisco shortly; but you will stay here for some time to come. Jesus wants to use you to make Me known and loved. ***He ***wishes to establish the devotion to My Immaculate Heart throughout the world. I promise salvation to whoever embraces it; these souls will be dear to God, like flowers put by Me to adorn his throne.”

I’m not trying to be skeptical, but demons are able to predict the future right? Why would Mary say that SHE would take the children and not that God would take them?

 

[Techno2000]

I’m not trying to be skeptical, but demons are able to predict the future right? Why would Mary say that SHE would take the children and not that God would take them?

The Devil can’t predict the future, and it’s you Garden Angel that takes you up to God when you die.

 

[Ed_Silvia]

I think it’s worth noting that Our Lady likens those who embrace Her Immaculate Heart to flowers,“like flowers put by Me to adorn His throne.”

The Angel of Peace beginning a year prior (1916) in preparation for the apparition of Our Lady taught the three child seers “The Little Way” of St. Terese “The little Flower,” Dr. of the Catholic Church. They had adopted a lifestyle incorporating a morning offering of their entire day’s thoughts, words & actions to God just like St Teressa taught her novices. St. Therese explains that “These flowers are every little sacrifice, every glance and word and the doing of the least of actions for love”